Chain lubricants - worlds biggest con!

[Will]

Forget all those 'fancy' chain lubes - they are a total waste of money and they damage your chain! :eek:

I use a very very thin grease or gear oil - it is much much cleaner than those nasty spray on waxes and the like. Also if applied carefully with a paint brush it hardly flings at all. :)

Will

[Scotty]

sounds liek evil scott oiler talk to me

[A Yerbury]

fairy liquid works wonders, is soft and gentle on the hands plus its the same shade of green as "scottoil" but a lot cheaper.

[Will]

fairy liquid works wonders, is soft and gentle on the hands plus its the same shade of green as "scottoil" but a lot cheaper.

Scottoilers - PAH - not for real bikers! :)

[Scotty]

yeah real bikers have chain failures every few 100 miles

doh that al be me then

[Will]

yeah real bikers have chain failures every few 100 miles

doh that al be me then

The down side to this thin oil thing is that you have to do it at least every 500 miles - but at least it gives me an excuse to get into the garage and escape from the family :lol:

P.S. do I gather that a snapped chain did that damage in the pic? :eek:

Will

[Scotty]

yup fortunatly it only hurt my bank ballance and not my leg
getting the finnal piece of me repare this weekend (fingers crossed) a new hugger
woooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[A Yerbury]

better still get the family to lube the bike chain for you! you get peace quiet and a slippery chain, they get a character building experience, everyone wins!

[Duncan]

Forget all those 'fancy' chain lubes - they are a total waste of money and they damage your chain! :eek:

I use a very very thin grease or gear oil - it is much much cleaner than those nasty spray on waxes and the like. Also if applied carefully with a paint brush it hardly flings at all. :)

Will


Will

I would like to think there is some technical argument behind this.

For years, chain lube manufacturers have spent loads of money on development and even more on advertising.....

Its no longer a case of removing a split link and boiling the chain in a can of lube once a month, what with O rings etc.

Its essential with an o ring chain to get oil past the O rings into the heart of the chain hence the reason why the lube is like penetrating fluid when first applied. It then sets to become anti fling or it would all be on the back tyre not the chain.

It has to lubricate. It has to condition the o rings. It has to stay on the chain. It has to be resistant to water sprayed from the tyre.

Chain lube aint perfect, its not as good as a Scottoiler but it certainly beats a tin of 3 in 1.

[Will]

Will

I would like to think there is some technical argument behind this.

For years, chain lube manufacturers have spent loads of money on development and even more on advertising.....

Its no longer a case of removing a split link and boiling the chain in a can of lube once a month, what with O rings etc.

Its essential with an o ring chain to get oil past the O rings into the heart of the chain hence the reason why the lube is like penetrating fluid when first applied. It then sets to become anti fling or it would all be on the back tyre not the chain.

It has to lubricate. It has to condition the o rings. It has to stay on the chain. It has to be resistant to water sprayed from the tyre.

Chain lube aint perfect, its not as good as a Scottoiler but it certainly beats a tin of 3 in 1.


I totally disagree!!
1. Any lube or anything else that you put onto the chain MUST NOT get past the 'O' rings (or 'X' rings or what ever). The 'O' rings are there to seal in the grease that the chain manufacturer puts in to the chain - if this lubricant gets out then the chain will rapidly deterioate.

2. When some of these 'modern' lubricants 'set' after application they tend to collect grit which then acts a grinding paste. In fact MCN reported some time ago that 'Chain wax' tended to cause faster wear out of chains than the cheaper and more basic oils.

The best lubricant is proabably gear oil as it is specially designed to protest parts that rotate against each other.

Just because the manufacturers of these various chain lubricants say that it is good doesn't mean that it is - their objective is by clever marketing to convince you that thier products will work better than plain old gear oil - but in fact they do not.

A chain regularly cleaned chain (use kerosene only) and lubricates lightly with gear oil will probably last far longer than those lubed with 'fancy' spray on concoctions!!

See the DID website for their recommendations.
http://www.didchain.com/question.html

Will

[A Yerbury]

"Just because the manufacturers of these various chain lubricants say that it is good doesn't mean that it is - their objective is by clever marketing to convince you that thier products will work better than plain old gear oil - but in fact they do not...."

