Bikesure_adrianflux

Important: Please Read!

slob

slob

.
Joined
Jul 19, 2003
Messages
9,916
Location
East London
Bike
Multiple Monsters
Hi folks

Please take a few minutes to read the following:

This is not an easy message for me to post, for those who aren't aware I had a serious accident in May 2019, breaking multiple vertebrae and ribs, puncturing a lung as well as tearing two ligaments in one of my knees and breaking an ankle. What doctors like to call 'life changing injuries'.

I have been working fairly relentlessly to recover my fitness and movement over the last three years, however it's becoming increasingly clear I am unable to continue riding sports bikes and I'm still trying to work out if I'll be able to ride any of my beloved Monsters again. (Please don't start throwing suggestions about bike modification at me, I'm an engineer and mechanic, just accept I know what I'm talking about here and I might scream if anyone else says ‘thumb brake’ without understanding my injuries fully.

I feel I should have stepped down a couple of years ago but have hung on through the worst of the CoViD pandemic, as this was clearly a very difficult time for anyone to take over running a bike club during multiple lockdowns.

After discussion with Pedro(VP) and Liz(Sec.) it's time for us to step down and for the club membership to elect a new board to take over.

I took over Presidency from Pedro in 2010, who'd been in the role for three years and he has been VP since. Liz has been in post since 2018, so it's about time some new blood took over anyway.

Just to complicate matters a little more, Ducati are changing the name of affiliated clubs next year, from 'Desmo Owners Clubs' to 'Ducati Official Clubs'. All clubs will be called DOC|'Club Name', which can't contain the word 'Ducati' or 'Owner', as such we would have to change the name to something like 'DOC|UK Monster' in order to remain eligible for affiliation with the factory. This is something else the membership needs to decide on collectively: Continue as 'UK Monster Owners Club' and split with Ducati or change the name to something DMH finds acceptable. I'm certainly not about to comply with this and then just walk away leaving someone else to sort things out (Mr Cameron).

I sold banner advertising to finance the forum hosting for 2022. As an officially affiliated club we need to elect a President, Vice President and Secretary.

Since we don't charge membership fees, we don't require a Treasurer, if that changes we'd need one of those too.

The current board will continue 'til the end of July, ensuring that I can help anyone with issues relating to WDW22 (22-24/7/2022) and distributing any membership kits, assuming the factory manage to send them out in a timely fashion, unless we can complete this process sooner.

I'd also like to offer massive thanks to everyone who has helped as a board member, regional rep, event organiser or otherwise contributed to the forum since I've been here, you've made this one of the nicest corners of the Internet and I've made some great friends, attended some absolutely awesome events, all over Europe and covered well over 100k miles on my Monsters in the last 19 years. I hope I manage to find a way to continue Monstering!

Just to complete the picture, we have always defined a member as a forum user who owns a Monster and lives in the UK or Ireland (or an expat).
Ducati define a member as one of our members who has chosen to be affiliated with the club through MyDucati app or website (but bizzarely isn't bothered if you even ride a motorcycle). The club needs at least 50 such registered members to qualify for affiliation and a supporting dealer, in our case Moto Rapido.

cont...
 
The current DOC regulations define:

President

The D.O.C. President is responsible for the club, is its legal representative, promotes all activities in compliance with these Regulations, guarantees the democratic management of club affairs, is the key contact with Ducati and the Local D.O.C. contact person designated by Ducati.

Vice President

The Vice President is responsible for D.O.C. activities in the territory. He manages D.O.C. initiatives inspired by the suggestions provided in paragraph 3.8. of these Regulations; prepares the calendar of events at the beginning of each year; organizes activities, informs members of such activities and documents activities (photos, video, texts) to share them with Ducati and the other clubs. He co-operates with Ducati to offer an evaluation of events with a nation-wide audience and helps select partners to be involved in such activities. Finally, he is an ambassador at the club's members regarding issues relates to safe riding and observance of applicable law and responsible behaviour among D.O.C. members.

