Fast idle / cold start mech

02-12-2015, 07:05 PM

I am looking to fit a cold start to my S2R 1000,at the moment it just relies on the icv holding enough "throttle " to keep it running after starting . Works fine if it isn't too cold ,trouble is it is too cold now.
Any one got the bit that picks up of the two threaded holes under the throttle quadrant / I don't need the cable or the lever,just the mechanism that opens the throttle a tad.

02-12-2015, 07:44 PM

Think 916 / 996 etc ones fit which should increase your chances of getting what you need.

03-12-2015, 06:06 AM

No Idea what these parts are but I'd be interested as my M1000 won't start now unless it has two batteries on it.

I'm in the process of getting the starter rebuilt and fitting better leads but every little helps....

03-12-2015, 06:34 AM

I'm assuming he means the small button on the throttle that holds it slightly open ala 916 etc

Darren69 · 03-12-2015, 07:35 AM

Yes, its a button that locks on 748/916 and I think the mechanism for it is in the throttle itself pushing the button moves the throttle a small amount and when you turn the throttle the button pops back out.

Its a lever like a choke on the S4 and you can control to a certain degree how much you want to open the throttles which can sometimes be a bit hit and miss. The lever is part of the switch gear housing so maybe its different switchgear you have?

Easiest would maybe to try and fit a 916 style throttle assembly.

Dukedesmo · 03-12-2015, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren69

Easiest would maybe to try and fit a 916 style throttle assembly.

I have a 916 throttle on my Monster, for this very reason however; it is single cable only so you need to remove the closer cable (if your bike has one?) and it has a much quicker action meaning a very quick throttle and, if you fit FCRs a very heavy throttle.

I improved things by fitting a 'throttle tamer' throttle tube that slows the action down (and lightens it a tad), meaning that although still quick it is not quite so silly...

03-12-2015, 12:22 PM

Well not what I was looking for initially,but it might be an idea.
The bit I am looking for is held on the right hand side of the throttle bodies ,on an earlier injected monster ,there are twocables to the throttle body,one is the throttle cable the other the fast idle.It operates a mech that in effect moves the throttle stop a tad .Thats what I want to do to save me having to hold the throttle open a tad for the first few minutes after a cold start.

utopia · 03-12-2015, 12:28 PM

I've just bought a 996 throttle (single cable) for the sake of its fast idle button.
When it arrives I could have a look at the part you require and see if its possible to copy it.

edit .... ah, it seems from your last post that we are talking about two different systems.

03-12-2015, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utopia

I've just bought a 996 throttle (single cable) for the sake of its fast idle button.
When it arrives I could have a look at the part you require and see if its possible to copy it.

edit .... ah, it seems from your last post that we are talking about two different systems.

I am likeing the 916 throttle idea ,is the cost reasonable ? Where did you find it ,what does it look like. Let me know when you have it.

utopia · 03-12-2015, 03:34 PM

I paid £32 delivered, off ebay.
Took a bit of a flyer though as the pics didn't show the fast Idle button very clearly .. I think its the right one though.
For that, I got the full works, ie twistgrip, housing and cable.
Seemed a decent price compared to others so I nabbed it, but ...
I nearly waited and had a bid on this ...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUCATI-916...wAAOSwcBhWWzLm

Definitely can't see the fast idle button on this one though, so might be worth asking before bidding.

Note, as Tim says, its a single cable throttle ... which is probably what you're after, but just saying in case.
Also it may have a faster action, though then again maybe not compared to your original .. my original is slower (and therefore lighter too) though.

Mine should be here in a day or two, in case you want to compare notes again before bidding ....?

ps. I haven't forgotten that I owe you a fiver for postage by the way.
I've been waiting while trying to find a suitable trinket to include as a thank-you before sending it.

Dukedesmo · 03-12-2015, 04:31 PM

Fitted here, if you look closely you can see the button under the throttle cam part;

I replaced a 'Motion Pro' twistgrip that was supplied with the FCR kit because it was tricky to run the bike whilst cold due to having no cold start or fast idle setting.

