Your collective wisdom re forks please?

So in which direction would you go if you wished to upgrade your standard non adjustable forks?

Or does it really make 'that' much difference ?

Bearing in mind that a new rear shock will be needed later this year and I may as well bite the bullet (read slap it on the plastic) and go for a Ohlins.

I do not wish to uprate my single disc to double unless absolute requirement though.

I'd keep your standrd forks but get them reworked specifically to your requirements by someone like KAIS, Maxton or K-Tech. They are experts and for about £150 - £200 will change the internal valving, spring rates, oil weight etc, setting them up as you want for your weight and the type of riding you do.

An alternative is to buy some fully adjustable forks but to be honest I think you'll find that the spring and valving in these is not much to shout about and you'll end up getting them rebuilt anyway. An additional problem is taht you can't raise them in the yokes without the bars hitting the adjusters, forcing you down the clip-on route.

BTW I spoke to Mark Brewin (?) at BSD Motorcycle Dvelopments last week about suspension settings for my 900S i.e. and he suggested these settings:

Spring rate of 0.8 or 0.85 kg/mm. Most likely to be 0.8 for road work. Front compression damping wound right off

Front static sag: 24 -22 mm
rider sag: 33mm

They aim to get rider sag to be about 25% of fork travel.

Rear Static sag: 10-12mm
Rider sag: 20mm

Finally, very surprised, Phoenix, that you don't want to upgrade the front brakes. Is this an economic choice or are you happy with the brakes as they are? Personally I find my 900 brakes pretty good but not exceptional. I don't think I'd want to lose half my braking power.

[NattyBoy]

Hi Lynn

If you want new forks..ive got a new boxed set of 916 forks in my stock that id be happy to do a nattyboy deal on !!! These go in without too much fuss and look very trick. They also work well IMO..i did some hard riding on the track with them on my 916, and never felt the need to get them reworked - sure Nige will back this up !! I was going to put them on my 600, but as its going soon, doesnt seem much point.

Secondly, regarding rear shock, dont buy an ohlins rear before youve spoken to stu @ spareshack, I was in the other week enquiring about one for my 888 (same unit as monster), and hed put his name down for a load of bargain stock from his italian supplier - not sure if hes got them yet, but if he has, ask him to put my name on one !!!!

Ref brakes (might be doing myself out of some dosh here with my upgrade kit!!), for general everyday use, I find the single disc setup adequate, but ONLY with braided hoses (which im not sure if youve got ??) I must admit I did have a few hairy moments during some swift riding/braking up fish hill on the way home from arrow mill, but it serves me right for trying to ride my poor ickle hairdryer like a 998 !!!! A leaking fork seal doesnt help either !!!

916 Forks Pic..http://ee.domaindlx.com/nattyboy/916%20forks.jpg

Cheers
Nat

Proto, you want to try pulling the lever harder! My front tyre will chirp when braking hard from 70+mph. Surely there exceptional compared to a hornet!!

Lin, from my experience with my forks.....(I have/had the newer Showa ones off a 2001 900ie which may be different to yours internally).....They were too soft as standard, bottoming out too easliy and wallowing on acceleration and braking. I looked around for a while for an upgrade kit, but nobody seems to do them for the Showa non-adjustable fork. Dave Wood Racing stripped them down, discovered that they already have a progressive spring fitted so played with the oil weight (to stiffen the damping) and oil height (to alter the progressiveness of the spring rate).

Great improvement! Well worth the money. Dave had recorded all the settings so that he can repeat it on other peoples bikes. I think he does this for about £100.

Since then I have fitted a set of Showa adjustable forke off a 900SS and have to say that as standard these are worse than the ones I took off! Dave Wood has twiddled with the adjusters, but they are still worse, so these will be being stripped down before I ride to Italy. The forks seem harsher, feeling much more of the road bumps through the bars and seem to wallow more like the old ones.

As for the rear shock. Ohlins is the way forward (or something similar, I think Eon (overripe&keen) was selling a Technoflex shock)

When I put one on mine it transformed the handling, somehow it's stiffer and smoother at the same time.

As for the brakes, I am changing my calipers for the P4 ones so will have a set of 65mm bolt spacing calipers for sale soon, with hoses but not master cylinder or disks (yet!)

I'd try a straight front wheel while you're at it!

Ahh thanks for the heads up Nat re the shock.
These 916 forks..I'll need a new yoke yes ?
Oh and yes to the single disc, not required and a waste of money afaic when you have correctly maintained brakes and yes braided hoses, which Max has, I fail to see the point of adding further weight etc but then each to their own as i said before.

As a side Nat, got myself another wheel at last so hopefully get that fitted next week and should put paid to me wobbling around Gerrards and everywhere else for that matter too. It's off a early 900 as we discovered at the meet.. keep fingers crossed!

