S4rs Starting Issues

Back again.... God I love this bike but she is fickle....


ok starting issues.. My bike is a terrible starter. Hit the ignition button (press and release) and the starter starts cranking the engine but just not getting ignition. the engine turns for 5 or 6 times then stops cranking. press the ignition button again and same happens. Usually takes 3 or 4 attempts to get her started. Sometimes the bike pinks during startup usually after giving a bit of throttle. This is from cold and normally starts no problem when warm but not today.

What I have done so far. Replaced the spark plugs with iridium plugs, ran a fuel system cleaner BG85 and as much as possible used super unleaded preferably Shell nitro.

Bike has an quad d exbox system and power commander.

I'm thinking fuel filter may need replaced but any further suggestions greatly appreciated.

cherrs guys
Jim

[Flip]

Is it cranking at a good speed or on the slow wheezy side when it turns over?

If the latter then it may well be down to poor ground connections assuming the battery is in good condition.

Also, not that it should make a difference to it starting but I am pretty sure Shell Nitro (and their V-Power) contains ethanol which does all kind of horrible things to your fuel system (and plastic fuel tank if you have one).

There's an odd tolerance allowed in the actual stated percentage of ethanol allowed in fuel at the pumps in the U.K. (in most of Europe E10 (10%) is common place) but the only one I know for sure here that doesn't have any is BP's super unleaded which is what most of the classic racers use (particularly those running two strokes as the ethanol also effects mixture).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...and-bikes.html

[rollo22]

Try getting the TPS reset.
Was it fine before the power commander and Quad box.
May be a long shot but check all the earth connections are electrically sound

[Luddite]

Hi Jim

I note you've changed your plugs to the iridium type and that's what I'm running on my 1100 Evo.

I don't know if you're aware that, because of the narrower centre electrode, you need to use a larger gap than the standard (on the 1100 Evo) of 0.7 - 0.8 mm.

For a good fat spark, 0.9 - 1.0 mm is recommended (I'm using 0.95 mm).

If you haven't already done so, try a larger gap and see if that improves your starting.

These iridium plugs aren't as robust as standard copper-cored ones though so, if you do adjust them, use a proper adjusting tool on the outer electrode only. If you try to prise the electrodes apart, the centre one could break.

[damien666]

I had to change the tps on mine. It was impossible to start. I can reccomend the ' exact fit 'brand for new tps. The old one is held in by a metal ring clip with gripping teeth. It can't be removed and refitted as the gripping ring gets destroyed. Then a tps calibration needs to be done with approprite software/tool.

[alan s4]

Had same issues with mine - I replaced the following:

1. New Motobatt battery
2. Replace starter cable (from solenoid to starter) and earth (from battery to engine). I wouldn't bother with the "exact fit" kit - go to Halfords and buy upgraded cables (beside the battery section) - various sizes and colours available.
3. If you haven't changed your reg/rect then now would be the time - you need a MOFSET type. I bought mine from Electrex and it was a simple swap without faffing about with different cable solutions.

The battery needs to be in tip top condition and fully charged - I leave mine on a solar charger.

My bike now starts on the button, regardless of temp/length of time standing. No more "will she won't she" when you start up in front of a crowd

Originally Posted by Flip

.......the only one I know for sure here that doesn't have any is BP's super unleaded which is what most of the classic racers use (particularly those running two strokes as the ethanol also effects mixture).

How recent is that info and have you contacted BP?

Here is some info from HERE that was posted Feb 2015:

Latest information as at 6/2/2015 re ethanol in unleaded grades available at the pumps today
from these 4 following companies contacted.

BP - 5% is contained in our regular unleaded petrol (similar to the majority on sale today)
Ref BP Ultimate - " This is an evolving situation (in line with government guidelines) and we are unable to give you catagorical assurances of the absence or presence of ethanol throughout the supply chain of our BP Ultimate petrol"

TEXACO (Verado) - BOTH our regular and super grades of unleaded petrol contain 5% ethanol at present.

SHELL UK - BOTH our regular and super grades of unleaded petrol contain 5% ethanol at present.