The 916 twistgrip has a 'switch' underneath that holds the throttle open just a small amount and you can get some degree of adjustment by altering the amount of slack in the cable, I set it to get around 2000rpm on fast idle which seems to work well enough but as soon as you close the throttle it will disengage.

Tip, if you set it high enough you can use it as a kind of 'cruise-control'.

It is seriously shorter in action than the Motion Pro but I can't directly compare to the OEM Monster throttle because I never had one.

The 916 throttle is only 1/4 turn on a 916 but was about 1/2 that on my Monster! - To counter this I bought the throttle tamer tube and that makes the action about the same as my 916 which in turn is fitted with a quick-action cam on the injector bodies - so both a tad under a 1/4 turn, although the Monster throttle is significantly heavier due to the stronger springs on the FCrs.

Certainly means I can get on the throttle quickly but before 'taming' it was difficult to hold a steady throttle at lower speeds, meaning the delivery could feel even less refined!

All that fades into insignificance when I ride the old LeMans which has a massively heavy throttle whilst at the same time requiring a second 'bite' to get full throttle due to having such a long throttle action - I'd like to get a quick throttle for it but I'd probably need both hands to twist it...

Darren69 · 03-12-2015, 06:45 PM

And some pics of my 748:-

utopia · 03-12-2015, 10:43 PM

Yep, that looks like the jobbie that I hope I've just bought.

Discussing this with Capo, I learned that there are three different types of cold start devices on injected monsters.
The earliest has a separate cold start lever on the left handlebar.
The next has the throttle with cold start advance button.
And the latest has it all controlled by the ecu.
It would seem that you have the latter type, Drum, and our thoughts were that it would be best to look for a fault therein before bypassing the issue with one of the other systems added in.
Then again, you're probably well aware of that anyway and I guess there's no particular harm in fitting the button and it might "solve" the problem in the short term.
I dunno what sensor/s it uses but I imagine the intended benefit of the ecu controlled system is that it can vary the amount of "cold start" according to maybe ambient conditions and/or engine temp or idle speed.
I'd be inclined to look for a problem with a sensor of that ilk somewhere.
While also bidding on the button throttle if it doesn't go sky high.

Tim, the throttle tamer looks interesting.
I'll see how I get on but I might just end up with one myself.

Also, is that a Corbin seat ?
I don't remember that before.
Looks just like mine, actually.
Personally, I think the pillion scoop on the Corbin (sans cowl) really suits the lines of the monster, better than the std seat either naked or cowled.

Apologies for thread digression.

Darren69 · 04-12-2015, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utopia

Yep, that looks like the jobbie that I hope I've just bought.

Discussing this with Capo, I learned that there are three different types of cold start devices on injected monsters.
The earliest has a separate cold start lever on the left handlebar.
The next has the throttle with cold start advance button.
And the latest has it all controlled by the ecu.
It would seem that you have the latter type, Drum, and our thoughts were that it would be best to look for a fault therein before bypassing the issue with one of the other systems added in.
Then again, you're probably well aware of that anyway and I guess there's no particular harm in fitting the button and it might "solve" the problem in the short term.
I dunno what sensor/s it uses but I imagine the intended benefit of the ecu controlled system is that it can vary the amount of "cold start" according to maybe ambient conditions and/or engine temp or idle speed.
I'd be inclined to look for a problem with a sensor of that ilk somewhere.
While also bidding on the button throttle if it doesn't go sky high.

Tim, the throttle tamer looks interesting.
I'll see how I get on but I might just end up with one myself.

Also, is that a Corbin seat ?
I don't remember that before.
Looks just like mine, actually.
Personally, I think the pillion scoop on the Corbin (sans cowl) really suits the lines of the monster, better than the std seat either naked or cowled.

Apologies for thread digression.

I might be wrong but I think it is a Sargent not a Corbin but similar. Also do you know where I can get exhaust heat shields like yours? I lost one of mine and can't find any suitable with the coarse twill weave to match the cans. Sorry more thread hi-jack

Dukedesmo · 04-12-2015, 09:46 AM

It is a Sargent seat, I bought it on impulse (late-night ebay) even though I wasn't keen on the red piping - but the price was right.

