Monster 900Sie 50000mile refresh.
- Thread starter Mr Gazza
- Start date
The bearings knocked out easily enough this morning including the speedo dog and seal.
The offside bearing is seized solid with a bit of rust evident coming out of the inner seal, although the seals look intact.
This is the bearing I replaced and has done 20600 miles, but stood for the last 12+ months. The original nearside bearing is still good although a bit stiff and has done 50000 miles.
I looked up bearings last night and found it needed 6204 2rs, but the original bearing quite clearly states 6002 2rs/H C3. Maybe I accidentally looked up rear wheel bearings last night? So that's the smoking gun regarding C3.
2rs I knew, as it has 2 rubber seals, but I'll have to find out what the H is.
I'll hopefully get to the bearing shop tomorrow and with a bit of luck he'll also have some new V belts for my tenoner.
The offside bearing is seized solid with a bit of rust evident coming out of the inner seal, although the seals look intact.
This is the bearing I replaced and has done 20600 miles, but stood for the last 12+ months. The original nearside bearing is still good although a bit stiff and has done 50000 miles.
I looked up bearings last night and found it needed 6204 2rs, but the original bearing quite clearly states 6002 2rs/H C3. Maybe I accidentally looked up rear wheel bearings last night? So that's the smoking gun regarding C3.
2rs I knew, as it has 2 rubber seals, but I'll have to find out what the H is.
I'll hopefully get to the bearing shop tomorrow and with a bit of luck he'll also have some new V belts for my tenoner.
I managed to get some new bearings this morning and hopefully they are up to the spec of the original SKF Explorer ones.
They couldn't throw any light on what the H represents, my theory is High temperature grease.
They did seriously question the use of C3 bearings for wheels, which they said was highly unusual and not even recommended.
But I insisted on the C3 spec as Ducati must use these for a good reason and it's not for economy.
I hope to get the new bearings in tomorrow evening, then the new tyres rolled on, followed by the discs. Should have the wheels back in by the weekend easily.
Here's a picture of the seized bearing which appears to be unbranded. The grease has turned into some kind of rust coloured snot and there seems to be a lot of it. I was always told that over packing a bearing is the worst thing to do. The seals were rather thin and much easier to pop out than the SKF Explorer ones. I've washed the bearing out and it still won't turn, although I was managing to wheel the bike about in the workshop with no noticeable resistance. Very strange, but I'm glad I caught it.
The 50000 mile SKF Explorer still had recognisable grease in smaller quantity and turns smoothly even after being bashed out with the inner race.
The seals are noticeably sturdier and were harder to prize out. The rear wheel bearings are original as far as I'm aware and show no signs of trouble. Still puzzled at why that front one is stuck?
They couldn't throw any light on what the H represents, my theory is High temperature grease.
They did seriously question the use of C3 bearings for wheels, which they said was highly unusual and not even recommended.
But I insisted on the C3 spec as Ducati must use these for a good reason and it's not for economy.
I hope to get the new bearings in tomorrow evening, then the new tyres rolled on, followed by the discs. Should have the wheels back in by the weekend easily.
Here's a picture of the seized bearing which appears to be unbranded. The grease has turned into some kind of rust coloured snot and there seems to be a lot of it. I was always told that over packing a bearing is the worst thing to do. The seals were rather thin and much easier to pop out than the SKF Explorer ones. I've washed the bearing out and it still won't turn, although I was managing to wheel the bike about in the workshop with no noticeable resistance. Very strange, but I'm glad I caught it.
The 50000 mile SKF Explorer still had recognisable grease in smaller quantity and turns smoothly even after being bashed out with the inner race.
The seals are noticeably sturdier and were harder to prize out. The rear wheel bearings are original as far as I'm aware and show no signs of trouble. Still puzzled at why that front one is stuck?
The new bearings popped into the front wheel with no drama. I put the bearings in the freezer for a few minutes and poured boiling water on the hub.
The lacquer came off the flanges very easily with 320 wet. Large flakes of it came off when the paper pushed the water underneath it in places. I then went to 1200 wet and finished with Autosol. This should be much easier to keep good in the future by simply re-polishing, the lacquer was clearly too brittle and poorly attached to the polished flanges.
The painted portions compounded up with G10 and I waxed it all up with Farcela G3 wax.. seems to be really good stuff.
This has saved a lot of time by not rubbing down and re-lacquering the whole job and looks a treat, the flanges are brighter for not being lacquered.
New tyres were rolled on this morning and I've now got all three new discs on and the front wheel in the forks but nothing torqued up yet.