It seems the D.I.D website does just that Will?! the properties of gear oil in reducing friction under stress and heat would certainly be suitable for a chain, however the chain is outside the bike and not in the sump, chain lubes are more adhesive which means they can stay stuck on performing their other function which is to repel water? As for grinding paste I dont think a poultice of sand and grit is much of a threat to modern armoured steel alloys.
just a thought.
AY.

[Nigel C]

Bike spray (http://www.halfords.com/opd_product_details.asp?id=17270&type=0&cat=100)

I use this in aerosol form it's PFTE based dries to a non tacky finish and does not fling off at all use it after every ride and any overspill on the wheels etc cleans them as well when you wipe it all down with a clean cloth

[NBs]

I've been pondering this one for a while... thing is, what part of the chain need lubricating? I can only think that it's the bits inside the o-ring seals, where the chain lube doesn't get to! The chain doesn't need lubricating against the sprocket cos there's rollers that roll with the sprocket and not rub against it. The only thing I can think the lube does, apart from spraying over your back wheel, is protect it from getting wet!

What I do is clean the chain frequently with a rag wetted with water repelling oil... the chain stays clean and rust free, and last at least as long as when I used to use chain wax. It's just part of the weekly cleaning ritual, so isn't at all a pain in the arse to do.

[Pedro]

Mmm, the debate goes on. For what it's worth, here's my two penneth....

Any dust that gets stuck in what ever lube you choose to use will most certainly act as a grinding paste to a lesser or greater degree depending on the particle size / density regardless of hardened steels used in chains. The chain over sprockets run is a very high stress application and it happens many times a minute so very small grinding actions soon start to add up...

I also understand that O or X ring chains are sealed and that lube doesn't get past the seals - the lube is required between chain and sprockets. A point to note is that WD40 and similar will bugger the seals - it causes them to swell and split.

Any lube is better than none, providing the chain is clean when applied. Soooo, clean and lube your chain for a long life. I use a Scottoiler (just wait for the sarcatic comments ... yawn) but I also clean the chain regularly and haven't needed to adjust it for nearly 3000 miles. Chainsaw oil is also supposed to be good which suggests that some oils are designed for chain applications.....

Ped

[Spike]

I use a scott oiler on the monnie and chain lube on the 595 the monnie seems to have the cleaner chain and back wheel so its time to get another scott oiler for the rocket :burnout:

[Will]

I've been pondering this one for a while... thing is, what part of the chain need lubricating? I can only think that it's the bits inside the o-ring seals, where the chain lube doesn't get to! The chain doesn't need lubricating against the sprocket cos there's rollers that roll with the sprocket and not rub against it. The only thing I can think the lube does, apart from spraying over your back wheel, is protect it from getting wet!

What I do is clean the chain frequently with a rag wetted with water repelling oil... the chain stays clean and rust free, and last at least as long as when I used to use chain wax. It's just part of the weekly cleaning ritual, so isn't at all a pain in the arse to do.

This seems to make perfect sense - however there are still some bits that rub together i.e. the chain side plates (for want of a better description) do have some sliding contact with the sprockets so a little oil on these wouldn't go amiss.

So I reckon that frequent cleaning and a small amount of oil to lube to keep out the wet and keep the sides sliding smoothly is all thats needed.

I also find that lightly and accurately applying the oil with a brush reduces the amount of fling to the point that it can very easily be wiped off after the first few miles and remains pretty clean until the next time the job is done.

Will

[Pedro]

I know I harp on about them but I get almost no fling from the Scottoiler and the chain has just the right amount of oil applied (they're adjustable you know) to keep things smooth. My rear wheel is about 90% cleaner than using spray or brushed on oil.

Ped

[berto]

:cool: I use Scottoiler fs365 on my chain keeps it adequately lubed and feckin clean to boot... :burnout:

[Kiwi]

use a scotoiler on my bike and chains last damn near forever

have tried grease and allsorts of oil and scotoiler is the easiest and best solution

[djkus]

im considering getting a scottoiler myself, but im wondering how easy it is to fit/set up.. i got a monster 600 here.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25632&item=7982348028&rd=1

this an ok price?