[NattyBoy]

You get the yoke machined mate (ask Terry..think hes done this)..or I could always supply you with a spangly new matching 916 top yoke :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gald to hear you sorted the wheel...pop that one back to me whenever your passing (although I am away from Thursday for 2 weeks).

Oh..and can you wait till after the track day until your uprate your suspenders (ooer misss!!)...dont want you kicking my arse do I ?

:lol:

Cheers!
Nat

Lol @ Chris

It's been said often re Dave Wood so i think this will be the way I go before anything else. I'm going to see what happens when the new wheel goes in and hopefully that will cure it.

I asked re the upgrade to see what others have done really, Max handled perfectly up to midway through last year and since then almost everything has been tweaked, changed, improved etc but still the prob persists and is made infinately worse by the state of the front wheel, granted. My head bearings have been replaced, fork oil changed, steering damper added etc etc. The suspension set up, sag etc etc has been tweaked and played with by Tw (cos thats what he's into) the problem still exists so basically it's got to be the wheel thats causing the problems.

I can see from whats being said though that conversion may not really be an answer and not neccessary from the sounds of it and I guess if i think back to last year, no matter how hard Max was thrashed he never ever felt unstable at all so that does point ever more to the forks, non adjustable as they are, are more than adequate for the little 600.

Course the underlying reaosn for the upgrade may be the fact that i'd really like some gold coloured forks

Originally posted by NattyBoy


Oh..and can you wait till after the track day until your uprate your suspenders (ooer misss!!)...dont want you kicking my arse do I ?

:lol:

Cheers!
Nat

Nope - Put some padding down yer pants mate

Proto, you want to try pulling the lever harder!

Chris, you want to try my 2003 Fireblade if you want to find out what good brakes are like. The Monsters are fine but just not as powerful. Not trying to slag the Monster. Honest.

[NattyBoy]

But Tim..the fireplace needs good brakes,... coz after you doze off riding one, you need to stop pretty quickly..." :lol: :lol:

Only jerking mate (an ex fartblood owner meself!!)

Nat

PS What's with the mania for Dave Woods. Nice bloke and fantastic racer, obviously knows his stuff but not a suspension expert as such. I'd go to to KAIS or Maxton myself or maybe K-tech. They rebuild suspension all day long, that's pretty wel all they do. No disrespect ,but Dave Woods is a knowledgeable racer. How many sets of forks does he rebuild/re-valve every day?

Chris, you surprise me with your comment about spring types. All the supension tuners (see above) that I've talked to take out the progressive springs and fit linear springs in their place. Most bikes come with progressive springs as standard. Sort of a cheap compromise to assist with poorly valved forks. Or so I'm told. I've had a few sets of forks rebuilt and linear springs every time. If I were you I'd get a second opinion.

Hmmm typical. Nige has gone out to play on MAX and I havent seen him for the last hour He's supposed to be tinkering with my suspension and he's gone out to play.

Jeez men...give em yer toys and this is what happens

[crust]

my 2p

Lin, you've seen the confidence I have in my front end and the handling in general.

I did a fair bit of research before my upgrades and it boiled down to this:

916 Forks
+ adjustable, shiny with twiddly bits
- needed shims for lower yolk, machining top yolk, need rebuild to suit my weight and bikes weight, how often would I need to twiddle? Also needed new brake calipers.

Later model adjustable showas
+ adjustable, twiddly bits
- standard issue quality springs and guts, need setting up, needed new brake calipers

Get my own forks rebuilt with racetech gold valve kit,springs and oil
+ set up for me, top quality kit
- no twiddly bits

All the options involved getting the suspension set up for me and believe me that does make a big difference, so I figured why buy another set of forks, only to pay more money to have them set up, there was nothing mechanicaly wrong with the ones I had.

So I went for getting PDQ in Taplow fitting the racetech kit. The difference seems to be great (I did fit an ohlins rear shock at the same time). They told me the fork kit would give me near ohlins quality suspension and having tried the result I'd agree with them.

If your forks are straight, not chipped, why change them? Get them uprated and set up for you, I'd recommend PDQ.

Crust

Tim, progressive springs are a compromise, but for most people riding the bike on the road, especially without adjustable pre-load, are a good thing. Softer over the smaller bumps, firmer when you brake hard etc.

Each to there own. Dave at least offered to try to do something with my non-adjustable forks (which worked well IMO) which is more than PDQ, Ktech, Maxton, etc could do who just offer to sell you re-valve kits, which they don't do for those forks!

KTech have taken over £350 off me to do the KTM's suspension, and I have to say I don't think it is perfect. They know there stuff, but don't have as much of a personal touch.

I got the non-adjustable forks on my early 900 revalved by Race Components and have been delighted with the results. Combined with a Fox race rear shock the ride is miles better, still firm but without the harsh, jarring motion of the standard setup. On the other hand I am still considering replacing the forks with later adjustable items as the budget Showas are not easily stripped to have them rechromed - Iam told the alloy bottoms on mine are pressed and swaged while the others are bolted.