Yes that’s really helpful thanks I can see the longer bolts. Don’t suppose you know how long they are ? The Ducati parts map has them on mine as Part No 77911181A but there are no specification details. Just need to check I am looking at the right ones and whether they will fit on the right hand side (with spacers).
Searching for a bracket to fit a high mounted exhaust
- Thread starter Foggy
- Start date
Yes that’s really helpful thanks I can see the longer bolts. Don’t suppose you know how long they are ? The Ducati parts map has them on mine as Part No 77911181A but there are no specification details. Just need to check I am looking at the right ones and whether they will fit on the right hand side (with spacers).
spuggy
Registered
To be clear, the shouldered part of the bolts are identical. The ones that came with the kit for use with the spacers have a longer thread to accommodate the spacers.
I just faffed with the calipers. Without taking the hangers off to get a more accurate reading, I'm gonna stick with my initial guess of the spacers being 10mm thick. So the threads would be that much longer.
Heh. The Mk 1 eyeball - sometimes wildly wrong, but sometimes surprisingly accurate...
spuggy
Registered
If I can find them, you're more than welcome to them, as I don't need them.
That said, let's set expectations: don't hold your breath. I don't know whether they're in the pile of bits I took off the M900 Dark in 2017 or in a box I shipped over (I have since moved several times).
I've been unable to find many things I've actively looked for since I moved. And once I found something in the garage working on the car, thought "ah, cool, I've been looking for that" - walked 15 ft to the bench whilst thinking about the primary task in order to put it down there - only to find my hand empty when I got there, with no idea WTF I put it. I haven't seen it since.. Getting old isn't for wimps.
Realistically, I could measure the DP brackets on the bike. You would only need rough sizings to duplicate them - because the bolt hole sizes/spacings are set by things you already have on your frame, where they bolt up.
Yes of course that makes sense. From the detail supplied by you and Gaza it looks like I just need to duplicate the bolts from the left hand side for the right hand side with the spacers. Appreciate your help.
Darren69
Transmaniacon MOC
Iirc the original S4 headers were something stupid small like 40mm. The full Termi is 45 headers to 50mm mid pipes and actually makes more power and more importantly more torque than the standard 916 did, thanks in part to the low head and the tangential manifold. Crazy baddass torque Monster really!?
Hey Spuggy, looking at the second photo where it shows the complete set of shouldered bolts, I assume the longer bolts are for the lower left hand side of the bracket. So do you reckon I just need two more of these for the lower right hand side ? Or will I also need longer bolts for the upper right hand side too to bring the bracket fully out evenly ? It's just that I was expecting the upper left hand side to have longer bolts too but it seems not from the photo.
spuggy
Registered
Eh?
The photo shows 8 bolts and 8 spacers, no? The 4 shorter bolts are for the top mounts of the hanger, and the 4 longer ones are for the bottom. I forget what the two small spacers are for - seat lock, perhaps?
I'm confused why I don't seem to have that 8 bolts/spacers on the M900, but maybe I screwed up fitting it...
I could only see 2 long bolts but it could be an optical illusion from the photo. If you are saying there are 4 long bolts then that makes sense for the lower bolts on both sides. I was wondering though whether I needed longer bolts for the upper 2 bolts on each side to bring the complete bracket out evenly.
Yes it would seem so from all the help I've received from everybody on this topic. Just replied to Spuggy above though as I was wondering whether I needed longer bolts for the upper 2 bolts on each side to bring the complete bracket out evenly. Guess I'll find out when I try it.
spuggy
Registered
Well, let's look at the parts drawing #31.
The top hanger shouldered bolt or "screw" #13 is 8000.62568, it states "QTY 4", and uses #2, "washer", part #852.1.065.1A, also "QTY 4". So the top hanger fasteners are all the same.
On the right side bottom, there's a short screw, #3 on the diagram, part #779.1.178.1A, "QTY 2". Used with a "Washer" #11, part #852.1.099.1A, also "QTY 2".
On the left side bottom, there's a long "screw" #19 part #779.1.093.1A & "QTY 2", used with "spacer" #21, part #716.1.056.1A. The parts diagram says this is "QTY 1" - which I think might be incorrect. Or maybe it isn't. These bolt through the kickstand bracket into the crankcase.
So, not rocket science. Make brackets to hold the cans, remove the footrest hangers, fit the slip pipes, adjust until it looks right, bolt everything up.
Then try to fit the footrest hangers over the pipes.
If you don't have sufficient clearance between either the hangers and the pipes or the swing arm and the pipe, then you'll need to space the hangers out enough to give the pipe clearance while allowing the swing arm to move without fouling anything.
As I would estimate your chances of scoring a complete fitting kit these days pretty much non-existent, Mr Gazza's approach would seem to be the most practical.
Figure out how much you need to space everything out (I confidently predict 10mm will do it nicely).
Making the spacers out of bar stock should be trivial enough. They look to be the same diameter as the shoulder on the bolt, for reference.
To replicate the "shouldered" part of the bolt, more bar stock the correct diameter to fit snugly into the rubber bushing aka the "vibration damper" in the hanger. Drill a hole of the correct diameter to clean the bolt, use fasteners of your choice (eg stainless or Ti, perhaps a mushroom head) and desired length, thread pitch/diameter. Mr Gazza's idea of making them look like the bolts that hold the oil cooler on is very slick...
The factory bolts tell you how much thread the factory considered provided the correct engagement (eg "how much sticks out of the shouldered part?"), just add the thickness of the spacers you're adding.