[A Yerbury]

:cool: I use Scottoiler fs365 on my chain keeps it adequately lubed and feckin clean to boot... :burnout:

who let this specimen back in?!? cool burnout indeed ya tit!!

[gary tompkins]

Mmm, the debate goes on. For what it's worth, here's my two penneth....

I use a Scottoiler (just wait for the sarcatic comments ... yawn) but I also clean the chain regularly and haven't needed to adjust it for nearly 3000 miles. Chainsaw oil is also supposed to be good which suggests that some oils are designed for chain applications.....

Ped

Ditto to what Ped said ;)

Original chain now on 19K and still got plenty left :D

[Capo]

the lube is required between chain and sprockets. A point to note is that WD40 and similar will bugger the seals - it causes them to swell and split.
Ped

Just what is being lubricated by the application of chain lube?
Chain and sprocket? I think not.

[Duncan]

Just what is being lubricated by the application of chain lube?
Chain and sprocket? I think not.

I suggest Capo that you answer your own question on chain lube and run without lube for the next 10,000 miles. If you have a chain left it will resemble a dry rusty walking stick.

Scottoilers definitely improve chain life. I have run my bike both with and without an oiler and am a fan of the things.

In wet weather its also essential to increase the lubrication rate because the wet from the back tyre flings sideways and washes the chain. If there was a seperator in the hugger between tyre and chain then the lube would last longer.

[Capo]

Let me rephrase;

Between what two rubbing surfaces is the lubricant being applied?

[Fosse Foxfight]

Let me rephrase;

Between what two rubbing surfaces is the lubricant being applied?
Oh dear, someone who doesnt know what lubrication is for :p
Any lube ooooer, ahem....any lube acts as a barrier between two frictional surfaces; on a chain and sprocet set up, the rollers against the sprocket teeth (troughs and effective surface) and to a lesser extent the links against the side of the sprocket. Dont forget that lube also acts in a small way as a heat transfer medium. As the man says try riding without and then you'll see.

ta ra

[CK & AK]

Oh dear, someone who doesnt know what lubrication is for :p
Any lube ooooer, ahem....any lube acts as a barrier between two frictional surfaces... As the man says try riding without and then you'll see.

ta ra


sure you have the right forum here FFF? :lol: :lol: ;)

C :p

[psychlist]

Got one fitted to the 998 and use the oil on my monster to clean, lubricate between the side plates (keeping the o/x-rings supple) and stop it going too rusty on the outside. Wait til the chains nice and warm (when you get back from a ride is best) then squeeze some scottoil onto both sides of the inner run of the sideplates and simply wipe off the excess, any dirt or surface rust comes off on the rag. Simple and effective.

[Fosse Foxfight]

sure you have the right forum here FFF? :lol: :lol: ;)

C :p

C.....youre just such a mucky mucky mucky K

ta ra

[scrumpster]

yup fortunatly it only hurt my bank ballance and not my leg
getting the finnal piece of me repare this weekend (fingers crossed) a new hugger
woooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Shouldn't you be buying household items??? ;)

[Scotty]

Shouldn't you be buying household items??? ;)

errm that was 9 months ago hahahr

but like you say got me keys today :)

:bunny: :bunny: :bunny:

[The Kevlar Kid]

I use a Scottoiler (just wait for the sarcatic comments ... yawn) Ped

As no one has yet...

And not to disapoint Pedro.....

Snottoilers - barf.... Bloody horible, ugly, pieces of crap, giving the opportunity to cable tie even more tubes to your bike - can't stand em....

Not a rational argument I know (when do I ever :D ), but I hate 'em. Personally I'd rather fondle my chain on a regular basis with a can of lube :eek:

[MrsJel]

Scottoilers are brilliant - as long as you can't see it - not got one on the monster yet, but give it time. It was OK lubing a chain when I had a main stand on a bike, but putting it up on paddock stand is just a pain in the @rse.

[Mand]

I have a Scotoiler, it is brilliant, it is also out of sight. :cool:

Some of you must be fitting them wrong if you can see them? They aren't suppose to go on your tank you know!!!!

[Julie]

I have a Scotoiler, it is brilliant, it is also out of sight. :cool:

Some of you must be fitting them wrong if you can see them? They aren't suppose to go on your tank you know!!!!
same here moo my shiney piped pal

no one can see mine - in fact the only way anyone knows i have one is if they see the bottle of oil on the shelf in my garage!