Secretary

The Secretary to the D.O.C. fulfils formalities relating to club activity, such as the management of the members' details and the data entry in the system. He organizes the meetings of the Board of Management and of club members and writes meeting reports where required. He ensures that members fill any insurance documents/liability waivers for test rides and/or track days. He sets up, maintains and keep up-to-date the D.O.C. document archive.

Treasurer

The Treasurer of the D.O.C. takes care of accounting/administration, prepares yearly budgets and year-end reports; collects membership fees (if any) from members, allocates resources to activities as agreed with the other members of the Board of Management and with the President; manages cash flows from activities and draws up at least annual financial reports for submission to the Board of Management and members; keeps track of revenues and expenses arising out of D.O.C. fulfilments with due care and promptly informs the competent body of any deviations from budget plans. Considering the delicate nature of Treasurers' responsibilities, Ducati encourages clubs to establish a maximum two-year non-renewable term for this office.

I will forward the full regs to anyone who wants to stand up or who just can't sleep.

Rob
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Feel free to PM or email me (rob <at> ukmonster <dot> co <dot> uk) if you want to discuss less publicly but I aim to make this process as open and democratic as possible!
 
Rob, I understand. Better you use your energy on you. You have done 77 times more than enough. Thanks!

I've been president for 8 years now. In Norway. Established 1989. Proper website, paid membership, rides, track days. The whole package. Except we drew the line at DOC which we find unprofessional and one-sided. It's made to get them email adresses and leave all the work to presidents. For a pin and two euros off the museum price... They have never done a good job for the clubs. We've told them to forget about demanding specific behaviour from clubs, but leave us to manage the clubs - members sign up for DOC status at Ducati.com, choose a connected club if they so wish and then pay for a welcome kit if they want it. Ducati must do the work and pay the price if they want the email adresses. Not us. If I'm not mistaken, the DOC work isn't rewarding for presidents, so maybe that's a better way for UKMOC too... drop the DOC stuff and focus on yourselves. My point, among many, being that recruiting a new board can be easier without the being DOC.

.... and of course anyone mentioning facebook will not make it through the night. Not suitable as a club base.
 
Rob, I totally understand your decision to step down and also how difficult it must have been for you to take this step. I wish you well for your continued rehab and recovery and hope you manage to stay positive and get to the best result possible.

I’d also like to offer huge thanks to you (and rest of the board) for all your work running the club and keeping it the friendly, helpful place it is over very many years. Sadly I’ve not got over for UKMOC events to see folks in person for some years now, being mostly abroad these days. But I’m sure I’m not alone in finding the forum an oasis of calm on the internet - it’s helpful, caring and inspiring on bikes and life in general. And the knowledge base here is just immense, I’ve lost count of the tips (and parts) I’ve picked up here over the years.

Thanks again and take care,

David
 
Rob, I'd like to pass on my thanks for the work you Pedro and Liz have done for the forum, I've not been a Ducati owner for long but I have enjoyed being a member here (so far). I wish you all the best for the future. I hope it continues in the same vein with or without the DOC.
 
It will be a sad day but very understandable. Thanks for doing a grand job all of you tbh. I fully support whoever steps up to the table. New blood will run through the club for sure.

Thank you
 
Sorry for my late input into this. It has come as no surprise to me and I’m pleased for Rob that he has finally come to this decision.

I am however surprised to actually hear the full extent of his injuries and have to admire his down playing this over the three awful years. I know it’s been bloody hard and I get the impression that all the “get well soons” have worn a bit thin, even though of course we all want to extend sympathies and best wishes… My apologies for mentioning a thumb brake some time ago!.

As to the future of the club; I think the most important thing is this forum in more or less its present quaint form. Granted it could be easier to post pictures, although that’s not really a big deal. I do understand there are some deeper operating issues behind the curtains, which it would be really good to resolve without changing the forum superficially.

To this end I believe that part of the new management definitely needs to be a committed and competent IT person or persons, who can look after the forum.

Probably the most contentious issue is the required name change to comply with DOC.
I personally do not want to see the name changed. I like the name and I like the logo.

