Bikesure_adrianflux

S4r killing batteries.

I’ve done the checks for the reg rec and stator, they’re good and there’s no parasitic drain.

I put my 3rd battery in 3 days ago and have been testing it with a battery tester twice a day, it’s been holding voltage, 210+ cca and showing 100% good. So, I’ve been on it today and done 140 miles and it’s running sweet. Parked it on the drive and came back to it 2 hours later to test the battery…

13.7% - was 100% before the ride
12.52v – was 12.75
29cca – was 214
Impedence mr 95.19 – was 12.64
Power 77% - was 100%

There’s not enough in it to fully sweep the clocks, it’s dead.

Seat and tank off, battery out and I noticed the battery tray was a wet. I think there’s been steam under the tank which has been shorting the batteries out either during or after a ride. I can’t see any cracks but it sure does look like it’s coming from the mounts for the battery box.

Thoughts?
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Steam from engine coolant or was it a rainy ride? Not that it matters, I'm just curious. Third battery in how many days?
 
It's got to be steam from coolant, it's not been out in the rain and not washed either.

I've given this a lot of thought and slept on it. I got the bike in winter and didn't ride it until March, the battery had been out and I'd charged for the first ride, all was good.

A couple of weeks later I went to start it and it was flat. Tried charging it but it wouldn't take, as I didn't know how old the battery was I just got a new one. It sat in the garage and was installed the day before I went out on it for the 2nd time and rode for a good couple of hours, parked it up and left it again for a few weeks.

Came to start it and it was flat, it wouldn't take a charge. At this point I thought it's either not charging during the ride or there's a parasitic drain so I bought battery number 3. Installed it and did the voltage checks for the stator and reg rec, everything was good and in spec, the reg rec connectors had no signs of burn marks. I then checked for a parasitic drain and that was OK too. I also bought a battery tester and over the next few days tested the battery a couple of times a day and it was holding it's charge and cca. So, was the second battery a duffer?

So, back to my original post. Where is the coolant coming from? Steam is coming from somewhere and condensing under the tank, I think it's then shorting the battery and also causing the mess on the cylinder head. At first I thought the head was cracked on the battery box mounts and coolant was leaking out there, but for it to have two cracks in the same place I now think is unlikely and that's just where the condensed coolant is running.

My next steps are to find where the leak is coming from, either cooling pipes, head gasket or cracked head or barrel... and buy another battery.

Does anyone have any suggestions on finding what this issue might be if I'm going down a rabbit hole?

Cheers,
Iain
 
It seems reasonable to assume that steam condensate is causing a dead short and draining the battery.
Looks like you're going to have to go on a run to get up to temperature and lift the tank with it running.
If it is steam it will likely be invisible at it's source (At the leak point.), So beware of scalds!

Even if you can't find the actual leak, at least you will be able to leave the tank up and wipe the battery down.
 
Does your bike have the sound reducing "pad" under the tank? Holding water?
 
Not sure that I agree with the diagnosis.
First of all, those dribble marks look rather crusty, very much like the acid damage that my bike suffered years ago when the reg/rec failed and the battery got overcharged.
Would coolant cause such damage ?
Has your coolant level been dropping ?
I presume you have an AGM type sealed battery. Although these are far less prone to leakage than an old school wet battery, I believe they still can leak if the casing is cracked or via an integral safety valve ... possibly due to overcharging.
I know you said that you've done voltage checks on the reg/rec but I wonder whether these checks are a total confirmation of the health of the unit or merely a partial indication.
I seem to recall doing diode checks on my old, failed reg/rec, but that was over a decade ago and the memory has faded.
I also seem to recall that all the tests that I did on the reg/rec at the time showed no problem, but the unit was clearly failing and a replacement cured the problem.
Or could it be that the reg/rec is breaking down when it gets hot ?
Given that a change to an upgraded reg/rec is a worthwhile mod anyway, and while not cheap is not massively expensive either, I would be inclined to do that and keep my fingers crossed that it cured the problem.

ps. there is an old thread on here by Kato which describes the reg/rec upgrade situation.
And beware of cheap chinese copies.
 
