puncture repair advice sought.

[utopia]

I picked up a 2cm length of broken round needle file in my rear tyre last night.
A neat hole, about 3mm dia , fairly square to the tyre surface and about 2cm off the tyre's centreline.
The tyre is a Michelin PR2 which has served me pretty well for nearly 7000 miles, but it still retains a decent profile and looks to me like it might have another two or three thousand miles in it.
But if I was going to shell out for a professional repair, I almost might as well fit a new tyre instead. ....and I'd rather not do that just now as I might (unusualy) be doing a few motorway miles in the not too distant, and I might as well square the old tyre off, rather than a new one.
So, I was wondering how folks might rate the "temporary" type plug repairs as a longer term proposition.
As I said, its a neat, clean hole, in a good position and nicely square to the surface, so it seems to me that it should stand half a chance of going the distance.
The bike's a 750 and I do use it, but I don't cane it.

Or alternatively, how common is it for a tyre supplier to offer a free lifetime repair ?
The tyre came from a local specialist bike tyre fitter, who I get all my tyres from.

[Flip]

Temporary repairs are just that really- a kind of get you home jobbie that work simply by plugging the hole enough to stop the air escaping.

Whereas, a professional repair involves the tyre being taken off the rim and depending on the tyres construction it is repaired either with a patch or a kind of mushroom shaped item to patch and plug the hole both usually using a form of cold vulcanising solution (glue!).

Different tyre manufacturers have different recommendations on the repairing of (or not) their tyres with regards to the size of puncture as well as placement (a lot even do tests with three or more repairs in a tyre to see how they hold up) and so you need to check with Michelin (in your case) to seek their advice.

As with most things, people will have their own ideas of risk in this situation but have a thought to the stresses that go through a motorcycle tyre- far more acceleration that many 'performance' cars ever see through loading which puts a lot of heat into the carcass and over time a lot of 'cycles' of getting hot then cooling then hot again (repeat for X thousands of miles) all adding to the stresses, then think about a repair in that tyre doing the same. Add to that the reasonably high speed of keeping up with the traffic on a busy motorway and not a lot of options should anything turn nasty.

Or another way, are you and your bike worth less than the price of a new tyre.... just a thought

Or for the Scooby-Do ending: Move to India, Africa (or a remote land of your choice) and ride around all day on patched up, balding and under inflated tyres forever in complete happiness!

[Nickj]

The temporary rubber band kits work OK but the 'real' mushroom type are the biz.
Sounds like your hole is in the right area to be fixed in this way, just visit whoever is your local bike tyre specialist or any good tyre fitter.

I've done lots of fast miles on these with no problems.

[jerry]

I ran a Diablo rosso for 5000 miles with a patch no problem ther is a lot of paranoia about tyres most of it generated by people with vested interests to sell more new tyres

Get fixed and il give you a treatment of puncture safe
Dam good stuff!!!
Run my bikes on it.
Will stop it happening again well stop any leaks!!!

[Flip]

I'm not saying don't get it fixed if there is life in in it to make the cost of repair a worthwhile prospect- I was simply saying that the get you home repairs are just that- to get you home!

The important part is to have the correct type of repair done because the construction of some tyres means that the 'mushroom' type plug shouldn't be used at it separates the belts that run in the carcass causing them to swell either side of the plug part which is why you need to go to someone who has the information on the tyres' construction. The manufacturers produce a reference book that tells a Tyre Tech how to patch a particular brand and model tyre, thus making it a safe repair.

As for the 'Gloop' type tyre sealant, the main problems I see with it are that you never know whether or not you have picked up punctures and so could be riding round with a potentially very dangerous tyre without knowing it and as a punctured tubeless tyre tends to deflate fairly slowly (obviously the distance travelled on a deflating tyre is relative to the speed you're riding at the time) unless of course it's a catastrophic failure which the sealant would never contain anyway.