10 weeks and counting....? to nats baby?or going on holiday? :)

[Julie]

im considering getting a scottoiler myself, but im wondering how easy it is to fit/set up.. i got a monster 600 here.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25632&item=7982348028&rd=1

this an ok price?

my full scottoiler insructions........with photos

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=7398&highlight=scottoiler

[MrsJel]

I have a Scotoiler, it is brilliant, it is also out of sight. :cool:

Some of you must be fitting them wrong if you can see them? They aren't suppose to go on your tank you know!!!!
I got one fitted by a local dealer at first service (not this bike) - wished I'd taken the photos - it was absolute sh!te. The only thing they'd hidden was the bottle which was in the huge space under the seat (what luxury - space under the seat), everything else was totally on show - looked like the thing was on life-support.

After they said "we've followed the instructions", we re-fit it ourselves (well I watched HE did the rest) and hid everything, even the nozzle came out below the swing arm so you couldn't see it unless you looked for it.

[Mr Cake]

Eh? Whats all this chain lubricant shyite!? The sqeaking is normal isn't it?

Dave

[Mand]

Eh? Whats all this chain lubricant shyite!? The sqeaking is normal isn't it?

Dave


Aww Dave, I can't believe you don't oil your chain? I think the squeaking is from your leathers! :twisted:

[Mr Cake]

Aww Dave, I can't believe you don't oil your chain?
Its the original chain & sprocket and has more stiff links than the class of 1930 page on Friends Reunited! It gets a waxing every few hundred miles, or 8 years whichever comes first :lol: I'm not the biggest mile-muncher by a long way :D
I think the squeaking is from your leathers!
Not since I upped a size ;)

Dave

[DesmoDog]

who let this specimen back in?!? cool burnout indeed ya tit!!

Looks like the gang is almost back together. watching from the sidewings Berto hmmmmmmm?

I use something by Shell in an aerosol and I put it on when I remember. Makes a bloody mess when I catch it with the cleaning cloth and spread it all over the place.

[Capo]

Oh dear, someone who doesnt know what lubrication is for :p
Any lube ooooer, ahem....any lube acts as a barrier between two frictional surfaces; on a chain and sprocet set up, the rollers against the sprocket teeth (troughs and effective surface) and to a lesser extent the links against the side of the sprocket. Dont forget that lube also acts in a small way as a heat transfer medium. As the man says try riding without and then you'll see.

ta ra

Sorry to point out to you the chain rollers do NOT rotate against the sprocket. Rather the link pin (which is factory lubricated) rotates inside the roller.

Now for the side plates, there is indeed a sliding motion between the inner link faces and the sprocket but only at the point of engagement/disengagement of the chain with the sprocket. Note that the sprocket is champhered to aid the engagement. If you examine the side of a lubricated sprocket, you will note how the chain has displaced the lubricant inwards. The lubricant here mixes with road grime and forms and abrasive paste.

As for the lubricant acting as a heat transfer medium your were right to describe this 'in a small way' it is indeed the nth degree of ferk all.

Now I posed the question as to what surfaces are being lubricated to cause all to think (I already know the answer)

It seems sir that you do not understand the priciples of chain power transmissions and their lubrication requirement.

Capo
Bsc
AIMechE

[Terence]

xxxxxxxxxx

[Fosse Foxfight]

Sorry to point out to you the chain rollers do NOT rotate against the sprocket. Rather the link pin (which is factory lubricated) rotates inside the roller.


It seems sir that you do not understand the priciples of chain power transmissions and their lubrication requirement.

Capo
Bsc
AIMechE
I too am sorry, sorry to point out that at no point did I mention the word "ROTATE". The rollers travel in and act against the effective surfaces of the sprocket teeth, for which lubrication is a necessity....its a very basic fundamental of engineering principles and no great mystery....youre trying to keep two metal surfaces apart. As has been said....just run a chain with no lubrication.

ta ra

[Shauns4]

The roller needs lubrication internally, there is no relative moevment on its circumference, the side plates need lubrication on the inner surfaces for sliding friction which is proportional to the lateral load, the movement is due to the relative change in angle during rotation.

