New Monster

slob · 27-11-2020, 05:07 PM

I've just done a pre-launch Monster video conference with the factory.
Once again the presentation was led by Ducati Product Manager: Stefano Tarabusi.

He acknowledged that it's always a difficult decision to modify a key product that's been around for very nearly three decades, we've just passed the 28th anniversary of the original M900 unveiling at IFMA Köln 1992 and the Monster is fast approaching number 325,000 on the production line. So the Monsteristi community is still growing and indeed, like any community, must grow. They are not trying to build some sort of retro special here, they are moving to Monster concept forward.

They went back to the question: What is a Monster?
The answer is Essential (stripped back), Light, Compact & Sporty. Hence a Superbike derived chassis with a road-focused engine. At the start of the '90s that meant an 851/888 derived chassis with a 900SS motor, today it means Pani'V4 derived chassis with Testastretta motor.

Ducati always choose the best solution for the concept and they felt that the 821/1200 was starting to get too large and heavy for what defines a Monster.

The 821 front frame weighs in at 7.9kg, still lighter than an un-named 'main competitor' at 8.9kg. They played with a 'small tube' trellis which improved weight down to 5.5kg but they assured us this was not aesthetically pleasing. The end result is a gravity cast aluminium frame weighing in at 3.0kg!
Similarly the 821 rear subframe weighs in at 5.1kg, losing out slightly to 'main competitor' at 4.4kg. The optimised cast subframe (think 696/796/1100) comes in at 3.5-4.2kg. a 'small tube' version was still 4.3kg. So the Mk4 Monster will use a GFRP (Glass Fibre Reinforced Polymer) subframe which weighs 3.2kg.
The overall weight of the bike will be reduced by 20kg!
Besides weight loss and compactness, the other advantage of the new frame is the decoupling of directional stiffness, which their test riders report makes for a significantly better ride. Ask a V4 Panigale owner if they still long for a trellis frame...
The new model will also have a little more ground clearance, which will please more 'spirited' riders.

We asked about the spy shots, comparisons to various Yamahas and Galluzzi's original design and Stefano said 'Remember all the photoshop mock-ups so far are not from Ducati and are based on low quality spy-shots of disguised bikes. Remember the original Panigale spy-shots from a decade ago?' He thinks the production bike came out OK.
What we get next week will in some way pay homage to the Galluzzi orignal, and that we won't be disappointed.

We can expect some display bikes to start doing the rounds early next year, with test rides available from dealers around April/May.

In the meantime stay tuned for next Wednesday evening, December 2nd. – 7pm CET (that's 6:00pm GMT)

Mr Gazza · 27-11-2020, 05:12 PM

Please sir! Would you mind explaining what " decoupling of directional stiffness" means and why it's a good thing?

Sounds to me like it means it's less stiff?.. Otherwise all good, bring it on..

slob · 27-11-2020, 05:19 PM

Edge grip provided by lateral chassis flex, when the bike is cranked over and the suspension is barely working. Whilst still allowing enough front to back stiffness to allow positive steering, heavy braking and acceleration.

Wasta · 27-11-2020, 05:26 PM

Thanks,looking forward to Wednesday now.

Mr Gazza · 27-11-2020, 05:30 PM

Thanks I think that makes it clearer.

"Chassis flex" and "suspension barely working", sound like phrases borrowed from Norton?
My Commando has Vernier adjustment for chassis directional stiffness!!..

Luddite · 27-11-2020, 06:01 PM

Thanks for that, Rob, very interesting. That's quite a weight saving for the main and sub-frames. I think KTM (a "main competitor"?

) first used the GFRP sub-frame and I wondered how long it would be before other manufacturers followed suit (must be a huge saving in cost and manufacturing time).

Looking forward to the unveiling... ("non vedo l'ora!").

Dirty · 27-11-2020, 07:21 PM

Looking forward to seeing it

Doggy · 27-11-2020, 08:50 PM

Lighter weight and sportier sounds good. Just wonder how many thousands it's going to be out of my price range.
Mind you, people don't buy new bikes anymore do they?. They rent them each month and then give them back!

slob · 27-11-2020, 09:12 PM

I also asked about Desmo vs Granturismo (springs)
Stefano said we can expect the Monster to be a Desmo for the foreseeable future and that he thought a V4 Monster unlikely since the current Streetfighter fills that space in the current range.

I completely forgot maybe the most obvious question: what engine options we might see, I guess we’ll find out next week.

