Rear brake caliper?
- Thread starter Bitza
- Start date
yellowfever
UKMOC Member
Yes Ally I think too. If thinking of swapping you can get castellated titanium ones from titanclassics (bit heavier than Ally, corrosion resistant, less heat transfer to brake fluid) or stainless steel from powerhouse UK (heavier than Ally, corrosion resistant) ones.
I’ve just ordered the rear brake titanium piston kit inc seals and titanium bolts from titanclassics for a future rear brake refresh. Will report back in due course… (likely next winter now).
I’ve just ordered the rear brake titanium piston kit inc seals and titanium bolts from titanclassics for a future rear brake refresh. Will report back in due course… (likely next winter now).
I dug an old one out this morning and I can confirm that the pistons are not ferrous and do have the look and feel of aluminium. Sorry I couldn't pull one out to check closer, I don't think they will move without a fair bit of persuasion!
Bitza
platinum with diamond studs member ;-)
Just an off the wall thought, it would make more sense to have the backing plate of pads made in Ti. Making them lighter and (I think I'm right in saying) more resistant to heat transfer. Just have to persuade manufacturers now that it's a good idea?! *
slob
.
what would they cost?! your down to the metal ti pads would be worth more in scrap than your brand new ferodos. just need backless pads ;-)
Interesting reading all this weight shedding malarkey, what about the weight of tyres ? Do the various manufacturers differ in their specs ? WSBk coverage from PI at the weekend suggested that even with minimum bike & rider weight restrictions poor old Scott Reading was still giving away 10kgs ish to Bautista…..that’s quite a lot of titanium in anyone’s language….
As has my old Guzzi, combined with the heaviest alloy wheels known to Motorcycling-kind.
I did replace the, corroded, brake caliper pistons with new alloy versions, mainly to stop them from sticking rather than for weight reduction though...
Ah! The good ol' days eh?
opened it up this morning and found steel pistons, but in remarkable condition for 48 years old.
"Racing" pads all broken up though! And really tight in the caliper. Going to reduce the master from 15.8 mm to 13mm to try and make it work.
pads weigh nearly as much as a Brembo caliper.
Sorry about the thread raid Mike, I think it puts it into context?
opened it up this morning and found steel pistons, but in remarkable condition for 48 years old.
"Racing" pads all broken up though! And really tight in the caliper. Going to reduce the master from 15.8 mm to 13mm to try and make it work.
pads weigh nearly as much as a Brembo caliper.
Sorry about the thread raid Mike, I think it puts it into context?
According to Capo, tyres do vary in weight ... to a degree that he felt was worth consideration.
Mind you, his preoccupation with weight reduction was pretty serious.
I believe he used to use Michelin Pilot Pure tyres after his research suggested they were the lightest. Never heard of them elsewhere myself and I think they have been unavailable for quite a few years now. In fact I think I recall that he had a pair of spares wrapped up in bin liners to guard against UV degradation and squirreled away in his garage.
I do think that weight reduction is worth pursuing but like most things, the devil is in the detail.
Superlight wheels (eg my Dymag carbons) do make a very noticeable difference since they reduce dead weight, unsprung weight and rotational inertia all in one go. The difference after fitting was unmistakeable.
On the other hand, my lithium battery was nearly 5kg lighter than the original wet acid item but I noticed no perceptible difference on the road.
In between these two examples sits my thin walled, 2-1 exhaust with carbon can which also loses a lot of kg over the std system but its value is as much for the simplicity of its design as for its weight reduction.
Then again the above three examples all account for decent amounts of weight loss and, when added together, their combined effect does probably make a noticeable difference.
Miniscule weight losses seem relatively pointless .... but I can hear Capo saying "ah yes, but every little bit adds up".
And there lies the rabbit hole.
Everything in moderation.
And the more of that, the better.
Mind you, his preoccupation with weight reduction was pretty serious.
I believe he used to use Michelin Pilot Pure tyres after his research suggested they were the lightest. Never heard of them elsewhere myself and I think they have been unavailable for quite a few years now. In fact I think I recall that he had a pair of spares wrapped up in bin liners to guard against UV degradation and squirreled away in his garage.
I do think that weight reduction is worth pursuing but like most things, the devil is in the detail.
Superlight wheels (eg my Dymag carbons) do make a very noticeable difference since they reduce dead weight, unsprung weight and rotational inertia all in one go. The difference after fitting was unmistakeable.
On the other hand, my lithium battery was nearly 5kg lighter than the original wet acid item but I noticed no perceptible difference on the road.
In between these two examples sits my thin walled, 2-1 exhaust with carbon can which also loses a lot of kg over the std system but its value is as much for the simplicity of its design as for its weight reduction.
Then again the above three examples all account for decent amounts of weight loss and, when added together, their combined effect does probably make a noticeable difference.
Miniscule weight losses seem relatively pointless .... but I can hear Capo saying "ah yes, but every little bit adds up".
And there lies the rabbit hole.
