how much is there to get out of a 600

[stef]

How much more do you reckon you can pull out of a m600 carb.
k+n, cans, jets, without going to the extreme of nos, how much of an improvement can you get ? in my view, probably around 20bhp max ? am i far off the mark ? has anyone got a link with some sort of idea on this ?
the dilemna is the following: should i beef up the old m600, or should i save me cash, and go for a bigger cc in a couple of years time.
(The m600 as it stands is not powerfull enough for the use i have of it, and eventhough i trully love the bike, i could do with a bit more 'confort' around the 70mph mark) Would the extra 20bhp i would get with a few mod actually be enough ?

[Paranoid Dave]

As a 600 owner myself I think i can say the better you ride the bike, the more you ride it, the better the bike will perform. I used to want a bigger engine, still do but not as much as I can now use my 6 better.
Mines a 99 model and until this summer had standard gearing, then i dropped a tooth off the front and 4 or 5 off the rear, now she pulls soo much more up to 90 without a problem before she starts to squeeze for more power, used to be 75 before you'd sit there and wait for the speedo to climb. So that's the first thing to look at. I have open cans but no air box mod, no K&N, no carb changes at all. And I'm no skinny git.
Phoenix is the one to talk to on this subject, 'max' the magnificant moster is her 600, stage 2, open pipes etc and she's a much smaller frame than me, she gets 120mph without much problem i hear.

So look at the gearing, get the cans, then adjust the airbox to suit, and as the new saying on here goes, it's a 600, ride it like you hate it. :twisted:

[Scotty]

hummm i cant make my mind up on this one
i wish i still had my 600 you could thrash it and proberyly avoide a permanant ban if you were caught
as far as wasting money goes thers an american saying 'there aint no substitute for cubes boy' or sumit like that the most cost effective way is proberly bigger engine (insurance mutter mutter mutter) thers also the other +'es of the next model up twin discs adjustable suspension etc again cheaper with a whole bike than upgradeing one without if ya see what i mean

and then thers that thouight of the 748/916 debate the higher reving engin different character and all that but im not sure the 600 reves higher anyways ~:?

[Scotty]

umm some crazey wish i once had was a turbo 600
ummmm what was i thinking ~:?

[PaulS]

In my experience the old adage that there's no substitute for cubes is correct. I think you're unlikely to get anywhere near an extra 20bhp out of an engine that produces 51bhp as standard just by going for cans, K&N and jets. I have a DP Termi kit fitted to my bike that includes an open airbox with different filter and upgraded ECU and Ducati only claim it gives an extra 4.8bhp. Probably the best and most cost effective way to get an extra 20bhp out of your bike is to swap it for a 900.

[A Yerbury]

blimey how tiny is phoenix? I have those mods but dont go much over 105? (5,11 and 12 stone if ya must know) curse you dave, I may have to investigate dropping a few pegs at the rear now..are you 35-36? its the 30-80 that I like, If I was interested in getting more gatso shots-ahem- I'd just get an old gixer (probly will actually)

[PaulS]

Spooky - seems like Scotty and I were simultaneously having exactly the same thoughts. I guess we must be right then!

[A Yerbury]

as paul says the 900 is probably the cheapest but if you have a 6 and dont want to change then kehin carbs and a flywheel that weighs 3/4 less than standard on top of air box and cans should/could push you up to the 20 bhp mark? bearing in mind its a light bike but then 900s dont weigh much more.

[Scotty]

umm i think we should build a club turbo 600 and dare people to ride it at mental boost just to see if the rear cylinder will go through their groin

[Scotty]

as paul says the 900 is probably the cheapest but if you have a 6 and dont want to change then kehin carbs and a flywheel that weighs 3/4 less than standard on top of air box and cans should/could push you up to the 20 bhp mark? bearing in mind its a light bike but then 900s dont weigh much more.


humm now i didnt think there was that much weight saving between models ~:? am i wrong ?

[A Yerbury]

no you're right thats what I said, the weight increase is pretty marginal? perhaps some bore sorry enthusiast has the dry weights to hand?

[Scotty]

il get my coat and another beer while im at it and perhaps some glasses and maybe a frontal lobotamy then i could post crap on the wheele thread

[PaulS]

no you're right thats what I said, the weight increase is pretty marginal? perhaps some bore sorry enthusiast has the dry weights to hand?

I've just looked them up on Ducati.com but won't post them now. Ya boo sucks! Go back to that dodgey wine you were drinking this afternoon!

[A Yerbury]

cheers!.....slurp. dont get your coat tho scotty just the weight specs. crap on the wheelie thread hmmm must have an eek.

[Scotty]

humm your right i might get slated without a smileiley :eek:

[A Yerbury]

oi! T'wasnt me drinking this afternoon! just a rumour put about by mad hatter the gnomic courier! it was meerly natures own endorphines kicking in after a row with mssrs black and decker causing my hand to balloon up. and hurt. I'm trying to enjoy a few cans of stella at present.... why oh why oh why is bottled proper ale so darn expensive?

[Scotty]

reet accoringing to ducati . com
a 620 is 177 kg 60 bhp = 338.98 chava units (bhp / ton)
a 800 is 179 kg 73 bhp = 407.82
a 1000 is 189 kg 84 bhp =444.44
a s4r is 193 kg 113 bhp = 585.49

what a waste of time

[A Yerbury]

so 12 kg between the 620 and 1000, blimey what s that? 10 argos catalogues?