I seem to recall that the kit also came with hooked springs of a different length to hold the cans to the slip pipe. But pretty sure you can either use the originals or source those easily enough.
The top hanger shouldered bolt or "screw" #13 is 8000.62568, it states "QTY 4", and uses #2, "washer", part #852.1.065.1A, also "QTY 4". So the top hanger fasteners are all the same.
On the right side bottom, there's a short screw, #3 on the diagram, part #779.1.178.1A, "QTY 2". Used with a "Washer" #11, part #852.1.099.1A, also "QTY 2".
On the left side bottom, there's a long "screw" #19 part #779.1.093.1A & "QTY 2", used with "spacer" #21, part #716.1.056.1A. The parts diagram says this is "QTY 1" - which I think might be incorrect. Or maybe it isn't. These bolt through the kickstand bracket into the crankcase.
So, not rocket science. Make brackets to hold the cans, remove the footrest hangers, fit the slip pipes, adjust until it looks right, bolt everything up.
Then try to fit the footrest hangers over the pipes.
If you don't have sufficient clearance between either the hangers and the pipes or the swing arm and the pipe, then you'll need to space the hangers out enough to give the pipe clearance while allowing the swing arm to move without fouling anything.
As I would estimate your chances of scoring a complete fitting kit these days pretty much non-existent, Mr Gazza's approach would seem to be the most practical.
Figure out how much you need to space everything out (I confidently predict 10mm will do it nicely).
Making the spacers out of bar stock should be trivial enough. They look to be the same diameter as the shoulder on the bolt, for reference.
To replicate the "shouldered" part of the bolt, more bar stock the correct diameter to fit snugly into the rubber bushing aka the "vibration damper" in the hanger. Drill a hole of the correct diameter to clean the bolt, use fasteners of your choice (eg stainless or Ti, perhaps a mushroom head) and desired length, thread pitch/diameter. Mr Gazza's idea of making them look like the bolts that hold the oil cooler on is very slick...
The factory bolts tell you how much thread the factory considered provided the correct engagement (eg "how much sticks out of the shouldered part?"), just add the thickness of the spacers you're adding.
I seem to recall that the kit also came with hooked springs of a different length to hold the cans to the slip pipe. But pretty sure you can either use the originals or source those easily enough.
Thanks for a nice clear explanation Spuggy.
To clarify my solution to my lack of shoulder bolts in the first place, here's what I made from 1" ally bar.
Inexcusable dust from a mould making project exposed by the flash! Bike hasn't been used since December and the refresh is still ongoing.
Hopefully that explains things in pictures better than a whole bunch of words (Spuggy speak
)
The dims of the top hats can be pretty much generated from the original shoulder bolts and the head pattern is up to you.
Note that the actual shoulder is reduced to about 1mm all round on the 10mm top hats, so they get a bit tender!
This is a good way of making the bolt length totally adjustable ad nauseum.
Finally here's what a previous owner thought would be a good idea to form a shoulder bolt!! Also some cup washers, original and custom.
To clarify my solution to my lack of shoulder bolts in the first place, here's what I made from 1" ally bar.
Inexcusable dust from a mould making project exposed by the flash! Bike hasn't been used since December and the refresh is still ongoing.
Hopefully that explains things in pictures better than a whole bunch of words (Spuggy speak
)The dims of the top hats can be pretty much generated from the original shoulder bolts and the head pattern is up to you.
Note that the actual shoulder is reduced to about 1mm all round on the 10mm top hats, so they get a bit tender!
This is a good way of making the bolt length totally adjustable ad nauseum.
Finally here's what a previous owner thought would be a good idea to form a shoulder bolt!! Also some cup washers, original and custom.
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Thanks Spuggy, a most comprehensive explanation I appreciate it. My part numbers differ as it's a 1995 M600 but completely agree with the method.
So looking at the parts map on www.bike-parts-ducati.com (not sure what the map number is) my left hand bottom "screw" is 7791181A and the right hand bottom "screw" is 77912061AB. Interestingly part number 77912061AB is the part number for the LH screw on the M900 which supercedes the part number you mention (7791093A) for the left hand side. Surprised because I would expect the LH side to be longer.
Thanks Gazza. In the absence of tools to fabricate the longer bolts I am hoping to pursue your previous suggestion of buying another LH screw (if it is longer) and use it on the right. Problem is no dimensions are specified and they don't know themselves, they just order them from Italy. I won't know until I try it I guess. Might avoid the insulation tape solution though !
Yes exactly that's the plan, to try the LH side bolts on the RH side when I eventually start the work buf it won't be until after the Summer. In the meantime I was trying to get bolt dimensions to see if it's feasible.
Darren69
Transmaniacon MOC
So what is the torque value of plastic tape? Great bodge ffs, that is awesome!
Quick Update ─ after trawling the internet it seems the LH bolt is 53mm long and the RH bolt is 46mm long. Doesn't quite give me the 10mm difference I was hoping for but it depends how much spare thread there is already. I'll find out when I try it out.
spuggy
Registered
You won't need longer thread if the shouldered portion is longer - 'coz you won't need the spacer if the shoulder moves it out that far. Also don't see how that helps you with the other 3 fixing points that you're also going to need to space off the frame.
There are sources for domed & countersunk "finishing" washers off-the-shelf - and countersunk stainless bolts available in a surprising (and quite pleasing) selection of lengths. Bar stock spacers & washers readily available or easily adapted with hand tools.
Doesn't seem like any real need for one-off machining. Although I often pine for access to a mid-size lathe or mill....