O/T but how does that spark plug fire? as it appears there's no lead to the coilpack?
 
I think that's the top of the coil or igniter that you can see and just has an LT connection?
 
As Gazza said, it has a LT connection, in the photo this has been disconnected.
The reg/rectifier is poorly sited on the S4R and it is prone to overheating and failure. Read Kato's comprehensive posts on replacing the reg, makes so much sense, just look out for cheap chinese versions.
I bought a secondhand one and the triumph leads which are a direct replacement.
Unless the battery is fully charged it struggles to turn a cold engine over and repeated attempts pulls the guts out of any battery, new or old.
None of this explains why my S4R is still not running, waiting to get the injectors cleaned, to see if that helps!
Dave
 
I've just come back to the forum after a few days and a fettle with the bike, @utopia, you're correct, it's exactly that.

Started it up this morning with the battery from my BMW and let it tick over until the fans came on and went around all the cooling joints on the vertical cylinder, no leaks, no steam.
Put the voltmeter across the battery and it was at 14.1v at tick over, reved it to 4500 and it went to 17.6v, it's cooking batteries and the mess I thought was coolant is battery acid, it's not cleaning off and it's stained the engine casings and shock spring :(.
The checks I did in winter before I first rode it were the diode tests through the disconnected reg rec and they checked out ok, I've taken it off the bike and tested it again and it still checks ok but it's obviously not regulating.

I'll get a new battery and a reg rec.

@Dukedesmo, I disconnected the coil and moved the wire out of the way.

Thanks everyone,
Iain
 
Water wasn't going to do that to the paint, very hot steam could but it will look different and more like it'd been blasted off.
LOL Started writing then noticed you'd found the battery was charging massively over voltage.
It's acid, you want wash it off with a fluid that'll neutralise it or you'll just be reconstituting it and washing more acid solution around. Spread damp baking soda on it and rub it in with a toothbrush or similar. Make sure to do a good job on any ally parts then pull them off and get some protective layer on the damaged areas like a rattle can varnish, the acid will have etched the surface and removed any protection it had to corrosion,
The diodes just test that the AC it converted from the + - voltage waves of AC into a + set of waves, there's a regulation stage after them that keeps the voltage within specified limits.
 
Here's Kato's original thread on replacing the reg/rec.
It was a while ago though, so there may have been developments since then.
And sadly, photobucket has eaten the pics.
Also, if memory serves there were other interesting threads on the subject around that time. Probably worth a search for those.
And also just to repeat, beware of cheap chinese alternative units (I believe I was guilty of flagging those up back then, but without the danger warning).
And although you say the connection block looked ok, it is a very well known weak spot so possibly worth doing something about while you're at it.
Mine is hard wired and has given no trouble for 25k miles or so, but Gazza's gold bullet connectors are probably a better option, or perhaps the Delphi Metri-pak 630 series multiconnector.

Kato

Thread 'Fried Reg/Rectifier'

This is for bikes with the discreet 3-phase Stator/Generator and Rectifier/Regulator arrangement (Three yellow wires)

Most of us at some point have experienced problems with OEM Regulator/Rectifier used on pretty much the whole Ducati range, so time to do something about replacing the standard equipment R/R with a more efficient component.
I’m assuming that your R/R has failed at this point but no reason you couldn’t do as a preventive measure / upgrade if you were bored could be done in under an hour

First a basic troubleshooting process to determine whether you have a charging...
 
Got a Multistrada 1200 mosfet reg/rec on my M900 and its mounted via an adapter plate just behind the bottom yoke where it will get lots of air flow. Not sure why the later bikes have it under the seat tbh (Louise's 620ie has this daft idea) so maybe you could move yours / the new one to a better location.
 
i moved my RR to front of my S4 ,, and the replacement is a Shindengren Mosfet , its been good for 15 years now the original ones were crap especially behind the rear exhaust . it runs very cool at side of horizontal cylinder just be;low radiator ...look at photo below and zoom in just behind radiator and you will see the RR
 

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