The second problem with these sealants is that if you do find out where your tyre is punctured and then go to get it repaired it can make the repair impossible due to the sealant coating the entire inside of both the tyre and your wheel making it very difficult to clean off properly causing the repair glue not to work.

Thirdly, many sealants remain liquid until they are needed to fill a hole and so can throw the wheel balance out depending on how much people put in.

I do see they have a place in tube type fitments however, where there is very little time between puncture to complete deflation and where the tube can be replaced instead of repaired. I use it in my old 10'' Vespa wheels for the simple reason that if they get a puncture at even 30mph it would probably mean a bounce along the road.

Conversely though, I don't use anything in my race bike tyres that are fitted with inner tubes.......

[Mr Gazza]

You mentioned a life time guarantee on tyres utopia.

My car tyres have this, and it sounds an immpresive deal....Until you read the small print.

They do give you a free new tyre if somthing goes wrong with yours....But..! You pay for the wear on your old tyre pro rata until by the time you have a half worn tyre you actually pay full price for your free tyre..!!!!

BTW my last Triumph had a PR2 on the back with a "couple of thousand" miles left in it and I couldn't get rid of it quick enough...Bike tyres are bloody awful when they get down to the "legal" limits.

But then I think I would share your sentiments about putting a flat on a new tyre with the motorway work...

[utopia]

Thanks for the replies, y'all.
And, sorry if it sounded like a bit of a greenhorn type of question.
To be more specific, the type of plug that I was considering using is made by Rema/Tip-top, and is a funny shaped thing, kinda like two back to back arrowheads in 1/4 inch thick rubber, with a slot down the middle to take the insertion tool.
Back in the old tube days, I rated this company's patches far higher than the usual type, and hence I have some confidence in their products in general.
But I've never used the plugs before, and only carry them as a "get you home" fix in preference to using the slime type sealants, which I'm wary of for the reasons that Flip describes.
I hadn't looked closely at them, but now that I do I'm inclined to think that they are nothing like as secure as the full mushroom type of plug which is inserted from the inside of the tyre and has a much broader head than the Rema ones.
I think I'll probably end up having my local bike tyre specialist fit one of the mushroom type, as I'm pretty confident in those for the neat type of puncture that I have, and would trust it for the remaining life of the tyre.
But that'll have to wait 'til Monday, so in the meantime I would still be interested to hear if anyone has used one of the Rema type plugs over a longish period and got away with it.
In fact I may just fit one anyway, without using any of the glue that comes with the kit, just so I can have a look at it from the inside and make a judgement on its security, when the tyre comes off for the proper repair. ...the tyre guy is only a mile or so down the road so it won't be going far.

[utopia]

Well, the tyre guy was shut on monday and tuesday, but today I was able to confirm his prices, which were £35 if you take the whole bike in and £25 for just the bare wheel. (and no free repair on tyres supplied by themselves, unfortunately)
That's the sort of money that I could do with saving to be honest and, having had a few days to wait, I've come up with a plan.
It seems that it is possible to buy the pukka, professional, wired mushroom type of repair patch/plug and a small tube of vulcanising cement for only a fiver, delivered.
Here's an ebay link to those..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2008636900...84.m1438.l2649......
So, I've decided to have a go at doing it myself.
I've not worked on a cast wheel, or a tubeless tyre before, so I was a bit apprehensive.

First, I managed to break the bead seal on one side by squeezing the tyre in the vice, with suitable shaped wooden blocks on the jaws.
The second seal was more problematic, but I employed a stout length of timber (half an old fence post) as a lever, my ancient and massively heavy centre lathe as a fulcrum, and another suitably shaped wooden block to push the bead, while the rim was protected with an old towel. This worked like a charm, and in future I would do both beads this way.
Then I used some cable ties to squeeze the two beads together around one half of the tyre's circumference, so the beads would drop nicely into the well of the rim. This made it much easier to remove the tyre.
I also made three rim protectors out of some short pieces of nylon tubing slit lengthways. These worked like a charm too.
Being wary of using too much lubricant which may degrade the tyre, I used the merest smear of silicone grease just around the very lip of the rim.
Then with minimal use of levers, I was able to remove the tyre from the rim quite easily, and with no hint whatsoever of damage to either the rim or the tyre.
I was pleasantly surprised.