[Paranoid Dave]

Extra power? Maybe you missed my point, it all depends what you want the power for and what you think power is?
Yeh there's nothing to beat more cubes but as spidermonkey could vouch for after following me on my favourite road, the 600 being lighter and with a 160 section is more nimble. A twin disc set up is not that pricey, i'm doing it this winter and if i sold the standard disc and caliper (having bought pairs) it'd easily be under £200.
Personally speaking I like having power that's fully usable under 100mph, feel it pull through gears rather than first to third and run out of road or here comes traffic; and like i said having changed the teeth made a huge difference, launch off is about the same but where i used to suffer she's now far more useable. What's the point of a potential 120 (as the book states) when after 100 you just sit and wait. I'd rather use the engine to be quick than fast. Can't do more than a ton now - so what! I can get ther quicker.
Alex, I can't remember what the teeth are now, I'll have a look tomorrow and count them for you :D

[A Yerbury]

I hear you dave! but the kids wont have it!! yup, dental records on desk first thing in the morning. cheers!
ay
ps is it me or is "wont" a bit of a crap word? yeah I forgot where the apostrophe went too (too as in also as opposed to too as in "where is it now?"..geographically..)
AY.ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[gary tompkins]

I went the open cans, KN filter and stage 2 dynojet kit route on my 600, and was only saw an extra 3bhp on the dyno. The easy way to gain extra power would be to fit a big bore kit, DP do a an 86mm pistion set which takes the capacity to 680cc. Bigger valves, performance cams and Keihin 41mm flatslide carbs would also help the motor to produce more power. However you could easily blow more than a couple of grand on these mods, and still only have an engine thats a few bhp up on a standard 900.

Chopping the 600 in for a 900 is the sensible route, plus enough tuning goodies are available for this engine to make 100bhp a realistic possibility. :twisted:

[stef]

i guess i will go for the 900, although i agree with some posts.. i am not really after 120+ on the clock, but more the ability to be comfortable on the motorway (at least with power between my legs. nothing more ambarassing than some little c**t in a scuby intimidating you while you are struggling to overtake a lorry :mad: ) . They are the most boring routes, but i have a lot of them to do sometimes. On the other hand, the rest of the time, i enjoy the 6 for being so nibble accross town. I will just have to hope that the 9 wont take that edge away.

[madhatter]

A very interesting debate......

Has there been a similar, previous, one on the forum, between the 900 and S4, in terms of acceleration, flickability on the twisties, overall top speed, tuning options etc etc. :) (let me know of the thread if it exists).

I'm hoping to change next year and am indecisive at the moment between these two models.... :confused:

......or am I opening a can of worms???

[hog]

I have stage 2 dynojetted my 600 (carb needles, K&N open airbox, Sil race exhausts) and on the dynograph have got the bike up to 59.1BHP at the crank. I did drop the front cog down to 14T as well but actually find I prefer the power delivery with the old 15T.

[Scotty]

Extra power? Maybe you missed my point, it all depends what you want the power for and what you think power is?
Yeh there's nothing to beat more cubes but as spidermonkey could vouch for after following me on my favourite road, the 600 being lighter and with a 160 section is more nimble. A twin disc set up is not that pricey, i'm doing it this winter and if i sold the standard disc and caliper (having bought pairs) it'd easily be under £200.
Personally speaking I like having power that's fully usable under 100mph, feel it pull through gears rather than first to third and run out of road or here comes traffic; and like i said having changed the teeth made a huge difference, launch off is about the same but where i used to suffer she's now far more useable. What's the point of a potential 120 (as the book states) when after 100 you just sit and wait. I'd rather use the engine to be quick than fast. Can't do more than a ton now - so what! I can get ther quicker.
Alex, I can't remember what the teeth are now, I'll have a look tomorrow and count them for you :D

could always put thinner tyers on a larger motor and have a **** before you set off like ~:? (ummm if i litter this with smilies it will offend less or so il lead to believe) :d

errm i liked the old 600 cos that put you in the lower road tax class (£40 thats 4 tanks of petrol) :burnout:

ummm you altered the final drive for a higher top speed i guess it all depends what the vast majrity of riding you do A-road motorway you proberly do want the top end (which was why i moved up an engine size) but town or perhaps even b roads the drag strip acceleration might be more important

sigh its all personal preferance

and doesn't this just mean you a faster / better / more of a lune rider than spidermonkey :D

don't hate me hate the 600 :twisted:

[PaulS]

A very interesting debate......

Has there been a similar, previous, one on the forum, between the 900 and S4, in terms of acceleration, flickability on the twisties, overall top speed, tuning options etc etc. :) (let me know of the thread if it exists).

I'm hoping to change next year and am indecisive at the moment between these two models.... :confused:

......or am I opening a can of worms???

Don't think I would swap my S4 for a 900 but I might be persuaded to take a 1000.

[madhatter]

oi! T'wasnt me drinking this afternoon! just a rumour put about by mad hatter the gnomic courier!......

Evidently, another problem with the "why do bikes lean to the left" debate (see thread) and the fact this dates back to horses was the actual byproduct produced by the horses, which they use to shovel over to the right, hence leaning over to the left.....

