Identity Cards

While a little bored in the coffee break at an NHS conference on Tuesday I was reading the paper and perusing an article about the impending introduction of Identity Cards in this country......personally, apart from the the absolute cheek of having to pay for them ourselves, I don't really have any problems with them........just wondered what other people thought?

comments? votes? or just ignore me if this has been done before and I never noticed

we've lived with them for decades in France.. an serves more good than bad, in my opinion.
but then.. France is a bit of a police state. and by that, i dont mean that Sting drops in often ...

Problem with these things (as per any official documentation) is the ease at which forgers can reproduce. You will never catch whom you really want because unfortunately any decent outlaw has the common sense and foresight to always be one step ahead. Cards are not even close to infallible. If they are determined to keep tabs on everyone in the country (as f they haven’t got enough to do and don't already) then the only way is branding at birth. Not something I would sign up to.

good point.. you can forged them easily...
but to me, if it gives mr bobby in the street the power to nail some drunk barechested asshole for shouting and pissing in the street at 3am in the morning (or at least get his 'real' id in the big log), then to me that's brings some good.
of course, it's opened to abuse.. but which would you rather have ? the old philosophical question: would you rather have justice or order...
very very tricky..
the ID card is no solution to every problem, but maybe it's just something else towards it.

I've got no problem with having one, but then I've got nothing to hide!

expenseive, simplistic, pointless (we have plenty of ID as it is) and real criminals will work around them as they recquire easily forged id to set up in the first place. its blunkett playing the daily mail fear game, perhaps spending more on sensible policing and urban regeneration would be a better idea...nah too complicated. lets impress joe public with whizz bang technology "yes folks just like in minority report!" and stir up more paranoia? who is it this week? assylum seekers? mad mullahs? gippos? single mums? paedophilles? chat rooms? small number plates? road protesters? huntsmen? hunt saboteurs?...oh its that liz hurley, she's lovely but look at that slag jordan...reckon that peter andre looks like an A-rab......

Point taken Stef but surely to justify the vast expenditure of a scheme like this (and given we will have to pay for the cards themselves directly) it seems as though we should be using it to tackle real criminals. Drunken lager louts are a nusience etc but we all know that even if apprehended, details taken etc bugger all happens about it. if they want us to have cards then they need to assure us thats it is for a valid and consturctive purpose. Collecting data from street urchins is all well and good but does strike me as being pointless given the state of the punishment system in this country.

yes, agreed.
it's the whole line that has to evolve with it. IDs would be pretty useless on their own, unless as you say, harsh punishement follows..it's a difficult balance.
but Al, i get your point on paranoia states, but disagree with one of your statements: i dont think we have any means to give our true ID nowadays.
driving license ? not everyone has one. passport ? i dont carry that around..
birth certificate ? even less !
plus, if they do it well, the ID shouldnt be that easy to fake, at least out of ,most people's league, and at best, more difficult than a passeport.
but anyway, what do i know.. i am not runing for parlement.

My problem with identity cards is that, its all well and good the current government having all sorts of details about us stored onto a computer because we trust them (ahem) but bearing in mind we dont seem to have much of a choice about the cards anyway what further details will they 'request'? DNA? etc etc my problem is where this will lead and what future governments will 'request' from us.

We seem to be in a dangerous situation (in my opinion) where more people vote on pop idol / Im a celebrity, than they do for the election's so who knows what sort of Government the 'mindless masses' will one day vote in?

bottom line is we need more policing. an ID card is a tool that i think they could do with. forget about anti-terrorist and all the blankett crap. this in my opinion is more of a street level thing, just to put a name on the antisocial assholes around, if anything. besides, the governement doesnt need an ID card to keep a record on us.

Originally Posted by stef

besides, the governement doesnt need an ID card to keep a record on us.

Ain't that the truth!

how is an id card going to help on a street level? identifying who some one "is" is not really a problem in this area? there arent thousands on remand in this country simply because they have kept schtum for two weeks and no one knows who they are?! ID/ no ID/ fake ID or otherwise, if witness's see you put a knife in someone the courts wont say "curses! the man with no name! we must free him at once!!" the sad fact is that most street crime is commited by young men who are often employed regular bods so extremely pissed that the next day they dont even recall "throwing the bottle at that girl-smashing the windows of that car-etc etc" booze can make otherwise normal folk behave like twats. Will not carrying an id card be an offence? Id was compulsory for blacks in south africa and the populace of the gestapo forged ghettos remember.

and i'd be more than happy to have my DNA kept in a database, if everyone did the same. would make policing work that much easier.

to answer your point al, the police has two choices at the moment. arrest the guy, or let him go, with only his word to take regarding his name, and a slap on the wrist.
they cant fine him or anything and arresting everyone is just not an option.
if they could establish his real id at street level, file it and mail him a court appearance or a fine, that would be usefull.

they started using video cameras in sheffield, sort of in your face approach.. seem to be calming people down ! now combine this with: "we know your name and your address..." it's a winner !

mine is on a data base! quite handy if I ever get falsely accused of something.....