Ride Scotland? Then be very afraid.

crawsue · 09-05-2017, 08:36 PM

Doing one of our best Twisties last Sunday, Dalmally to Inverary, was pressing on a bit but the 696 is not exactly ballistic...is it?
Pulling in to Inverary I realised I had a single plod on my tail, seems like he had been there for a while , but was on his own. Got a proper dressing down but I realised that he couldn't book me.....then he pulls his flanker.....a motoring ASBO.....sh*te.
Seems it lasts a year and one more pull and the bike gets lifted.....talk about summary justice, no court case, no appeal......summer basically ruined.
This seems to be how Police Scotland will get round the two witness problem for road traffic offences.

SunEye · 10-05-2017, 04:57 AM

According to an old article in The Scotsman about motoring ASBOs

"The measure was introduced by the parliament in 2005 and, while police must have reasonable grounds that either careless and inconsiderate driving and/or illegal off-road driving has occurred, they must also have reasonable grounds for believing the vehicle is or has been used in a manner causing, or likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public - ie there has to be an anti-social element to the circumstances."

From your description of events it sound like the above did not apply. However I don't know how (or even if) you can challenge the ASBO that has been given to you.

alan s4 · 10-05-2017, 06:36 AM

Describe "pressing on" - if it's consistently more than 70mph in a 60 zone then it's a fair cop.

utopia · 10-05-2017, 12:37 PM

Of course the Devil is in the detail .. ie exactly how fast were you going and in exactly what manner were you riding.
But I share your annoyance at the idea of summary justice being handed out by a single person, with no chance to challenge it.
And the thought of the bike being taken away after one more similar event seems draconian.

If I'm honest, I probably break a speed limit every single time I go out on the bike, and have probably done so all my life.
And ok, its only my personal opinion but despite this, I reckon I my riding style is careful and considerate to other road users ... that's how I've got to 60yrs without injury.
I guess its all about interpretation but it does concern me when that call falls to a single copper in isolation, who can then apply such hard hitting consequences on the spot.

I remember going to Donington just after it had reopened.
There were long queues of cars on the then narrow approach roads, so I was filtering, very slowly past them, in first gear.
A copper stopped me, but refused to explain why.
He made me wait for a while then let me continue.
I reckon the only reason for that was that the Laverda SFC that I was riding at the time looked fast even at a standstill.
I'm glad that guy didn't have an ASBO in his pocket.

On the other hand, I do see riders out there who need one.

Dirty · 10-05-2017, 03:11 PM

Disgusting. Just another example of the slow erosion of liberties, yet people still scream blue murder when they think there are too many 'human rights'!

I wonder how confiscation works with leased bikes?

alan s4 · 10-05-2017, 04:01 PM

On a similar note, it's 6 points for merely touching your sat nav screen now, I'd take an ASBO any day of the week

AndyC_772 · 11-05-2017, 06:49 AM

You sure that doesn't just apply to hand-held devices?

How is a proper bike mounted sat nav any different to any of the other controls on the bike?

[edit]: The RAC has a guide here. Seems the rules do specifically apply to hand-held phones.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/k...le-phone-laws/

slob · 11-05-2017, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC_772

How is a proper bike mounted sat nav any different to any of the other controls on the bike?

because of the level of attention it requires, how is using a satnav or finding a tune on your built in car hi-fi any better than using a phone in a holder?

Dukedesmo · 11-05-2017, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

how is using a satnav or finding a tune on your built in car hi-fi any better than using a phone in a holder?

It's not but then when did common sense or logic enter into motoring lawmaking...?

slob · 11-05-2017, 09:05 AM

Sadly true.

I'm still awaiting prosecution for a non confirming plate a couple of weeks back, which if the £60 stated by the officer amounts to about £20 per mm on the size of the letters, he was trying to tell me what a nice guy he was because he wasn't putting points on my license for my cans. The thing I object to is he stopped me 'as part of a road safety initiative' but just wanted to hit his daily quota, didn't even walk round the bike or check the lights worked. When he said 'safety initiative' I was expecting the bacon sarnie/bikesafe course offer my local force employ. Call it additional local motorcycling tax if that's what it is. I was stopping anyway to see if I could help the bike I was approaching, thinking it had broken down only to find it was being stopped by the guy who'd hidden his car in the bushes.