.....apparently, they piled it up into heaps that were either 5 foot 11 inches tall or weighed 12 stone, sometimes in rare cases a pile was made that acheived both criteria.... :lol: :lol: :twisted:

[A Yerbury]

youll be blaming me for producing greenhouse gas methane next!

[manc skank]

as paul says the 900 is probably the cheapest but if you have a 6 and dont want to change then kehin carbs and a flywheel that weighs 3/4 less than standard on top of air box and cans should/could push you up to the 20 bhp mark? bearing in mind its a light bike but then 900s dont weigh much more.

just to be difficult... the kehein carbs will be too big for a 600, 41mm for a 900 and 39mm for a 750, and a much lightened flywheel wont increase the engines power, it reduces the load/inertia the engine has to overcome. ie: much better acceleration through the first gear or three. well worth doing :D
but the top end wont be changed by much if any.

go for the 900, the lightened fly wheel and the 41mm flatslide keheins :D :burnout:

[madhatter]

youll be blaming me for producing greenhouse gas methane next!

Good afternoon Alex....what's the plan today then?.....draining the lower field?...amputating more fingers on the old drill?......or perhaps a couple of large gasses of red wine consumed, whilst deploying "pearls of wisdom" on the forum? :D

[A Yerbury]

hmm the kehin s are a bit of an american thing so possibly is only 900s? I know the flywheel does nowt to the top but Im not really concerned about that, better engine braking too! Biltong currently in box in roof, just hope its not too peri peri..Ill let you know how it tastes (1 day to go)

[Mrs Soup]

How would the fact that I CANNOT reach the floor off the larger framed bikes (ie 800cc and upwards) change the answers posted ??

[PaulS]

How would the fact that I CANNOT reach the floor off the larger framed bikes (ie 800cc and upwards) change the answers posted ??

DP sell a seat that looks standard but is about 20mm lower for the newer bikes with the ST4 frame so I guess they recognise this problem. I've got one on my S4 and it helps a bit but the difference is not huge.

[manc skank]

hmm the kehin s are a bit of an american thing so possibly is only 900s? I know the flywheel does nowt to the top but Im not really concerned about that, better engine braking too! Biltong currently in box in roof, just hope its not too peri peri..Ill let you know how it tastes (1 day to go)

nice! gonna have to post me a taster :D i got 39mm keheins on my 750 :twisted: vrooom!

[Paranoid Dave]

ummm you altered the final drive for a higher top speed i guess it all depends what the vast majrity of riding you do A-road motorway you proberly do want the top end (which was why i moved up an engine size) but town or perhaps even b roads the drag strip acceleration might be more important

sigh its all personal preferance

and doesn't this just mean you a faster / better / more of a lune rider than spidermonkey :D

don't hate me hate the 600 :twisted:

Was out on twisty and motorway today, had no problem flying past lorries at 90 and i hadn't even touched 5th gear at that point. As for the last bit I certainly don't ride like a loon, I don't go nuts on twisties and I'm not that hard to lose on the roads as I'm generally a cautious rider, spidermonkey would normally pull away from me no prob but on this one day I was giving it some and wrestled kylie around more than normal and actually left him behind :D Made a nice change and a good **** taking point.

Alex, the dentist record is as follows. 14 front and 39 rear. 3rd gear tops about 70, 4th gives up around 90 and 5th touches the ton. Below 50 i didn't notice much change from the old set up but after 50 she's much stronger and more responsive. What ratio do you have at the moment.

Oh and just to add fuel to the arguement, anyone can ride a fast bike fast, but only a skilled rider can ride a smaller engine bike fast. ;)

900 or S4 ??? oh what a choice. One is bigger and far more powerful, the other doesn't have a bathroom radiator clamped to the front and you're far less likely to see on in senna colours :lol: ;) So for me it's the 900 every time. Depends how important looks are to you and if you really want/need the extra power of the S4 - i guess a skilful rider on a 900 could out ride the S4 anyway :lol: :burnout:

[Chris]

PD, not that I'm a that skillful rider, but my 900 was passing S4R's on the straight in the fast group at Mallory! It's not just what you've got it's how you use it.

If you want a faster bike than the 600, and in particular more torque, go for more cc's. IMO getting 20bhp more out of a normally aspirated 600 will be virtually impossible. From the stuff I've read the 900 is tunable up to 93bhp (with a LOT of work) which is less than a 20hp gain. I think NCR tuned a 1000DS to 100bhp for the NCR100ONE. The money you'd spend on tuning would outweigh the upgrade cost (and a few titanium bolts to lighten the 900!

Madhatter, as we have discussed, my personal opinion is that I prefer the handling of the 900 because it is the old 888 race bike frame, as opposed to the newer ST2/4 touring bike frame. Best bet is to get a test ride on a couple for yourself.

[Paranoid Dave]

PD, not that I'm a that skillful rider, but my 900 was passing S4R's on the straight in the fast group at Mallory! It's not just what you've got it's how you use it.

Surely that's the defenition of skilfull. You know how to use the bike.

[Chris]

No, I know how to abuse the bike!!!