I'll get the rear in tomorrow after a deep clean of the swinging arm area.
I have the solid overhead rear caliper mount to fit instead of the previous floating set up, and the corresponding shorter brake line.
The torque pin is already fitted.
This evening I weighed all the floating caliper parts that will not be used again, compared to the simple bracket I'm using.
Floating parts; 827 grams
Rigid parts; 361 grams
Saving; 466 grams.
That's getting on for half a kilo lighter and most of that is unsprung too. I forgot to weigh the Ti disc bolts against the steel ones I binned, so there's a few more unsprung grams saved there too, which I think will easily make the saving up to an honest 1/2 a kilo.
I might look into changing the rear wheel adjuster screws for Ti, which could amount to a lot as they are very long screws. I made these from stainless threaded rod with stainless cap nuts seized on the ends, as such a long tread on standard bolts of that size is hard to find, dunno if Ti threaded rod is a thing?
The lacquer came off the flanges very easily with 320 wet. Large flakes of it came off when the paper pushed the water underneath it in places. I then went to 1200 wet and finished with Autosol. This should be much easier to keep good in the future by simply re-polishing, the lacquer was clearly too brittle and poorly attached to the polished flanges.
The painted portions compounded up with G10 and I waxed it all up with Farcela G3 wax.. seems to be really good stuff.
This has saved a lot of time by not rubbing down and re-lacquering the whole job and looks a treat, the flanges are brighter for not being lacquered.
New tyres were rolled on this morning and I've now got all three new discs on and the front wheel in the forks but nothing torqued up yet.
I'll get the rear in tomorrow after a deep clean of the swinging arm area.
I have the solid overhead rear caliper mount to fit instead of the previous floating set up, and the corresponding shorter brake line.
The torque pin is already fitted.
This evening I weighed all the floating caliper parts that will not be used again, compared to the simple bracket I'm using.
Floating parts; 827 grams
Rigid parts; 361 grams
Saving; 466 grams.
That's getting on for half a kilo lighter and most of that is unsprung too. I forgot to weigh the Ti disc bolts against the steel ones I binned, so there's a few more unsprung grams saved there too, which I think will easily make the saving up to an honest 1/2 a kilo.
I might look into changing the rear wheel adjuster screws for Ti, which could amount to a lot as they are very long screws. I made these from stainless threaded rod with stainless cap nuts seized on the ends, as such a long tread on standard bolts of that size is hard to find, dunno if Ti threaded rod is a thing?
I can now get the front end all buttoned up. I wanted to just take one of the front calipers to try and get a paint matched to it.
I've been trying to find Ducati Magnesium Engine Gold to put on the engine cases with absolutely no joy whatsoever for months now.
I found a custom paint shop locally this morning and managed to find a colour from a big bundle of swatches, that is fairly close to the caliper and I think echoes the tone of the Mag-gold, which I could have mixed into an aerosol and put satin lacquer over. The very helpful chappie also messaged a mate of his in the trade who has recently pained some Ducati covers in what we think is the right colour. It looks fairly hopeful, but we'll see.. It's been so frustrating.
Whilst operating at the front I have circumvented repainting the headlamp shell, which I had intended to do in the "light-spark" slight metal flake finish that was on my first Monster. Instead a good compounding with my G10 and a wax has brought it up luverly, so a little more time saved. That set of Farcela compounds and wax is saving me a fortune.
I also didn't have to change my little digital clock that I fitted into the dash. I found a connection had been pulled apart, probably by some interfering mechanic who was only supposed to be doing the valve clearances! (It was Carl Harrison! I now know why Capo had far from good words to say about him!)
My two tanks are now in a good coat of primer which I have nearly finished prepping for base coat and I have a job ahead of making a lot of space in the bike shed, but too much admin to do this evening to get in the shed!
I had a major memory loss this afternoon and completely forgot not to buy another motorbike! Doh!
I've been trying to find Ducati Magnesium Engine Gold to put on the engine cases with absolutely no joy whatsoever for months now.
I found a custom paint shop locally this morning and managed to find a colour from a big bundle of swatches, that is fairly close to the caliper and I think echoes the tone of the Mag-gold, which I could have mixed into an aerosol and put satin lacquer over. The very helpful chappie also messaged a mate of his in the trade who has recently pained some Ducati covers in what we think is the right colour. It looks fairly hopeful, but we'll see.. It's been so frustrating.
Whilst operating at the front I have circumvented repainting the headlamp shell, which I had intended to do in the "light-spark" slight metal flake finish that was on my first Monster. Instead a good compounding with my G10 and a wax has brought it up luverly, so a little more time saved. That set of Farcela compounds and wax is saving me a fortune.