Darkness · 27-11-2020, 09:12 PM

Thanks Rob. That was a more coherent statement than I’d expected! I’m looking forward to seeing the “Pudding” now.

slob · 27-11-2020, 09:24 PM

remember, the ‘93 900 didn’t look exactly like Galluzzi’s design sketch by the time we got our hands on it

Darkness · 27-11-2020, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

remember, the ‘93 900 didn’t look exactly like Galluzzi’s design sketch by the time we got our hands on it

I don’t know, they’ve both got a saddle, tank, engine, two wheels and handlebars, and not too much else that isn’t needed to allow registration!

Albie · 27-11-2020, 11:08 PM

Need to be open minded. Evolution is always good it's what we learn from our past to improve our future. Not always successful but that's part of the learning.

stopintime · 27-11-2020, 11:21 PM

Oh, Ducati, Ducati, Ducati.....

My problem... or rather Ducati's problem, as I see it

, is that they expect us to believe in their ability to actually manufacture what they talk about. This company can't make a GP bike or WSBK turn well - despite enough experience and money. Their construction skills and tech solutions are no longer leading them/us anywhere. At least not anywhere exciting.

For the new Monster they chose between two/three sub frame designs: a cast '696' at ~4kg and a 'glass fibre reinforced polymer' at ~3kg. Their decision to save ONE kg: the frame that will scare people because it's plastic. PLASTIC! They could have made a cool impressive fat tube 'S2R' trellis, weighing in at 4-5kg. Ducati chose PLASTIC!

Oooh la la......

Blah blah · 28-11-2020, 07:53 AM

I'm not the target market for this as I won't be swapping mine but I think a lot will be down to how it looks. If it ends up looking like a another clone that gets lost in the sea of 'monsters' * from other manufacturers then why would anyone buy it other than for the name? I'll see what the teenager thinks when pictures are released.

Better handling and stiffer frames? Always welcome but test riders used to V4s and track testing doesn't necessarily mean it'll be any better for normal people in the real world on our roads at 7/10ths.

And despite all that which seems a bit negative, I look forward to seeing it, just hope the people making the sub frames aren't the same ones that made my tank..

*didn't know what the collective was for lots of Monsters was or even if there is one but 'Sea of Monsters' seems to fit !

27-11-2020, 05:07 PM	#1
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	New Monster I've just done a pre-launch Monster video conference with the factory. Once again the presentation was led by Ducati Product Manager: Stefano Tarabusi. He acknowledged that it's always a difficult decision to modify a key product that's been around for very nearly three decades, we've just passed the 28th anniversary of the original M900 unveiling at IFMA Köln 1992 and the Monster is fast approaching number 325,000 on the production line. So the Monsteristi community is still growing and indeed, like any community, must grow. They are not trying to build some sort of retro special here, they are moving to Monster concept forward. They went back to the question: What is a Monster? The answer is Essential (stripped back), Light, Compact & Sporty. Hence a Superbike derived chassis with a road-focused engine. At the start of the '90s that meant an 851/888 derived chassis with a 900SS motor, today it means Pani'V4 derived chassis with Testastretta motor. Ducati always choose the best solution for the concept and they felt that the 821/1200 was starting to get too large and heavy for what defines a Monster. The 821 front frame weighs in at 7.9kg, still lighter than an un-named 'main competitor' at 8.9kg. They played with a 'small tube' trellis which improved weight down to 5.5kg but they assured us this was not aesthetically pleasing. The end result is a gravity cast aluminium frame weighing in at 3.0kg! Similarly the 821 rear subframe weighs in at 5.1kg, losing out slightly to 'main competitor' at 4.4kg. The optimised cast subframe (think 696/796/1100) comes in at 3.5-4.2kg. a 'small tube' version was still 4.3kg. So the Mk4 Monster will use a GFRP (Glass Fibre Reinforced Polymer) subframe which weighs 3.2kg. The overall weight of the bike will be reduced by 20kg! Besides weight loss and compactness, the other advantage of the new frame is the decoupling of directional stiffness, which their test riders report makes for a significantly better ride. Ask a V4 Panigale owner if they still long for a trellis frame... The new model will also have a little more ground clearance, which will please more 'spirited' riders. We asked about the spy shots, comparisons to various Yamahas and Galluzzi's original design and Stefano said 'Remember all the photoshop mock-ups so far are not from Ducati and are based on low quality spy-shots of disguised bikes. Remember the original Panigale spy-shots from a decade ago?' He thinks the production bike came out OK. What we get next week will in some way pay homage to the Galluzzi orignal, and that we won't be disappointed. We can expect some display bikes to start doing the rounds early next year, with test rides available from dealers around April/May. In the meantime stay tuned for next Wednesday evening, December 2nd. – 7pm CET (that's 6:00pm GMT) Last edited by slob; 27-11-2020 at 05:43 PM..