[NewMon]

Like Paranoid, I enjoy using the "whole bike" and rarely straying above 100. I rode the 800, 1000 and S4R Monsters and enjoyed them BUT the S4R was rarely out of 2nd (police observed ride max 70mph). I certainly would like some more oomph now and then but for day to day use, the 600 suits. I've done about 450 fast miles this week (neck muscles bulgin') and the most fun was filtering through 2 miles of stationary cages. I love bikes - any size :-)

[A Yerbury]

dental records currently 14 - 43, intrigued by a 39....have you found the best price for spr n chain combo? front forks still need doing so I may just give the bits to the man and ask him to do.

[Chris]

PD, your gearing sounds very long unless different 600's have different gear boxes. The standard gearing on a 600 (2001 model) is 15t 46t which is a ratio of 3.07 whereas your 14T 39T combination gives 2.97. This will offer more top end speed and less acceleration. The 14t will gain acceleration over a 15t, but the 39t will lose it over a 46t. dropping 1t on the front is about equivalent to gaining 3 t on the back.

14t 43t is the same as standard gearing 3.07 so no real gain here.

[A Yerbury]

I see I thought 43 was standard! (I may have a 44 its wet and miserable out there so I may have missed one) yup the ratio s the same and would make sense. perhaps I should give a 46 a whirl. 1-3.28 perhaps?

[A Yerbury]

are your sums a bit out? 2.79 and 3.06 resp according to my calcs. you arent using a solar powered job by any chance?!

[Paranoid Dave]

PD, your gearing sounds very long unless different 600's have different gear boxes. The standard gearing on a 600 (2001 model) is 15t 46t which is a ratio of 3.07 whereas your 14T 39T combination gives 2.97. This will offer more top end speed and less acceleration. The 14t will gain acceleration over a 15t, but the 39t will lose it over a 46t. dropping 1t on the front is about equivalent to gaining 3 t on the back.

14t 43t is the same as standard gearing 3.07 so no real gain here.

I suggested to my spanner man about changing gearing, dropping a couple off the back for more get up and go but less top speed. I can understand changing either the fron OR the rear but when he said both I just got confused trying to figure it out. So I though what the hell he knows his stuff so I trusted him and gave it a go. Happy with the results. Top speed is slightly less by 5mph or so (unless you wait) but getting there is soo much better now. Don't ask me to explain it, just believe me when I say it works.

[Phoenix]

Right i'm getting rather fed up seeing all these i want more power from my 600 threads! ;)

How many of these fantastic little bikes are out there poorly set up leaving owners unsatisfied ?

Max ( my bike) will out do more or less any 600 sports bike up to 80 ish and then more slowly will reach a confirmed 126 with a little more coaxing. This is NOT exaggeration it's been witnessed many many times.
Max has a stage 2 dyno. open cans and dp airbox and thats it. I'd expect Max to dyno somewhere between 58-62. My gearing is set for me and I never overev in any gear at all. Max on a standing start can outclass up to ( 300 yds ) almost any 600 4 i've put him against.
Max only ever shows his limits when on a straight long road and the sports bike can overhaul him over the 100 mph zone. How many times do you need to do those speeds in a straight line?
He's faster out of any corner than the sports bike and I rarely change to anything other than 4th for the most twisty of roads. Ask Crust or Ade about the Scotland TT last year ! It's my limit thats reached long before Max's is.
Please people check your gearing, check the set up, invest in cans and dyno and airbox and braided hoses for the single diskers. Then you won't be dissappointed :)

[stef]

cheers for all these replies.. call me old fashioned, but i am really not keen on changing the gearing.my feeling is that the engine was designed to work under a specific load. changing that may work very well, but it's not designed for that. Mr Ducati (the Master) surely knows how to best arrange gears. its a question of trade-offs between performance aspects and reliability (engine loading). there is no real financial issue between different ratio (i mean the cost of building the bike is not affected by the number of teeths..) therefore, it is only a mechanical/engineering issue.
if you beef up the engine, then change the ratio, that's a different story...
to make this half drunken jeberish a bit more concise, i know nooossing of the consequences of upseting the load on an engine. i'd rather trust Mr Ducati (the Master)
to me, changing cheap engine components (which were put there by The Master so that we could all afford monsters) for higher spec ones is morally more acceptable... although here again, you could bring up the reliability issues of, for example, running on a different air/fuel mix, different exhaust compression etc...
so anyway.. i need a refill of vino, so i'll close the original query. I'll upgrade to the M900 or M1000 before next summer. :D
thank you please.

[Phoenix]

PD, not that I'm a that skillful rider, but my 900 was passing S4R's on the straight in the fast group at Mallory! It's not just what you've got it's how you use it..

Exactly :D

[A Yerbury]

the stage 2 is the kit for the carbs plus air box mod yup? that plus cans and a dyno run to balance is a fairly standard mod, mine has that but anything much over 100 is not really there. do you have any details on the gearing set up Phoenix? you're welcome to pop over for a cup of expresso anythime btw! leaving uk in about a month.
Alex.

[Phoenix]

Just to say that i wouldn't swap my 600 for a 900 or s4 even if Ducati gave me one. In fact I was even toying with the idea of racing a monster in the minitwins series next year. I know it wouldn't be last in the Sounds of Thunder class :D :p

[Phoenix]

I'll check me cogs in the morning hun. Oh and i will take you up on the offer... What's the weather like Sunday ?