I also didn't have to change my little digital clock that I fitted into the dash. I found a connection had been pulled apart, probably by some interfering mechanic who was only supposed to be doing the valve clearances! (It was Carl Harrison! I now know why Capo had far from good words to say about him!)
My two tanks are now in a good coat of primer which I have nearly finished prepping for base coat and I have a job ahead of making a lot of space in the bike shed, but too much admin to do this evening to get in the shed!
I had a major memory loss this afternoon and completely forgot not to buy another motorbike! Doh!
Thanks Mike.
I could have (and still can) gone further with the weight saving on the rear brake.
I did put new Ti caliper bolts and bleed nipple in, but I could have also replaced the cap head caliper halves pinch bolts and banjo bolt with Ti..
The big ally bracket itself could be lightened with a big hole in the large flat area, or a handful of smaller ones. There's also a large square and seemingly unnecessary boss where the axle goes through which could be "gas-flowed".
A big saving could be made by replacing the rather chunky solid steel torque pin with a Ti version and the bolt that holds it is a substantial M10 x 30 cap head, so minus many grams going to Ti with that!
I imagine you'd have to make a hole in your Meccanomex arm to mount the pin though?
I could have (and still can) gone further with the weight saving on the rear brake.
I did put new Ti caliper bolts and bleed nipple in, but I could have also replaced the cap head caliper halves pinch bolts and banjo bolt with Ti..
The big ally bracket itself could be lightened with a big hole in the large flat area, or a handful of smaller ones. There's also a large square and seemingly unnecessary boss where the axle goes through which could be "gas-flowed".
A big saving could be made by replacing the rather chunky solid steel torque pin with a Ti version and the bolt that holds it is a substantial M10 x 30 cap head, so minus many grams going to Ti with that!
I imagine you'd have to make a hole in your Meccanomex arm to mount the pin though?
I believe the H stands for High speed - the C3 clearance being slightly looser means they only technically perform at their best under high temperature/high speed use so, in theory at least, a bit 'loose' when cold/low speed running (that's my excuse anyway officer).
But, due to lack of lubrication (sealed with grease) and that they run fast, C3 is specified for wheel bearings whereas a bearing fitted inside an engine, for example would not be a C3 (and likely not have the seals) as it would be running in oil.
There are also occasions where you would remove 1 seal so that oil can get in/out of a bearing but just on the one side, e.g. on the end of a 2V Ducati camshaft to allow oil to lubricate it but prevent it leaking out of the cap.
The SKF bearing you mention is rated at 14,000rpm as per; https://www.skf.com/uk/productinfo/productid-6002-2RSH/C3
Not sure what that relates to in MPH though...
Funnily enough I did this calc for 10000rpm a few days ago. and it was nearly Mach 1.
14,000 is about 875mph or Mach 1 point something depending on height above sea level.
It could be a good deal more if you factor in the inevitable tyre growth at that rpm.
Apparently Guy Martin is trying to achieve 300mph on a motorcycle.
14,000 is about 875mph or Mach 1 point something depending on height above sea level.
It could be a good deal more if you factor in the inevitable tyre growth at that rpm.
Apparently Guy Martin is trying to achieve 300mph on a motorcycle.
Hope he's not skimped on the wheel bearings then...
I didn't have many minutes on the project yesterday, what with riding around looking for paint and then welcoming a new friend into the stable.
Today was spent having a major clear-out and revamp in the shed to make room for a threesome. Then I set about torqueing up the calipers and banjos on the front.
Bleeding the brakes took much longer than I thought it should! I had two new bleed tubes with non-return valves on the calipers and a tube draining into a paper cup on the master.
No joy even getting any fluid past the master for ages. In the end I got a big syringe and pumped some up through the caliper nipples. I still had to work round all the bleeders in turn several times. Not sure why it was so stubborn?
I'll check it in the morning and see if I can get any more air out. I have a brake, but the lever could be a bit firmer. Might have to consider a master seal kit if it's no better.
Today was spent having a major clear-out and revamp in the shed to make room for a threesome. Then I set about torqueing up the calipers and banjos on the front.
Bleeding the brakes took much longer than I thought it should! I had two new bleed tubes with non-return valves on the calipers and a tube draining into a paper cup on the master.
No joy even getting any fluid past the master for ages. In the end I got a big syringe and pumped some up through the caliper nipples. I still had to work round all the bleeders in turn several times. Not sure why it was so stubborn?