Neither do I see the point of staying with DOC, especially in the light of their dictations.
I only signed up with DOC to get a free T-shirt and I have no other interest beyond that. The advantages for us members is limited to some cheap freebies once a year which are out of date by the time they arrive and as mentioned by others, a few dollars off certain items and events offered by Ducati. There is always the option of joining a DOC club to gain these discounts if it means anything to you. I say leave DOC.

Maybe it would be possible to have a referendum on that issue alone. (I believe there is a poll facility on the forum?)

My concern with leaving DOC would be the funding for the forum, I’m not sure how that is done and whether or not leaving DOC would impact that. I don’t think we want a subscription? Although I probably wouldn’t object personally. As Rob mentions this would imply the need for a treasurer.

I’ve been the Norfolk rep for about 8 years I think and have been involved with a number of club events on a national scale. I love this club and my Monster. It would be great to be involved in running the club in some way, but in my case definitely as part of a team of enthusiasts not just the DOC designated officers, but all who would pitch in and help, maybe even with occasional physical committee meetings? Although we can do that online these days.
I’m not getting involved if DOC is… Just sayin’..

One little thing; Haven’t Grumpy and JP been VP in the time since 2010?

Here’s hoping for some meaningful discussion about this
 
Hi Rob

Sorry to hear your recovery has not been straightforward.

Massive thanks to all you have done over the years for UKMOC (and Liz and Pedro).

For what it's worth, I think UKMOC should continue as UKMOC and ditch affiliation with Ducati as an official DOC. I don't think the benefits of affiliation are worth the ball-ache of dealing with Bologna (even speaking as one of the minority of members who has benefitted from discounted WDW tickets on 4 occasions and several Ducati factory/museum visits).

Over the years the emphasis from Ducati has been less on DOCs being factory supported clubs, more on factory directed/dictated clubs. It was bad enough having to change the font of the O in the UKMOC logo to comply with Bologna's rules, but to me having to change the club's name is a step too far.

The real value in UKMOC is the internet forum, with the collected experience and expertise of the members, particularly about Monster matters - brains to pick about technical issues, aftermarket parts & modifications. That, and the friendship and social events e.g. Weekenders. We need to find a way of keeping this aspect of UKMOC going (not involving Facebook).

If it's a question of the cost of keeping the forum hosted, other forums offer an opportunity to donate towards running costs (rather than having official "membership" with the need for a committee, treasurer etc). Could something like Patreon, Ko-fi etc be used if disaffiliation makes it harder to cover costs through banner advertising?.

I realise I have been a rubbish member the last couple of years (retreating into my own little off-internet world, since the bike forums reminded me too much of what I was missing during lockdown). I can see that while some of the long standing members are still stalwarts, there are newer Monsteristi who have risen to the challenge (Moco1961 taking on organising Weekenders in an exceptionally difficult period), which is fantastic to see.

Right now, I can't see myself ever owning another bike apart from my 696s, and I really hope that UKMOC as I know and love it will continue, but not as a DOC given the direction of travel.
 
Slob, Pedro & Liz, thanks for all the many hours you have spent providing us with our UKMOC. You've done a great job!
 
I'm sure I'm just expressing the feelings of all the members when I say how much your efforts (and those of Pedro and Liz) are appreciated. As you've already mentioned, this club is "one of the nicest corners of the internet..." (if proof were needed - http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=59601).

There's a real generosity of spirit here, which is lacking in most other forums, and I'd say a lot of that can be put down to your stewardship. Whoever takes over your position will have some very large Alpinestars to fill!

As Mr Gazza said, I think another attraction of the club is it's 'quaintness' and I'd be keen to keep that.

As to factory affiliation, I'm not particularly fussed either way but, if a name change is needed, why not keep the UKMOC initials and just change the 'O' from 'Owners' to, say, 'Obsessives'?
 
I can understand the decision you have made and as others have already said I am hugely appreciative of the efforts you have all made to make this the great place that it is.
good forums are more of a rarity in recient years as so many have moved to be Facebook based and lost all character.
I will follow and support whoever steps up to the mark.
 