ESSO - 5% ethanol is added to our regular grade unleaded petrol
( NO ethanol* is added to our 'super' grade at present.
(*government legislation does not at present require us to add ethanol to this higher grade of petrol)

There is a further comment:

Esso confirmed again that Cornwall,Devon,Teeside area and Scotland are the exception and their super grade DOES contain 5% ethanol in these areas of the UK only at present time) other areas remain free of ethanol in their super grade (at present)

Unless your info is more recent then it reads as if BP Ultimate most likely does have ethanol and only Esso did not at the time the post was made but notice the words 'at present'?

[utopia]

That's useful ... ta.
I've been using BP Ultimate for some time now but it looks like it might be time to look for a local Esso garage instead.
And btw, it looks to me like both the info and the thread posting were from 2015, not 2016, so the situation may have moved on somewhat by now.

Originally Posted by utopia

And btw, it looks to me like both the info and the thread posting were from 2015, not 2016, so the situation may have moved on somewhat by now.

Yes sorry - I misread that so now corrected to 2015 but you're right, this info can get out of date and is Esso Super still ethanol free?

[smiffyraf1]

i put iridiums in mine and it actually makes them harder to start due to being harder wearing and taking more energy to spark.
i recently changed the shim in my crank position sensor which seemed to help

[damien666]

Originally Posted by alan s4

Had same issues with mine - I replaced the following:

1. New Motobatt battery
2. Replace starter cable (from solenoid to starter) and earth (from battery to engine). I wouldn't bother with the "exact fit" kit - go to Halfords and buy upgraded cables (beside the battery section) - various sizes and colours available.
3. If you haven't changed your reg/rect then now would be the time - you need a MOFSET type. I bought mine from Electrex and it was a simple swap without faffing about with different cable solutions.

The battery needs to be in tip top condition and fully charged - I leave mine on a solar charger.

My bike now starts on the button, regardless of temp/length of time standing. No more "will she won't she" when you start up in front of a crowd

I've also fitted a mosfet type reg/rectifier. One thing to note on the s4rs is the plastic breather canister under the seat had to be re-shaped due to the way the connectors fit and take up space on new reg/rect unit.

[Luddite]

Originally Posted by smiffyraf1

i put iridiums in mine and it actually makes them harder to start due to being harder wearing and taking more energy to spark.
i recently changed the shim in my crank position sensor which seemed to help

As far as iridium plugs are concerned, here's an explanation of some of their properties from

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/iridium-spark-plugs/

"... The narrow diameter concentrates the electrical charge and therefore a much lower voltage is required to jump the spark gap. This is beneficial in several ways:

• A lower voltage is required, this reduces load on a vehicle's ignition system (less strain = less chance of failure)

• A larger gap can be supported without increasing load on the ignition system (Larger gap = larger spark = more efficient combustion)..."

So, if you haven't already done so, I'd recommended trying the larger gap and seeing if that makes a difference. It's a 5 minute job and costs nothing. Bear in mind what I said above about using the right tool.

Thanks guys. some interesting suggestions here. I never considered tps settings so may go down that road in the winter. For now I think I'll settle with a new battery, earth's and widen the gaps on the plugs.

Also the fuel issues, as I do have a plastic tank this makes me very nervous!

I posted a video on youtube of her starting this morning. Today she has been behaving much better. makes it all the more frustrating.....Anyway link below if anyone has the time to listen for a couple of mins. Left it running to hear the engine throbbing until it got to temp

https://youtu.be/8BS60Vi9WyY

Also batteries. what is recommended?

cheers

[alan s4]

Watched the vid - sounds like a weak battery to me. How many volts are showing? Motobatt tends to be the preferred option on here. If your not hooking up to a charger then that could be the issue. Esp if you leave for a couple of weeks at a time.

If you are regularly riding then I would point the finger at the reg/rect. After a run the battery should be showing 13.5V or thereabouts (engine off), if you rev the engine to 3-4000 rpm you should see around 14V

Also, what's the score with the starter button? You press and then let go and it continues to turn??!! Is that an RS thing, as my monster (and any other bike that I've owned) doesn't do that.

That was after the battery was on charge overnight using an optimal and showing green lights.

OK amateurish question but where/ how do you check the voltage??

As for the push and let go. it's always done that, so assumed that's normal. Anybody know any different?