Here's a test, what type of lubrication (designation) are we talking about and what is one of the most important features of the lubricant for this type of lubrication?

I tried to keep out of this but there you go?

[A Yerbury]

Fascinating stuff boys!

[Fosse Foxfight]

The roller needs lubrication internally, there is no relative moevment on its circumference,

The internal lube is not in question...as its sealed anyway. When you say there is no "relative" movement?...........theer is "actual" movement of the roller surface as it passes through the sprocket, both positive and frictional....it needs lubrication QED.

ta ra

[DesmoDog]

Christ, how did I end up subscribed to this?

Desmodog (MIMAREST, MSc, BSc, GCE, spelling tests, etc etc,)

[Fosse Foxfight]

Christ, how did I end up subscribed to this?

Desmodog (MIMAREST, MSc, BSc, GCE, spelling tests, etc etc,)
I know :confused: Yerbs...take us away from all this. :bunny:
toodle pip

[CraigMac]

Rotationalolium is an ever present thorantium!! Slippanory can occur when the teethilodes are wornium, due to the oily oily failing to contactualise with the linkythinks.
Applicationifodes of the molybendum will provide much deep joy and avoid the neediness to fit the much hyped, but almost invaluable oil and water mixing valve.

Any other problems, just ask!

Regards

[Fosse Foxfight]

Rotationalolium is an ever present thorantium!! Slippanory can occur when the teethilodes are wornium, due to the oily oily failing to contactualise with the linkythinks.
Applicationifodes of the molybendum will provide much deep joy and avoid the neediness to fit the much hyped, but almost invaluable oil and water mixing valve.

Any other problems, just ask!

Regards
Most succinctly put Stanley :cool:
tatybyelodes

[CraigMac]

No problem.....Its just logic.....

I like to help!

Regards

[A Yerbury]

Craig are you one of these "vulcans" one hears so much about these days?

nano nano.
Mr Yerbury.

ps. sorry "live long and prosper"

[CraigMac]

Alex,
I take it that you have a puncture and your question is "how do I fix it"......
I know this because of my clever use of the mind probe......You should, by now, have the answer.

Regards

[nik_the_brief]

Would this be the most appropriate thread to ask where I am likely to be able to purchase the best new anorak?

[A Yerbury]

Alex,
I take it that you have a puncture and your question is "how do I fix it"......
I know this because of my clever use of the mind probe......You should, by now, have the answer.

Regards

thanks for the info, apart from a slight giddyness I feel ok, I hope you did not probe to far resulting in an "inner space" type scenario? If so follow the signs to inner ear and give me a shout.

Regards.
lexy.

ps. for your own safety please wear your ignore-o-goggles (copyright ukmoc) there is some creepy stuff in there.

[Jason]

Chain lube has a couple of purposes.

1. To reduce friction between the rollers and the sprockets

2. To keep the O rings supple which inturn helps them to seal in the grease applied during manufacture. The lube is NOT intended to get past the seals and lubricate the internal pins.

3. To prevent the exterior surfaces from rusting.

I have used many chain lubes over the years (including gear oil in emergencies) and would agree with the comments regarding chain WAX and it's tendency to collect grit etc.

I now use a Motul spray lube (from Hein Gerick) which is quite thin but doesn't seem to 'fling' too much or collect grit like the waxes.

Hope this answers some questions. :)

[gary tompkins]

Would KY jelly do the job in the event that my scottoiler ran dry in some far away place, or would vasaline be more o-ring friendly :confused:

[Scotty]

petrolium jelly and rubber compounds = bad, as in contraception 101

[Shauns4]

by a Buell with a belt, end of discussion?

[Shauns4]

or rather 'buy' a buell with a belt, end of dirty horrible chain lube

[Rockhopper]

Oh and just to get a good argument started, WD40 is perfectly safe to use on O and X ring chains.

WD40 is a mostly stoddards solvent ( a US name) and the O rings in your chain are made of Buna -N (Nitrile)


http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SC=none&SM=Buna%2DN%20%28Nitrile%29#chem

[Fosse Foxfight]

Oh and just to get a good argument started, WD40 is perfectly safe to use on O and X ring chains.