Having tried it and, despite preferring the look of my DP, so called 'comfort' seat, it is much more comfortable and also sits me about 1" higher which helps with the seat to footrest position that was too cramped before. Plus it has more underseat storage.

As for the exhaust heat shields, they came with the exhausts. I do actually have a spare LH side shield that I bought (again late-night ebay) in case of emergency, because knowing that they are probably difficult (and expensive) to get hold of new, if I see something interesting I get it for my spares collection.

With regards to the throttle tamer, it works very well and actually has a slower ramp at low throttle openings, which is a great help but then speeds up at higher openings. I was dubious when I first saw it but it makes a big difference in user-friendliness because the throttle was ridiculously short action and heavy before.

However I don't know if the standard Monster carb setup action is similar to the FCRs so can't say if you would have the same problem with the Mikunis...

02-12-2015, 07:05 PM	#1
Drumnagorrach Guest Posts: n/a	Fast idle / cold start mech I am looking to fit a cold start to my S2R 1000,at the moment it just relies on the icv holding enough "throttle " to keep it running after starting . Works fine if it isn't too cold ,trouble is it is too cold now. Any one got the bit that picks up of the two threaded holes under the throttle quadrant / I don't need the cable or the lever,just the mechanism that opens the throttle a tad.

03-12-2015, 07:35 AM	#5
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	Yes, its a button that locks on 748/916 and I think the mechanism for it is in the throttle itself pushing the button moves the throttle a small amount and when you turn the throttle the button pops back out. Its a lever like a choke on the S4 and you can control to a certain degree how much you want to open the throttles which can sometimes be a bit hit and miss. The lever is part of the switch gear housing so maybe its different switchgear you have? Easiest would maybe to try and fit a 916 style throttle assembly. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

03-12-2015, 12:28 PM	#8
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	I've just bought a 996 throttle (single cable) for the sake of its fast idle button. When it arrives I could have a look at the part you require and see if its possible to copy it. edit .... ah, it seems from your last post that we are talking about two different systems. Last edited by utopia; 03-12-2015 at 12:30 PM..

03-12-2015, 04:31 PM	#11
Dukedesmo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Leics Bike: M900 Posts: 2,838	Fitted here, if you look closely you can see the button under the throttle cam part; I replaced a 'Motion Pro' twistgrip that was supplied with the FCR kit because it was tricky to run the bike whilst cold due to having no cold start or fast idle setting. The 916 twistgrip has a 'switch' underneath that holds the throttle open just a small amount and you can get some degree of adjustment by altering the amount of slack in the cable, I set it to get around 2000rpm on fast idle which seems to work well enough but as soon as you close the throttle it will disengage. Tip, if you set it high enough you can use it as a kind of 'cruise-control'. It is seriously shorter in action than the Motion Pro but I can't directly compare to the OEM Monster throttle because I never had one. The 916 throttle is only 1/4 turn on a 916 but was about 1/2 that on my Monster! - To counter this I bought the throttle tamer tube and that makes the action about the same as my 916 which in turn is fitted with a quick-action cam on the injector bodies - so both a tad under a 1/4 turn, although the Monster throttle is significantly heavier due to the stronger springs on the FCrs. Certainly means I can get on the throttle quickly but before 'taming' it was difficult to hold a steady throttle at lower speeds, meaning the delivery could feel even less refined! All that fades into insignificance when I ride the old LeMans which has a massively heavy throttle whilst at the same time requiring a second 'bite' to get full throttle due to having such a long throttle action - I'd like to get a quick throttle for it but I'd probably need both hands to twist it... __________________ M900, 916, LeMans II.

03-12-2015, 06:45 PM	#12
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	And some pics of my 748:- __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

02-12-2015, 07:44 PM	#2
Nottsbiker Guest Posts: n/a	Think 916 / 996 etc ones fit which should increase your chances of getting what you need.