Not worth appealing if I don't want to get tugged every time plod spots my reg.

The inability to appeal an S59 ASBO is clearly wrong, as is issuing it for a first offence, and equally prone to retribution. As ever a power intended for use against gangs of youths on uninsured mopeds and stolen dirt bikes is being abused once in the hands of the executive.

Not exactly going to win hearts and minds of mostly sensible bikers who open it up occasionally when safe to do so.

Dukedesmo · 11-05-2017, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

As ever a power intended for use against gangs of youths on uninsured mopeds and stolen dirt bikes is being abused once in the hands of the executive.

Whilst the gangs of youths on uninsured mopeds/stolen bikes go about their daily criminality totally unhindered by the law...

Nasher · 11-05-2017, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dukedesmo

Whilst the gangs of youths on uninsured mopeds/stolen bikes go about their daily criminality totally unhindered by the law...

That's because 'we' are an easier target who can be dealt with quickly at the side of the road to generate some revenue, and are likely to be polite, compliant, and just consider the offence as an occupational hazard.

They don't want to be tied up for hours back at the station doing paperwork and dealing with 'customers' who are going to be hard to deal with, probably violent, and will make them miss their lunch.

Nasher.

Dirty · 11-05-2017, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

Sadly true.

I'm still awaiting prosecution for a non confirming plate a couple of weeks back, which if the £60 stated by the officer amounts to about £20 per mm on the size of the letters, he was trying to tell me what a nice guy he was because he wasn't putting points on my license for my cans.

Where was this?

manwithredbike · 23-05-2017, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

Sadly true.

I'm still awaiting prosecution for a non confirming plate a couple of weeks back, which if the £60 stated by the officer amounts to about £20 per mm on the size of the letters, he was trying to tell me what a nice guy he was because he wasn't putting points on my license for my cans. The thing I object to is he stopped me 'as part of a road safety initiative' but just wanted to hit his daily quota, didn't even walk round the bike or check the lights worked. When he said 'safety initiative' I was expecting the bacon sarnie/bikesafe course offer my local force employ. Call it additional local motorcycling tax if that's what it is. I was stopping anyway to see if I could help the bike I was approaching, thinking it had broken down only to find it was being stopped by the guy who'd hidden his car in the bushes.

Not worth appealing if I don't want to get tugged every time plod spots my reg.

The inability to appeal an S59 ASBO is clearly wrong, as is issuing it for a first offence, and equally prone to retribution. As ever a power intended for use against gangs of youths on uninsured mopeds and stolen dirt bikes is being abused once in the hands of the executive.

Not exactly going to win hearts and minds of mostly sensible bikers who open it up occasionally when safe to do so.

wasn't aware that that was a points offence Rob. doesn't appear on this list though may be different now.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/assets/.../OD_000055.pdf

I'm currently running with 6 points so take a wee interest in this sort of stuff!

slob · 11-05-2017, 11:43 AM

oop narth

got a verbal nip and traffic offence report carbon copy but no letter yet, assume they send them out so slow they can double the fine

*%#!$ will probably offer me a speed awareness course

09-05-2017, 08:36 PM	#1
crawsue Bronze Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Glasgow Bike: M1100evo Posts: 258	Ride Scotland? Then be very afraid. Doing one of our best Twisties last Sunday, Dalmally to Inverary, was pressing on a bit but the 696 is not exactly ballistic...is it? Pulling in to Inverary I realised I had a single plod on my tail, seems like he had been there for a while , but was on his own. Got a proper dressing down but I realised that he couldn't book me.....then he pulls his flanker.....a motoring ASBO.....sh*te. Seems it lasts a year and one more pull and the bike gets lifted.....talk about summary justice, no court case, no appeal......summer basically ruined. This seems to be how Police Scotland will get round the two witness problem for road traffic offences.