[A Yerbury]

the weather is "beastly" on sunday but may be a lull b4 noon!

[Phoenix]

Probably won't be up much b4 noon...don't seem to have recovered from the racing last weekend yet....eek. Must be getting old ! What about in the week ?

[hog]

Well said Pheonix. The track day I did at Snetterton this year was hosted by the Ninja Owners Club. I was getting murdered on the straights where top speed was relevant, but in the slower stuff (<80mph) and the twisties, my 600 was gone!

[Phoenix]

Ooo Hog. Snets not really a monster track is it...how brave :D But yes anything up to 80-90 is where my bike is happiest. It's very satisfying overtaking them on the bendy bits isn't it....:D

[hog]

I particularly enjoyed outbraking the guys (twin disk conversion with braided hoses on my 600) into the Bombhole when 10 seconds prior they had come screaming past me on the back straight.

If I am honest though, Snetterton is not the best for Monsters!

[JR]

Alex, if you have got all that fancy kit and the bike will not get over a ton, you might as well chuck it away and go back to standard. My 600 is bog standard and goes like stink - a ton is no problem at all. Mind you, I am like Phoenix - a lightweight delicate flower, so the bike aint carrying much weight anyway.

JR

[Paranoid Dave]

stef, i'm pretty sure that during the history of the 600, the gearing has changed externally, i'm pretty sure the early ones had a different sprocket set up anyway???
The guy who changed mine for me was basing his theory on the latest ratio for the 600 and one that would place less stress on the engine.

Phoenix, i'd just like to say I was not one of those moaning about 600's, I love mine and am very happy with her. so it was them, that lot over there ;)
However i still say Max's speed has as much to do with your petite nature as it does the stage 2 and airbox. :D

[hog]

I think pre 95 ones have a 15T front sprocket as standard (>95 were 14 I think?) but I dunno about the back.

[A Yerbury]

I think you are right about post 95 sprockets, the did codes are different. Jr I shall not be chucking away things as getting into the carbs to take needles and springs out is not an easy job! sils sound a lot nicer than standard and the kn filter/box makes quite a nice noise too! these tweaks dont do a lot to the top but they do give grunt lower down (which is all im bothered about anyway), its ten yrs old now but having ridden 600s of a similar age/mileage with a standard set up there s deff more oomph despite there not being much at the top over a ton. As stated previously if I wanted 130 in a staight line I'd simply get an old gixer or fzr (and I probably will!)
AY

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, i'd just like to say I was not one of those moaning about 600's, I love mine and am very happy with her. so it was them, that lot over there ;)


You mean those ones in the corner shuffling uncomfortably ? ;)

You and Kylie >-<
Me and Max >-<

Ahhh togetherness :D

[Phoenix]

I am like Phoenix - a lightweight delicate flower

:o Ooo i like you :D

[Billy Bigwheels]

I found that a 600 tends to be ridden to the stop and you are quite literally wringing every last drop of power out of it.....there is of course enough power for most roads but (IMO) much better to always have more on tap when/if you need it - allows you to ride in a more relaxed manner.
More cubes required sir!

[Phoenix]

but (IMO)

Not allowed....traitor :p














;)

[A Yerbury]

D'accord! but cubes is more money is more problem.
Allesandro.

[Billy Bigwheels]

[QUOTE=Phoenix]Not allowed....traitor :p

Soz.....won't stop me coming to watch you race :bunny:

[Phoenix]

I'm really rather more than tempted. Theres a guy races a cb500 in the SoT at NG and he manages not to be last. I reckon a 600 monster is in with a chance meself.


Oooo the optimism :D

[Paranoid Dave]

Do it Phoenix, I'll def come and watch you race then :D Show those moaning minnies what 600's can do.

I'd also like to point out that one day I may upgrade engine size but that has no reflection on my affection for the 600 - just wanted to say that now for fear of "you said...." in years to come. ;)

[Phoenix]

I'd also like to point out that one day I may upgrade engine size

http://www.4peeps.com/ivb/html/emoticons/slap.gif

[Paranoid Dave]

OUCH

:(

Maybe I should have said, one day Kylie would like to upgrade, never sell her just improve her. **** did I say improve I mean expand and develop her potential. ;)

[Phoenix]

OUCH

Want some vaseline on that ? :twisted:

[Paranoid Dave]

Only if you want to come and rub it in :twisted: :twisted:

[Phoenix]

Only if you want to come and rub it in :twisted: :twisted:

Hmm and i have a free weekend this week too.....be afraid young Jedi :D

[Paranoid Dave]

be very afraid - i'll be in your neck of the woods at on yer bike open day.

come and give us a hug :D

[Phoenix]

be very afraid - i'll be in your neck of the woods at on yer bike open day.

come and give us a hug :D

Ok when is it then ? My neck of the woods...yeah tis only about 80 mile away I think :confused:

[Paranoid Dave]

open day is this sunday, big ride in from UKMOC from McDonalds in aylesbury.
Day is 10-4 but i think we are all getting there around 11.30.

see whats on at weekend section :D

be good if you could come :cool:

[Phoenix]

See you there then ;)

[restin]

I recently spoke to the Dynojet centre at Verwood and asked the same question...