03-12-2015, 06:06 AM	#3
bluestoesonnose Guest Posts: n/a	No Idea what these parts are but I'd be interested as my M1000 won't start now unless it has two batteries on it. I'm in the process of getting the starter rebuilt and fitting better leads but every little helps....

03-12-2015, 06:34 AM	#4
Nottsbiker Guest Posts: n/a	I'm assuming he means the small button on the throttle that holds it slightly open ala 916 etc

03-12-2015, 12:22 PM	#7
Drumnagorrach Guest Posts: n/a	Well not what I was looking for initially,but it might be an idea. The bit I am looking for is held on the right hand side of the throttle bodies ,on an earlier injected monster ,there are twocables to the throttle body,one is the throttle cable the other the fast idle.It operates a mech that in effect moves the throttle stop a tad .Thats what I want to do to save me having to hold the throttle open a tad for the first few minutes after a cold start.

03-12-2015, 03:34 PM	#10
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	I paid £32 delivered, off ebay. Took a bit of a flyer though as the pics didn't show the fast Idle button very clearly .. I think its the right one though. For that, I got the full works, ie twistgrip, housing and cable. Seemed a decent price compared to others so I nabbed it, but ... I nearly waited and had a bid on this ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUCATI-916...wAAOSwcBhWWzLm Definitely can't see the fast idle button on this one though, so might be worth asking before bidding. Note, as Tim says, its a single cable throttle ... which is probably what you're after, but just saying in case. Also it may have a faster action, though then again maybe not compared to your original .. my original is slower (and therefore lighter too) though. Mine should be here in a day or two, in case you want to compare notes again before bidding ....? ps. I haven't forgotten that I owe you a fiver for postage by the way. I've been waiting while trying to find a suitable trinket to include as a thank-you before sending it.

03-12-2015, 10:43 PM	#13
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	Yep, that looks like the jobbie that I hope I've just bought. Discussing this with Capo, I learned that there are three different types of cold start devices on injected monsters. The earliest has a separate cold start lever on the left handlebar. The next has the throttle with cold start advance button. And the latest has it all controlled by the ecu. It would seem that you have the latter type, Drum, and our thoughts were that it would be best to look for a fault therein before bypassing the issue with one of the other systems added in. Then again, you're probably well aware of that anyway and I guess there's no particular harm in fitting the button and it might "solve" the problem in the short term. I dunno what sensor/s it uses but I imagine the intended benefit of the ecu controlled system is that it can vary the amount of "cold start" according to maybe ambient conditions and/or engine temp or idle speed. I'd be inclined to look for a problem with a sensor of that ilk somewhere. While also bidding on the button throttle if it doesn't go sky high. Tim, the throttle tamer looks interesting. I'll see how I get on but I might just end up with one myself. Also, is that a Corbin seat ? I don't remember that before. Looks just like mine, actually. Personally, I think the pillion scoop on the Corbin (sans cowl) really suits the lines of the monster, better than the std seat either naked or cowled. Apologies for thread digression.

04-12-2015, 09:46 AM	#15
Dukedesmo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Leics Bike: M900 Posts: 2,838	It is a Sargent seat, I bought it on impulse (late-night ebay) even though I wasn't keen on the red piping - but the price was right. Having tried it and, despite preferring the look of my DP, so called 'comfort' seat, it is much more comfortable and also sits me about 1" higher which helps with the seat to footrest position that was too cramped before. Plus it has more underseat storage. As for the exhaust heat shields, they came with the exhausts. I do actually have a spare LH side shield that I bought (again late-night ebay) in case of emergency, because knowing that they are probably difficult (and expensive) to get hold of new, if I see something interesting I get it for my spares collection. With regards to the throttle tamer, it works very well and actually has a slower ramp at low throttle openings, which is a great help but then speeds up at higher openings. I was dubious when I first saw it but it makes a big difference in user-friendliness because the throttle was ridiculously short action and heavy before. However I don't know if the standard Monster carb setup action is similar to the FCRs so can't say if you would have the same problem with the Mikunis... __________________ M900, 916, LeMans II.