I'll check it in the morning and see if I can get any more air out. I have a brake, but the lever could be a bit firmer. Might have to consider a master seal kit if it's no better.
slob
.
surely mach1 is about 100mph lower in norfolk (~761 @ sea level)
i was taught to fully pack chassis bearings with grease, litterally big blob of grease in palm of hand and press bearing into it until the grease is forced through the races. no gaps reducing opportunity for water ingress, maybe i’ve been doing it wrong for decades?
i was taught to fully pack chassis bearings with grease, litterally big blob of grease in palm of hand and press bearing into it until the grease is forced through the races. no gaps reducing opportunity for water ingress, maybe i’ve been doing it wrong for decades?
All the carbon bodywork is now prepped and mounted on various bits of mdf ready for a professional coat of gloss lacquer.
The two tanks are also prepped and ready for basecoat, also at my mate's spray shop in Oakham. (Ashwell actually.) We've booked to do it in a couple of weeks time, so that will mark the final stages of completion when it comes home.
With the bike shed empty of prepped painted parts I can now concentrate on the messy jobs.
I'm happy that the wheels and brakes are finished now, with the heat-shrink on the brake line ends being shrunk into place this evening.
I'm really pleased with the neatness of the new rear brake installation.
It's half a kilo lighter than before and I could go even further, by fitting Ti caliper half pinch bolts and making a Ti torque pin with Ti bolt.
Bitza has kindly offered me first refusal on his Ti sprocket carrier drive pins. If that comes off I will probably bite the bullet and make up a pair of Ti wheel adjuster bolts, that would then leave the steel axle.. Maybe one day?
There's new front discs and a pair of 4 pad calipers to try out on the front.
For the first time in about thirty years I'm switching to sintered HH pads, having exclusively used organic since fitting EBC Greenstuff pads in a twin disc conversion on a 1972 Triumph TR6P. Funnily enough I've just come full circle and acquired another Tiger that I'm already considering for twin discs.
I thought the front brake was hard to bleed and suspected a dodgy master. it felt a bit "rubbery" on the lever although I'm sure all the air was out.
Over the week I've tried the lever every day and it has got firmer and no longer makes that little squelchy sound when I squeeze it, so I can only conclude that it was hiding some tiny bubbles in there somewhere that defied bleeding. I'm happy with it now, just as well as it appears that seal kits are not available for these masters!
Equally as frustrating, is the search for Ducati Magnesium Engine Gold paint for my engine covers! I've written off getting any of the real thing.
An experiment with mixing different colours of caliper paint samples also failed conclusively. It just curdled when I mixed the colours together.
I have now found a really helpful custom spray shop in Dereham, who let me go through packs of Gold swatches. I've found a colour that is close to my new front calipers and I think it will fit the bill even if it it aint true Ducati Mag Oro.
The oil is dropped and I will start to prep for the new cover paint, which is not a heat resistant paint as such, but then I did my first Monster with cellulose and it passed muster, so here goes nothing!
Here's a before shot with the 12 year old VHT Gold.
The two tanks are also prepped and ready for basecoat, also at my mate's spray shop in Oakham. (Ashwell actually.) We've booked to do it in a couple of weeks time, so that will mark the final stages of completion when it comes home.
With the bike shed empty of prepped painted parts I can now concentrate on the messy jobs.
I'm happy that the wheels and brakes are finished now, with the heat-shrink on the brake line ends being shrunk into place this evening.
I'm really pleased with the neatness of the new rear brake installation.
It's half a kilo lighter than before and I could go even further, by fitting Ti caliper half pinch bolts and making a Ti torque pin with Ti bolt.
Bitza has kindly offered me first refusal on his Ti sprocket carrier drive pins. If that comes off I will probably bite the bullet and make up a pair of Ti wheel adjuster bolts, that would then leave the steel axle.. Maybe one day?
There's new front discs and a pair of 4 pad calipers to try out on the front.
For the first time in about thirty years I'm switching to sintered HH pads, having exclusively used organic since fitting EBC Greenstuff pads in a twin disc conversion on a 1972 Triumph TR6P. Funnily enough I've just come full circle and acquired another Tiger that I'm already considering for twin discs.
I thought the front brake was hard to bleed and suspected a dodgy master. it felt a bit "rubbery" on the lever although I'm sure all the air was out.
Over the week I've tried the lever every day and it has got firmer and no longer makes that little squelchy sound when I squeeze it, so I can only conclude that it was hiding some tiny bubbles in there somewhere that defied bleeding. I'm happy with it now, just as well as it appears that seal kits are not available for these masters!