Donations works. At least in a place like this with plenty club feeling. No treasurer required if DOC is out - just a trusted leader.

The big step is to host pictures. It's not very expensive, but becomes expensive after a few years. Can be solved by downsizing or even deleting old pictures. Or: "Reach a limit, donate a pound"

Risky business, but it lifts forums a lot.
 
Also like to pass on my thanks to Rob and the rest of the board, the UKMOC is a great club to be part of and this is due to the efforts of the team.

I would like to see the club remain independent and forum based as opposed to a homogenised/sanitised version that Audi/Ducati approve of.
 
I'll try and answer everything that's been raised so far, let me know if you feel I've missed anything, sorry my mind is so chaotic:

Lars(stopintime) makes a good point about the DOC affiliation. I feel it probably mostly works very well for Italian clubs, where small regional clubs are tied to their local dealer, less well for the rest of the World, especially in the UK where we have national clubs that predate any factory affilation.
For example I received an email notification of the #werideasone initiative, which was meant to get as many DOC members as possible down to their local dealer for a 'global rideout', 48 hours before the event was due to take place, hardly enough time to get anyone anywhere! presumably because I'm not a Facebook user?
However I'm aware that we have quite a few members who are not active on the forum but love to go to WDW and really look forward to any annual offical trinkets.

I'll also take this opportunity to point out that we've never restricted forum access to UK Monster Owners, the contribution of stopintime and many others makes this forum a richer place, even if he's not technically a UKMOC member. The same goes for pillion passengers, I know I wouldn't be without mine! When members have sold their Monsters, I've always said I'd give them a year's grace with DOC affiliation, it's amazing how often owners regret the sale and come back with another Monster shortly afterwards.

Also, tied to the myDucati website is a DOC management platform, which allows management of affiliation/memberships etc. and has a handy mailout tool for communication with members but has never been open to anyone but the Presidents, making a mockery of the VP and Secretary roles as defined by DMH.
I am on a global whatsapp group of DOC presidents and this is a regular gripe recently, but is as nothing to the name change thing, it's a real pain for most clubs, most of whom have paid memberships and are effectively companies with trademarks financial requirements.
Will our fellow DOC: Ducati Owners Club GB, just be know as 'GB' from now on (after nearly 40 years!).
The Scottish club dropped affilation earlier this year, they were the only other free to join DOC in the UK.
I figured we were better working with DMH than independently, although I feel the nature of the relationship has been declining since 2012. We'd always had a very good relationship with DUK although I haven't met the new CEO since Tim left.
As I said in the OP I don't feel it's my place to make the call on how 'we' go forward as a club, as I walk out of the door, but I know what my gut feeling is right now!

I agree with Lars and MrsC about Facebook being totally unsuitable for running a club, certainly things like technical info would disappear into 'digital soup' and never be findable again. Never mind about my general feelings about Facebook, I can't believe anyone would still want to be on there in light of the revelations in the last few years, no matter how convenient it is. Its mission is to replace every forum and other means of communication and silo off its slice of the Internet for the enrichment of Mr Suka-burg but for ease of use, Facebook is more or less the benchmark for whatever forum software a club uses I'm afraid.

I've always tried to keep the forum free, as it was when I joined in 2003, this has meant Pedro and I do the forum support and our hosting provider (another former member) takes care of the Server itself. It also had the bonus of meaning we didn't go the same way as at least three clubs I can think of, that imploded due to financial 'irregularities'.
This also presents a potential pitfall for a subscription/donation model, as soon as payment is involved complete financial openness is an absolute must have.

cont...
 
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...

I bought some alternate forum software (the same as that other channel that most of you are well aware of), stuck it on AWS and have tried migrating this forum's data to it a couple of times with varying degrees of success, in order to solve the broken picture upload issue that bugs the current forum as well as a few other issues, however repeated requests for anyone with relevant computer skills to share the admin burden have been met with no response whatsoever and tying myself to supporting a new system with little or no help was always a non-starter for me, especially as I quit two decades of working in IT because it was starting to make me very miserable indeed. I've also been very preoccupied with my recovery, which has to take precedence for me.
Lars is also right that over the years hosting photos has the potential to become an out of control expense, again I don't think that should be my call right now.