Everything in moderation.
And the more of that, the better.
Bitza
platinum with diamond studs member ;-)
I used to fit Michelin having read a review raving about their lightness, but it turned out that while the front was indeed "the lightest", the rears were comparatively heavy. So no significant overall gain. Probably better to select tyres based on other criteria.
Re weight saving, it's undeniable that changing to Ti screws on say the throttle twist grip is meaningless in itself, however when the ploy is carried out throughout then significant weight saving can be achieved, be it at a ridiculous cost. I think it really depends on how long you intend keeping the bike and how obsessed you've become. For me it's just a sideline hobby, not to say that I haven't delighted in informing a Bimota owner (who was bragging how light his bike was) that it was in fact heavier than the Heap.
Re weight saving, it's undeniable that changing to Ti screws on say the throttle twist grip is meaningless in itself, however when the ploy is carried out throughout then significant weight saving can be achieved, be it at a ridiculous cost. I think it really depends on how long you intend keeping the bike and how obsessed you've become. For me it's just a sideline hobby, not to say that I haven't delighted in informing a Bimota owner (who was bragging how light his bike was) that it was in fact heavier than the Heap.
slob
.
£1/g was my approximate calculation on a heap of Ti/Mg/CF parts 10 years ago, I only see that getting worse.
Unsprung mass reduction is something like 9x as effective as sprung’ so a 2kg saving on wheels is like losing ~18kg elsewhere!
£ for £ the best value you’ll get, £2k on engine tuning will yield nothing like that kind of performance difference.
Unsprung mass reduction is something like 9x as effective as sprung’ so a 2kg saving on wheels is like losing ~18kg elsewhere!
£ for £ the best value you’ll get, £2k on engine tuning will yield nothing like that kind of performance difference.
Yes Bitza, I fully agree.
And in particular, I concur with the bit about whether the bike is a keeper.
There's a lot to be said for picking a bike carefully and keeping it long term .. and obviously a monster is the perfect example of this.
The "ridiculous cost" of tiny tweeks is still way less than the depreciation incurred by changing to newer models every few years, so its not as daft as it seems at first sight.
And yes, I too must admit to having delighted in the relative lightness of my 750 compared to more modern offerings.
And Rob, yes and yes again, in as much as not only is the unsprung weight reduction more valuable but the reduced rotational inertia of light wheels is also of significant benefit. First time out on my carbon wheels, I couldn't at first work out why my bike seemed to accelerate so much faster.
And yes again, in that engine tuning merely makes the bike faster but weight loss makes it go faster and also stop better.
And still more yes, in that weight loss puts little or no added stress on anything (may even reduce it) whereas engine tuning will usually increase stress exponentially.
Hmmm.
For all my measured comments earlier, I think I'm actually obsessed, aren't I ? But with good cause, I think.
The spirit of Capo grins cheekily.
And in particular, I concur with the bit about whether the bike is a keeper.
There's a lot to be said for picking a bike carefully and keeping it long term .. and obviously a monster is the perfect example of this.
The "ridiculous cost" of tiny tweeks is still way less than the depreciation incurred by changing to newer models every few years, so its not as daft as it seems at first sight.
And yes, I too must admit to having delighted in the relative lightness of my 750 compared to more modern offerings.
And Rob, yes and yes again, in as much as not only is the unsprung weight reduction more valuable but the reduced rotational inertia of light wheels is also of significant benefit. First time out on my carbon wheels, I couldn't at first work out why my bike seemed to accelerate so much faster.
And yes again, in that engine tuning merely makes the bike faster but weight loss makes it go faster and also stop better.
And still more yes, in that weight loss puts little or no added stress on anything (may even reduce it) whereas engine tuning will usually increase stress exponentially.
Hmmm.
For all my measured comments earlier, I think I'm actually obsessed, aren't I ? But with good cause, I think.
The spirit of Capo grins cheekily.
Agree with everything above regarding lighter wheels.
I swapped the original 3-spoke wheels on my 916 with Marchesini forged aluminium 10-spoke which are considerably lighter (though not as light as carbon), IIRC the difference was around 1.7kg off the front and 1.5kg off the rear. A difference immediately noticed, felt like a different bike, especially initiating a turn or altering line mid corner.
Of course after half an hour or so the novelty wears off but, better acceleration, braking and steering with an overall weight loss and absolutely no downside - other than the cost.
If you can do just one thing to improve your bike then lighter wheels is the best, single change you can make.
I swapped the original 3-spoke wheels on my 916 with Marchesini forged aluminium 10-spoke which are considerably lighter (though not as light as carbon), IIRC the difference was around 1.7kg off the front and 1.5kg off the rear. A difference immediately noticed, felt like a different bike, especially initiating a turn or altering line mid corner.
Of course after half an hour or so the novelty wears off but, better acceleration, braking and steering with an overall weight loss and absolutely no downside - other than the cost.
If you can do just one thing to improve your bike then lighter wheels is the best, single change you can make.
C