27-11-2020, 05:12 PM	#2
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,805	Please sir! Would you mind explaining what " decoupling of directional stiffness" means and why it's a good thing? Sounds to me like it means it's less stiff?.. Otherwise all good, bring it on.. __________________

27-11-2020, 05:26 PM	#4
Wasta Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Durham Bike: M900 Posts: 386	Thanks,looking forward to Wednesday now. __________________ 2018 Aprilia Tuono V4 1100RR 1998 M900 monster

27-11-2020, 05:30 PM	#5
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,805	Thanks I think that makes it clearer. "Chassis flex" and "suspension barely working", sound like phrases borrowed from Norton? My Commando has Vernier adjustment for chassis directional stiffness!!.. __________________

27-11-2020, 06:01 PM	#6
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	Thanks for that, Rob, very interesting. That's quite a weight saving for the main and sub-frames. I think KTM (a "main competitor"?) first used the GFRP sub-frame and I wondered how long it would be before other manufacturers followed suit (must be a huge saving in cost and manufacturing time). Looking forward to the unveiling... ("non vedo l'ora!").

27-11-2020, 05:19 PM	#3
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	Edge grip provided by lateral chassis flex, when the bike is cranked over and the suspension is barely working. Whilst still allowing enough front to back stiffness to allow positive steering, heavy braking and acceleration.

27-11-2020, 07:21 PM	#7
Dirty Bockloks Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London Bike: No Bike Yet! Posts: 4,601	Looking forward to seeing it __________________ Wounds heal, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever Beware of eBay

27-11-2020, 08:50 PM	#8
Doggy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Kent Bike: M796 Posts: 510	Lighter weight and sportier sounds good. Just wonder how many thousands it's going to be out of my price range. Mind you, people don't buy new bikes anymore do they?. They rent them each month and then give them back!

27-11-2020, 09:12 PM	#9
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	...almost forgot I also asked about Desmo vs Granturismo (springs) Stefano said we can expect the Monster to be a Desmo for the foreseeable future and that he thought a V4 Monster unlikely since the current Streetfighter fills that space in the current range. I completely forgot maybe the most obvious question: what engine options we might see, I guess we’ll find out next week.

27-11-2020, 09:12 PM	#10
Darkness . Join Date: May 2007 Location: Stockbridge Bike: M900 Posts: 1,984	Thanks Rob. That was a more coherent statement than I’d expected! I’m looking forward to seeing the “Pudding” now. __________________ Original and Best since 1993

27-11-2020, 09:24 PM	#11
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	remember, the ‘93 900 didn’t look exactly like Galluzzi’s design sketch by the time we got our hands on it

27-11-2020, 11:08 PM	#13
Albie Fanactical volunteer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent Bike: M900 Posts: 9,030	Need to be open minded. Evolution is always good it's what we learn from our past to improve our future. Not always successful but that's part of the learning. __________________ http://albies93m900.blogspot.co.uk/

27-11-2020, 11:21 PM	#14
stopintime Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Oslo Bike: S2r Posts: 426	Oh, Ducati, Ducati, Ducati..... My problem... or rather Ducati's problem, as I see it , is that they expect us to believe in their ability to actually manufacture what they talk about. This company can't make a GP bike or WSBK turn well - despite enough experience and money. Their construction skills and tech solutions are no longer leading them/us anywhere. At least not anywhere exciting. For the new Monster they chose between two/three sub frame designs: a cast '696' at ~4kg and a 'glass fibre reinforced polymer' at ~3kg. Their decision to save ONE kg: the frame that will scare people because it's plastic. PLASTIC! They could have made a cool impressive fat tube 'S2R' trellis, weighing in at 4-5kg. Ducati chose PLASTIC! Oooh la la......

28-11-2020, 07:53 AM	#15
Blah blah Upsetting normal people.. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Portreath Bike: S2r Posts: 833	I'm not the target market for this as I won't be swapping mine but I think a lot will be down to how it looks. If it ends up looking like a another clone that gets lost in the sea of 'monsters' * from other manufacturers then why would anyone buy it other than for the name? I'll see what the teenager thinks when pictures are released. Better handling and stiffer frames? Always welcome but test riders used to V4s and track testing doesn't necessarily mean it'll be any better for normal people in the real world on our roads at 7/10ths. And despite all that which seems a bit negative, I look forward to seeing it, just hope the people making the sub frames aren't the same ones that made my tank.. *didn't know what the collective was for lots of Monsters was or even if there is one but 'Sea of Monsters' seems to fit ! __________________ Power is nothing without control... I have neither !