They said dont use dynojet kit on this bike as it wears parts in the carb??

modify the air box by removing the section that has the intake trumpets on it,
fit a K&n filter and good 2into1 race can set (Preadator etc) and re-set needle jet potision to suit, using dyno if available.

This will give 5/8 bhp and that is all you will get???

That is almost the exact words used by the dynojet centre

hope it helps

[Phoenix]

Hmmm. I've done over 20k with a dynojet kit in. Never needed adjusting, had no carb problems at all even in winter. Can only go with my own experiences as an owner.

No problems at all thus far ! As i've said my only ever failure on this bike has been the regulator and that was early on.

[A Yerbury]

sorry but they are talking Balls!

[Phoenix]

sorry but they are talking Balls!

Agreed. :)

[Jamcoly]

My m600 seen 125 with same sort of mods. so so the came is true.

[Phoenix]

My m600 seen 125 with same sort of mods. so so the came is true.

Ooo i love you.

There was me thinking i'd got the only 600 that would do 120 +

I was even starting to think i'd got a different engine fitted in mine :eek:

I feel all justified now :twisted: :D

[Fosse Foxfight]

:rolleyes:
Now120+ from a 600.....I know there must be more than me who find this a tad difficult to swallow........this been measured or is that what you see on your clock?

:cool:

ahem....Ill get me coat

Sean

[Phoenix]

:rolleyes:
Now120+ from a 600.....I know there must be more than me who find this a tad difficult to swallow........this been measured or is that what you see on your clock?

:cool:

ahem....Ill get me coat

Sean

Well seeing as i'm talking from experience rather than hearsay then i sugest you get yer coat :p

It can be proved without difficulty at all. My bike's been clocked at 126 by other bikes and non ducatis so read into that what you will :rolleyes:

[Fosse Foxfight]

Well seeing as i'm talking from experience rather than hearsay then i sugest you get yer coat :p

It can be proved without difficulty at all. My bike's been clocked at 126 by other bikes and non ducatis so read into that what you will :rolleyes:
Aaaaaah a popular mistake :cool: ....so with a usual 10% error we could be talking realistically about 114mph....hehe thought so :p
Thought youd actually had it measured :twisted:

ta ra me ducks

Sean

[Phoenix]

Remain a sceptic if you must.

All this from someone who's not got one and probably never ridden one...How refreshing and familiar :rolleyes:

[Fosse Foxfight]

Remain a sceptic if you must.

All this from someone who's not got one and probably never ridden one...How refreshing and familiar :rolleyes:

First thing I rode when I decided to get one. And Ive ridden 3 since.
Lash out when you're spurious claims are challenged? How refreshing and familiar :p
No replacement for displacement :cool:

ta ra me ducks

Sean

[Phoenix]

Nice of you to assume A i'm lashing out and B my claims are spurious.

Make judgments on people without any evidence. Nice !

[Phoenix]

First thing I rode when I decided to get one. And Ive ridden 3 since.
Lash out when you're spurious claims are challenged? How refreshing and familiar :p
No replacement for displacement :cool:

ta ra me ducks

Sean

I'm twpd, Phoenix's bloke - I no longer have an account on here but, I thought I should respond to the bait.

I have video evidence shot from my Triumph Sprint RS with 122mph on the clock and P pulling away into the distance on her 600. I have clocked her 600 in excess of 120mph on a variety of bikes: my Fazer 6, my Sprint RS and my 748. "Max" happily cruises two-up at an indicated 100mph and even with my 13 stone frame on it will show 127mph on the clock. Of course, all speedo's lie but the balance of evidence I have seen does indeed confirm that her 600 will exceed 120mph. If you want to see the evidence I'll give you a pointer to the video (ftp) but, it's a 70MB or so download.

Zimbo of this parish will also confirm this.


...and I think her bike is the absolute wotsits. I love it and don't find it wanting in any aspect other than for long distance motorway work. I'll happily scratch on it and dice with other bikes. ;)

Nige.

[stef]

as the originator of the thread, i'll like to step in at this point !
right, so, all this 120+... on private roads, i assume.
anyway. i am a beleiver, as i dont see why the m600 would fail where a 4cyl would succeed (bless the ignorant !)
the question is, what, and how much do you need to invest on the m600 to get to this ? and is it still reliable ? is it still pulling its weight at the bottom end ?
The vibes i got from this discussion is that standard upgrade such as K&N, cans, jets etc... will not give you anymore that 60bhp. it is fairly difficult to relate bhp and motorway confort, but i used the m900 as a bench mark. the m900 should be comfy, with 71bhp.. and the extra torq so can i get 71bhp out of the 600 without loosing the torq? hence the thread. I guess we need an engine guru to answer this one...

[Phoenix]

Is BHP relevent?...it's a matter of how it's delivered thats important.

I've said the rest elsewhere Stef ;)

I'll also point out that nowhere did I say that an m600 is as powerful as a 900. It's not. However I know my bike and i'll stick to the facts as i see them and ride them.