10-05-2017, 03:11 PM	#5
Dirty Bockloks Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London Bike: No Bike Yet! Posts: 4,601	Disgusting. Just another example of the slow erosion of liberties, yet people still scream blue murder when they think there are too many 'human rights'! I wonder how confiscation works with leased bikes? __________________ Wounds heal, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever Beware of eBay

11-05-2017, 06:49 AM	#7
AndyC_772 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Farnborough Bike: No Bike Yet! Posts: 211	You sure that doesn't just apply to hand-held devices? How is a proper bike mounted sat nav any different to any of the other controls on the bike? [edit]: The RAC has a guide here. Seems the rules do specifically apply to hand-held phones. https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/k...le-phone-laws/ Last edited by AndyC_772; 11-05-2017 at 06:58 AM..

11-05-2017, 09:05 AM	#10
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,713	Sadly true. I'm still awaiting prosecution for a non confirming plate a couple of weeks back, which if the £60 stated by the officer amounts to about £20 per mm on the size of the letters, he was trying to tell me what a nice guy he was because he wasn't putting points on my license for my cans. The thing I object to is he stopped me 'as part of a road safety initiative' but just wanted to hit his daily quota, didn't even walk round the bike or check the lights worked. When he said 'safety initiative' I was expecting the bacon sarnie/bikesafe course offer my local force employ. Call it additional local motorcycling tax if that's what it is. I was stopping anyway to see if I could help the bike I was approaching, thinking it had broken down only to find it was being stopped by the guy who'd hidden his car in the bushes. Not worth appealing if I don't want to get tugged every time plod spots my reg. The inability to appeal an S59 ASBO is clearly wrong, as is issuing it for a first offence, and equally prone to retribution. As ever a power intended for use against gangs of youths on uninsured mopeds and stolen dirt bikes is being abused once in the hands of the executive. Not exactly going to win hearts and minds of mostly sensible bikers who open it up occasionally when safe to do so. Last edited by slob; 11-05-2017 at 09:17 AM..

10-05-2017, 04:57 AM	#2
SunEye Registered User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Bognor Regis Bike: Other Ducati Posts: 589	According to an old article in The Scotsman about motoring ASBOs "The measure was introduced by the parliament in 2005 and, while police must have reasonable grounds that either careless and inconsiderate driving and/or illegal off-road driving has occurred, they must also have reasonable grounds for believing the vehicle is or has been used in a manner causing, or likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public - ie there has to be an anti-social element to the circumstances." From your description of events it sound like the above did not apply. However I don't know how (or even if) you can challenge the ASBO that has been given to you.

10-05-2017, 06:36 AM	#3
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	Describe "pressing on" - if it's consistently more than 70mph in a 60 zone then it's a fair cop.

10-05-2017, 12:37 PM	#4
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	Of course the Devil is in the detail .. ie exactly how fast were you going and in exactly what manner were you riding. But I share your annoyance at the idea of summary justice being handed out by a single person, with no chance to challenge it. And the thought of the bike being taken away after one more similar event seems draconian. If I'm honest, I probably break a speed limit every single time I go out on the bike, and have probably done so all my life. And ok, its only my personal opinion but despite this, I reckon I my riding style is careful and considerate to other road users ... that's how I've got to 60yrs without injury. I guess its all about interpretation but it does concern me when that call falls to a single copper in isolation, who can then apply such hard hitting consequences on the spot. I remember going to Donington just after it had reopened. There were long queues of cars on the then narrow approach roads, so I was filtering, very slowly past them, in first gear. A copper stopped me, but refused to explain why. He made me wait for a while then let me continue. I reckon the only reason for that was that the Laverda SFC that I was riding at the time looked fast even at a standstill. I'm glad that guy didn't have an ASBO in his pocket. On the other hand, I do see riders out there who need one.

10-05-2017, 04:01 PM	#6
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	On a similar note, it's 6 points for merely touching your sat nav screen now, I'd take an ASBO any day of the week

11-05-2017, 11:43 AM	#15
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,713	oop narth got a verbal nip and traffic offence report carbon copy but no letter yet, assume they send them out so slow they can double the fine *%#!$ will probably offer me a speed awareness course