Equally as frustrating, is the search for Ducati Magnesium Engine Gold paint for my engine covers! I've written off getting any of the real thing.
An experiment with mixing different colours of caliper paint samples also failed conclusively. It just curdled when I mixed the colours together.
I have now found a really helpful custom spray shop in Dereham, who let me go through packs of Gold swatches. I've found a colour that is close to my new front calipers and I think it will fit the bill even if it it aint true Ducati Mag Oro.
The oil is dropped and I will start to prep for the new cover paint, which is not a heat resistant paint as such, but then I did my first Monster with cellulose and it passed muster, so here goes nothing!
Here's a before shot with the 12 year old VHT Gold.
Last edited:
walkingpictures
preneolithic frebie
Looking good Gazza 
Just home from Oakham after a very busy day!
I carefully took all my prepped carbon and the two primered tanks, we started painting mid morning after setting everything up.
Colin mixed my paint and loaded into his gun, then thrust it into my hand in the spray booth with the words "There you go."
Not quite what I was expecting, but with his gun properly set up and in a well lit, heated and filtered spray booth, it went much better then it had been going last year at home.
The advice and guidance of an seasoned professional is priceless and worth far more than my self-education. (read; years of mistakes!)
I put the base coat on and then we decaled and masked. The tank for my bike was sprayed in Gold from his gun, by me and went well.
The carbon was set up while the Gold dried and then the clearcoat came out. I was very relieved that he smoothed in at this point and put the lacquer on. I would have cocked it up for sure. His technique was very different to mine and I learned a bit more.
Lovely to see glistening tanks and carbon emerging from the clouds of spray though.
So it's down to some other work on the bike this week until I can get back and pick it all up when it's it's nice and hard.
Many thanks to my buddy of many years, Colin of Ashwell Wheel and Body Shop, Oakham. 0771777163. Or PM "Colin" on here if you need professional re-finishing services.
I carefully took all my prepped carbon and the two primered tanks, we started painting mid morning after setting everything up.
Colin mixed my paint and loaded into his gun, then thrust it into my hand in the spray booth with the words "There you go."
Not quite what I was expecting, but with his gun properly set up and in a well lit, heated and filtered spray booth, it went much better then it had been going last year at home.
The advice and guidance of an seasoned professional is priceless and worth far more than my self-education. (read; years of mistakes!)
I put the base coat on and then we decaled and masked. The tank for my bike was sprayed in Gold from his gun, by me and went well.
The carbon was set up while the Gold dried and then the clearcoat came out. I was very relieved that he smoothed in at this point and put the lacquer on. I would have cocked it up for sure. His technique was very different to mine and I learned a bit more.
Lovely to see glistening tanks and carbon emerging from the clouds of spray though.
So it's down to some other work on the bike this week until I can get back and pick it all up when it's it's nice and hard.
Many thanks to my buddy of many years, Colin of Ashwell Wheel and Body Shop, Oakham. 0771777163. Or PM "Colin" on here if you need professional re-finishing services.
Thanks Jeff.
I had carefully prepped the carbon without going through to the imperfect translucent Gold stripes I put on 11 years ago. Whilst not particularly wanting to re-stripe it, I thought it would be nicer to preserve the original with all it's faults as I've grown fond of it's character.
I now have an imperfect No1 in laurels to match on the front of the tank!
The Tank with the genuine Ducati Silver decals is bog standard in Rosso Red, all clean inside with clear breather pipes, and is now up for grabs if anyone has the need.
It is from a 2000 M900ie and will fit 2000-2002 M900's for sure and most likely a few other models, but the cut-outs underneath may not work with different airbox/battery combos.
We did try it on Dacs 2005 M1000Sie and it fitted apart from contacting the seam on the airbox lid at the front. That could have been remedied by moulding the lid down a little with a hot air gun, but how far do want to go?
I had carefully prepped the carbon without going through to the imperfect translucent Gold stripes I put on 11 years ago. Whilst not particularly wanting to re-stripe it, I thought it would be nicer to preserve the original with all it's faults as I've grown fond of it's character.
I now have an imperfect No1 in laurels to match on the front of the tank!
The Tank with the genuine Ducati Silver decals is bog standard in Rosso Red, all clean inside with clear breather pipes, and is now up for grabs if anyone has the need.
It is from a 2000 M900ie and will fit 2000-2002 M900's for sure and most likely a few other models, but the cut-outs underneath may not work with different airbox/battery combos.
We did try it on Dacs 2005 M1000Sie and it fitted apart from contacting the seam on the airbox lid at the front. That could have been remedied by moulding the lid down a little with a hot air gun, but how far do want to go?