I will stick to the fact that a properly sorted 600 IS all you need unless you want to go everywhere in a straight line at 100 mph plus that is :p

[A Yerbury]

did you get to see what the cogs were doing, no rush but useful for future reference.
Alex

[stef]

yes, i'd be interested with the cogs as well..
I agree with you phoenix, you cannot relate bhp to motorway comfort, but i need to start somewhere. what do bikes that are comfy on mortoways have in comon ? either big cc or big bhp... the m600 has neither. i am not saying that he wont do 120+, but i am after some margin on a long motorway journey.
i want ot be able to cruise at 80, and if some asshole in a m3 starts tailing me while i am overtaking, i want to be able to open up a little to overtake that lorry just a little quicker.
I agree 100% that the 600 is more nimble, corners better and maybe takes off faster. that i want to keep, but i also want that extra umph on the M1 !
i am still very much undecided, but dont want to invest too much in a bike that ultimately wont cut it ! (mind you, i could just keep 2 bikes...)

[A Yerbury]

I think phoenix is a very lucky (jammy!) one off if a 600 with k n stg 2 plus a race can delivered 120+ we d all know about it (either that or there is dark voodoo gearing virgin sacrifice going on) I dont doubt for a second that max does that as I worship at the temple of fast women! I wouldnt sweat it too much stef as both phoenix, P diddy and myself assert its what happens off the motorway that counts, most bloody family saloons can cruise at 120 these days I just hang on, try to look cool and not kill myself (in the middle lane)
AY

[A Yerbury]

(mind you, i could just keep 2 bikes...)

after all for just over a grand an 10 year old gsxr 750 with mods (loads out there) will still be bringing the front wheel up at 130mph...

[Phoenix]

:)
Stef i really can't understand the problem you have. I have no trouble travelling at 80 and in seconds overtaking at 90-100 i really don't . It's confusing the hell out of me.
I guarantee that if you took Max on the motorway you wouldn't come back with the same comment.
Please please come and try it for yourself and believe me i don't let many people on my bike but i'd hate you to give up on the ickle 600's right now without trying Max :)

( disclaimer : smelling mistaks compliments of Bacardi and Coke ) :D

[Phoenix]

as I worship at the temple of fast women!

Hmmm when you leaving ? :D Still gotta get over to you. Next week do you now ? :)

[Phoenix]

(fter all for just over a grand an 10 year old gsxr 750

:eek: Shell suit :eek: :p with no souuuuuuuuuuuuuuul man :cool:

[A Yerbury]

gixers rock! they are old skool! a good 10 yrs b4 shell suits!!! (Im talking abouth the early ones mind) bullet proof engines! yes they became ****e but the early ones were great. Im off in just under a month so get yer ass over malvern way for earl grey and biscuits

[Phoenix]

[QUOTE=A Yerbury so get yer ass over malvern way for earl grey and biscuits[/QUOTE]

Wonders how earl grey and biscuits + ass...but hey who cares. Love Bacradi :D
See ya sooooon hun :D

[A Yerbury]

youve been lovin it so much you can ni lokgher spehell bacrrradi

[stef]

Phoenix , thanks for the offer, i'll get back to you if i get near where you live !what 'petrol' do you use ? a few tea spoon of bacardi per tank full may explain a few things !

[Fosse Foxfight]

I'm twpd, Phoenix's bloke - I no longer have an account on here but, I thought I should respond to the bait.

If you want to see the evidence I'll give you a pointer to the video (ftp) but, it's a 70MB or so download.

Zimbo of this parish will also confirm this.


...and I think her bike is the absolute wotsits. I love it and don't find it wanting in any aspect other than for long distance motorway work. I'll happily scratch on it and dice with other bikes. ;)

Nige.
OK Nige, lets do that FTP thang, 70mb is fine for my T1 LAN...........and Im very good at eating humble pie........

ta ra me ducks

Sean

[JR]

The last time I rode my 600 I had 120mph (maybe for only a few seconds) on the clock on the run back to Bristol from Tewkesbury (nice to see you again Phoenix). Bog standard bike, BUT allways filled up with Optimax or Super Unleaded.
I think you guys should remember, it is all about having fun, 125cc or 1300cc, it makes no odds. 30mph round a few traffic islands on a heap of junk can make you feel like Valentino.


JR

[Fosse Foxfight]

The last time I rode my 600 I had 120mph (maybe for only a few seconds) on the clock on the run back to Bristol from Tewkesbury (nice to see you again Phoenix). Bog standard bike, BUT allways filled up with Optimax or Super Unleaded.
I think you guys should remember, it is all about having fun, 125cc or 1300cc, it makes no odds. 30mph round a few traffic islands on a heap of junk can make you feel like Valentino.


JR
In the words of a famous 16th century Egyptian..."shorely shome mishtake"......97/98RON in a 600?......nah mate waste of time n money.....soz, thought this thread needed dredging up.......now Yerbs, over to you old fruit :bunny:

ta ra me bunnys Im off ta polish me horns

[A Yerbury]

The last time I rode my 600 I had 120mph (maybe for only a few seconds) on the clock on the run back to Bristol from Tewkesbury (nice to see you again Phoenix). Bog standard bike, BUT allways filled up with Optimax or Super Unleaded.
I think you guys should remember, it is all about having fun, 125cc or 1300cc, it makes no odds. 30mph round a few traffic islands on a heap of junk can make you feel like Valentino.