Yes Gary, we can set up polls for anything you like.

I inherited a small building society account from benson (who was joint President with Pedro before me) however this was almost useless, with no chequebook and no facility for internet banking, leading me to use my own bank account for money in/out. This is essentially just hosting costs plus the odd sundry expense. The building society has since stopped doing free club/charity accounts and I 'just' need to fill in the ridiculous international money laundering forms to get the balance out. It's spare change FFS. I am piecing together all the receipts etc. to work out which way the balance is owing, to me or the club. I will make the 'books' available and hand over any balance when I go.
I'll also hand over any freebies I've received from Ducati at WPMs etc, that I'm sitting on for when someone needs weekender raffle prizes etc. These tend to be end of line merchandise items that are left over when this year's stuff comes out.

I didn't specifically list others who have served as regional reps, weekender organisers and on the 'board', as I figured accidentally missing someone off might be more offensive than not naming everyone personally. They know who they are and are well aware that the more you put into the club, the more you get out!

Since my decision to stick with the DOC thing, we've been restricted to who we can advertise (DMH won't allow DOCs to advertise unoffical dealers or services they see as direct competition) so our hosting for 2022 is tied to DUK advertising. This means the club needs the three board members, at least to the end of the year, after that the club could return to whatever the collective membership wants. Otherwise the residual advertising money might need paying back and I'll just switch off the lights on my way out, frankly I'd have felt better about dying on a roadside near Aylesbury than doing that.

The many messages of support and sympathy I've received here and by email are heartwarming, it's not what this post is about. My previous attempts to stand down (2015 and 2017 IIRC) have invariably been met with 'you're doing a grand job, carry on', which I don't think has been good for the club in the long run. I have been progressively running out of momentum to take the UKMOC forward even before my accident. A club of mostly middle aged men, who are dying off with frightening regularity won't have a great future.
Despite the 'trellis purists', we need to welcome ALL Monster owners. I'm genuinely upset that I didn't get to test ride the latest generation of bikes, apparenty they're an absolute hoot. People almost always tend to resist change to some degree, get over it!

I also need to talk to DMH/DUK and find out what the process is for replacing the board members from their point of view, since I'm the one who signed the 2022 regs etc. ...assuming I'm not forced to take the 'nuclear option'.

Rob
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It makes a sad read Rob. Feels like the end of an era. You were there when I joined and became a friend of mine. That won't change for sure!
I love this little club and the forum, the get togethers' weekenders' etc. It's a really cool atmosphere. I don't give a chuff about any DOC affiliation or corporate BS. I would like to keep things 'here' between us all as it is now. Being in Warwickshire, there's very little UKMOC activity, that should change and Tracey & I don't mind looking at organising local club meets/rideouts etc if called upon.

Take care my friend, and hopefully catch you somewhere, sometime.
 
My thoughts for what they’re worth…

Definitely need new leadership, the current team have been in post way too long and whilst I’ve got a lot out of the club over the years, I just don’t have the time now to put my heart and soul into it as much as it needs.

The whole name change thing is bloody ridiculous imho, we’re the UKMOC and should stay that way even if it means ditching the links to the factory. The returns for blindly following their demands aren’t worth the effort and the club identity is worth more. As far as revenue is concerned to run this show, then ditching DMH opens up the option for all the decent independent workshops to advertise, many of whom the members already use, especially with the older generation of bikes.

I’ve spoke to Rob recently and fully understand and support his position, especially when dealing with the aftermath of his crash and the lingering issues he’s dealing with. As has been said, the more you put in the more you get out so we need someone to step up and keep this great club alive and kicking in the future.

I still have my two monsters and will always be grateful for the club in terms of technical help but more so for the friends I’ve made on here, it really is valuable asset to many and so deserves to continue without DMH dictating how we run things in return for some cheap freebies.

Ped
Soon to be ex-VP
 
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