WD40 is a mostly stoddards solvent ( a US name) and the O rings in your chain are made of Buna -N (Nitrile)


http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SC=none&SM=Buna%2DN%20%28Nitrile%29#chem
Why would you use WD40 on a chain anyway? As you say its about 80% solvent......its not even a lubricant....http://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/discuss/1/52463/52449/, its got a tad of "oil" in there but I cant see the point of putting a solvent on a chain? If you want o clean it then use a tad of diesel or summat cheap. BUT....and this is the MAJOR point....dont then go and put one of them wanky Scottoilers on :D

[gary tompkins]

....and this is the MAJOR point....dont then go and put one of them wanky Scottoilers on :D

Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways. I'll take my Scottoiler off right away and go back to buying messy, sticky chain lube at a fiver a tin, a bike covered in greasy ****e and a chain that wears out in less than 10,000 miles.

Your a star ;)

[Fosse Foxfight]

Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways. I'll take my Scottoiler off right away and go back to buying messy, sticky chain lube at a fiver a tin, a bike covered in greasy ****e and a chain that wears out in less than 10,000 miles.

Your a star ;)
Soz GT :( ....but you know its the right thing to do :cool:

ta ra

[steviej]

Steady flossies.........................................

t'oil ONLY does one t'ing. It separates the moving parts of any component to assist longevity.


RULE OF THUMB:................
1, If the parts moooove serlowerly. The thicker the better!!
2, Thus, if the parts move fast. The thinner the better!!!!!!

Awkward chain drives don't always subscribe to this rule 'cos of the sudden changes in direction..............i.e. whizzing around a sprocket or whizzing along the home straight.
..........bike chain lube is thick 'cos it needs to stay on the chain and not on the tyre. Simple as that. Absolutely no other reason.

I could go on an' on but I'm orf to beddybyes 'cos I need to get up int'mornin'






to do some hairy arse maintenance at H****Z.................. :eek:

[Rockhopper]

I use a scott oiler but if i come in after a wet ride i will spray the chain with WD40 to displace any water, also use it after washing the bike.

Most people have their scott oilers turned up way too high. A fill up of mine lasts well over 1000 miles and my 20,000 mile old chain is still going strong!

[S4R Dude]

I use a Scottoiler me.


You should all use one.



Now do as i say.

[Didge]

I use a Scottoiler me.


You should all use one.


Same here Dude, but many of our members prefer to live / ride in denial. :rolleyes:

[slob]

I use a Scottoiler me.


You should all use one.



Now do as i say.
I don't, you should all do as you please.
I actually enjoy getting a bit zen with my chain.
I swear by profi dry lube(as do some others on here, Dom) almost no mess and I've had to adjust my chain about three times in 4K miles, including 2 trackdays

[Didge]

I don't, you should all do as you please.


No Slob. You will do what you're told. Now be a good lad and fit a ScottOiler.
It's cruelty to your bike not to, and if I had my way, you'd be prosecuted for chain abuse.

[CK & AK]

Didge - shurrit! :p

I am fatter than yow!

I am noisier than yow!

I hava Ducati - do you? :lol: ;)

Fosse - yeah, you are t'man :cool: - scott oilers into the bin, yay! :D

C, whose chains last sooo much longer, cos they are inspected & lubed.

ps: do you like lubing? ;) :D - I do! :D

[gary tompkins]

No Slob. You will do what you're told. Now be a good lad and fit a ScottOiler.
It's cruelty to your bike not to, and if I had my way, you'd be prosecuted for chain abuse.

I've seen the light Didge!

Will ditch the scottoiler and o-ring chain ASAP, resorting instead to old fasioned roller chain boiled in lard on the kitchen stove once a week.

I'm sure my chain will last at least six months :cool:

Hmmm... wonder how easy it is to fit drum brakes on a monster?

[Will]

So I guess that gear oil put on with a brush is the best solution after all - glad I started this discussion all those months ago :D

[Didge]

So I guess that gear oil put on with a brush is the best solution after all - glad I started this discussion all those months ago :D


You're just a bloody trouble maker. Look at the trouble you caused.

FATBLOKE! Ban him from the club, along with all the others who refuse to use a ScottOiler.