JR


sorry JR whilst I bow to your experience (not in that way) given the choice of a big bad busa or a kh "empty fag packet" 125 I know where I'm going. (the hedge probably) after all why have cotton when you can have silk? or crack? or Beatrice Dalle? etc

[M900Dom]

it is fairly difficult to relate bhp and motorway comfort, but i used the m900 as a bench mark. the m900 should be comfy, with 71bhp.. and the extra torq so can i get 71bhp out of the 600 without loosing the torq? hence the thread. I guess we need an engine guru to answer this one...

Simple explanation: HP = Torque x Revs, so for more HP you either have to Increase Torque or Revs.

The 600 and 750 are higher revving than the 900, but the 900 has a lot more torque.
They have very different characters as a result.
It sounds like what you are asking for is More Torque, to pull higher gears on the Motorway.
On standard gearing at 60 ish to overtake a lorry you should be able to drop it into 3rd and ferk off into the distance from even a quick beemer.
Its all about using the gearing to get into the rev range where the engine is making Max Torque or HP.
Sit there in top and just pull out and wind on the gas, you will be there for ages as the engine will only accellerate slowly, drop it a couple of gears and wring its neck ;) it will all happen a lot quicker.

Now for the Tuning bit. the 600 and 750 are very similar in terms of fun/delivery, the 750 just has more torque due to the capacity increase.
If you wanted to keep with the Revvy feel of the 6 then I would start with the 750 rather than the 900.
There is no substitute for cubes :rolleyes: everything you do tuning wise applys equally well to all three capacities, you just get a bigger result with the larger motors.
I have ridden all 3 sizes, and IMHO the 750 is by far the sweetest ride, because it still has the Revvy Nature of the 6, the Handling is light and flickable like the 600 but it has a bit more Grunt.
The 900 engine has more of an effect on the handling, so although much Torquier, its slower revving and slower to turn etc, & shutting off the throttle has a greater effect on the handling.

Firstly, is your engine currently running to the absolute best of its ability ?
Are the Valve clearances set to the tighter early clearances ?
Are the Carbs Balanced ?
Has it got new Plugs and fresh oil ?
Is the Chain in good condition and properly cleaned, adjusted and lubed ?
All these things make a big difference to how well it runs.

The standard route is Cans, Airbox mods, Filter and jet kit, and that should free up 4 - 9hp depending on Bike and Capacity.

Flywheel WILL NOT INCREASE POWER, it will just change power delivery.

Flatslide Carbs will increase a little, but again the main benefit is in delivery, unless you go to short inlet manifolds.

Ignition upgrades are worth while, Dyna Coils etc, especially if you are doing more later.

After that you have to open it up, and you are looking at Head work, capacity Increase (See its there again ;) ) Compression Increase, Bigger Valves and head Porting, Lightening and Balancing components etc
Different Cams will give different power curves, but usually just shift it around and you tend to lose out somewhere.
All of this gets expensive.
Is it worth it ? :confused:
Thats up to you,
If you are going to do it to the smaller engine, I would give yourself a headstart with a 750 Motor, but I`m an engineer who designs engines for a living ;)

Just be aware you will NEVER Get your money back on the Mods and you will get similar Power at the top end to a 900 but the 900 will still stomp away from you out of every corner unless you are wringing its neck everywhere in the powerband, which I am assuming from your M-Way problems that you will not be doing ;)
You would get far more benefit (As we all would) spending the money on improving your riding skills to exploit the handling, and sticky tyres....Or Lighter wheels and better suspension.

Just much easier to show off shiny/Carbon stuff than riding skills
HTH
Dom

PS if you still want to open it up let me know and I`ll sort you out some prices for Head work/Pistons etc

[CK & AK]

very sound words Dom :)

as you may know, we have a std 583 out in the DD series this year, and have done all the above to her, to try & make her competitive against some of the 620's out there.

It wasnt too difficult at Cadwell, as being on the woodland circuit, there was only the one straight - but things will change with Castle Coombe & Snett next on the list. Our bike managed to out manouvere the bulk of the 620's on the corners, due to a very handy rider, but was passed by a few on the straight.

In the last 2 weeks, we have gained another 2hp through Alans sheer bloody mindedness ...... :rolleyes:

However, unless we go the custom pistons route we are now not going to squeeze any more out of her.

Its our choice, as we have developed the 600 as far as we can go (with too many late nights) - so: either custom pistons - or poss 620 'carbed' - unless you have any other ideas Dom?

Back to the main discussion - the M750 is the best allrounder - in both our very humble opinions :)
We ride the M1000 & a 900ie special - they are more suited to the type of riding we do.

C :)

[M900Dom]

Its our choice, as we have developed the 600 as far as we can go (with too many late nights) - so: either custom pistons - or poss 620 'carbed' - unless you have any other ideas Dom?

Back to the main discussion - the M750 is the best allrounder - in both our very humble opinions :)
We ride the M1000 & a 900ie special - they are more suited to the type of riding we do.

C :)

Hi CK :D
I Didnt know :confused: been a bit out of touch lately :D
Give us a ring with current specs and we`ll see what we can come up with ;)

FWIW, I agree and a 1000ds motor would be my starting point as well.... for the same reasons :D

Also easier to back off on a quick bike than over ride trying to keep up IYSWIM ;)

I`ll send you a Number in case you havent got it
Cheers
Dom