So I've ordered the mushrooms now, and while I'm waiting for them to arrive I have the bonus of being able to give the wheel a right good clean and wax.

Hopefully, refitting will be fairly straightforward, now that I've got my hand in.
I plan to use a ratchet tie-down strap to squeeze the tyre around the circumference in order to get the beads to reseal, if that should prove necessary.
I think that should just about cover it, but if anyone has any further advice on diy tyre fitting, it would of course be most welcome.

The only area that still remains unclear is whether to use any sort of cleaning fluid when preparing the surrounding area for the vulcanising cement. I probably won't, for fear of degrading the rubber, but your thoughts on this would be particularly helpful. Needless to say, I'd rather use something that I already have in the shed, like meths or something, than spend money on the pukka cleaning/buffing fluid if possible. I'll probably just use mechanical/abrasive methods to be on the safe side, but I don't want to risk compromising the integrity of the repair by failing to clean the surfaces properly.

So there you have it.
£20 or £30 saved and I now have a deeper knowledge of my bike and the satisfaction of achieving a diy result ...assuming that the rest of the job goes ok.
I'll report in due course, but hopefully it'll be done in time to go to donnington on sunday.

Nice one. If I ever get stuck on a desert island can you be my phone a friend?

I've watched tyre monkeys fix cars tyres loads of times and they never use anything to clean the inside. Just a light rub down with some sand paper seems to be the method.

I can't comment about the tyre repair but I've always fitted my own tyres from when I started riding at age 16.

I am a bit concerned about using silicone grease to refit the tyre as it may not dry and the tyre could slip on rim. You mentioned Rema and I've currently got some of their tyre soap - about a tenner for 1kg. Washing-up liquid is not advised due to the salt content corroding the rim but liquid soap is ok though.

You are right about getting the beads into the tyre well on the oposite side but I always kneel on the tyre to squeeze together and it works well. The way to do it is not try to get too long a section of tyre on in one go and short levers are all you need - mine are 220mm long. There is a tyre fitting guide somewhere on the net where the guy recommends 2ft long levers - complete nonsense!

The ratchet strap may work although a good blast from a compressor is best but do it with the valve core out. From my experience - the worst tyres to seal against the rim are Pirelli as the side walls are too flexible.

If you are going to fit your tyres from now on I can recommend the Abba bead breaker - absolutely brilliant. Also, the rim protectors you buy with the cord attached are not expensive and you can retrieve them if you lose one inside tyre.

I also spend a bit of time balancing the wheel and use a balancer shaft mounted on 2 car axle stands.

I had the rear tyre on my 996 plugged some years ago and the repairer said it would be good for
150mph, I was a bit worried as I would have to go to that speed to test it, obviously. And I did. And faster.
As others have said, proper tyre plugs are great and do last.

[utopia]

Yes, I've always fitted my own tyres in the past, apart from on the monster which is the first bike I've owned with cast wheels, and I was a bit wary.
Not only did I expect it to be more difficult, but there was also the potential for very expensive damage.
To be honest though, I found it easier than for a spoked wheel.

Don't worry about the silicone grease. I used a miniscule amount and then wiped it off again to leave a vague slipperyness ...more of a "trace" really.
It was only applied to the very edge of the rim, and none got anywhere near the area where the bead sits.
I share your dislike of using washing up liquid.
I had heard than liquid hand soap will do the trick (and I assume doesn't contain salt), but I'm equally wary of any product that isn't specifically intended for the job.
I could buy the proper stuff, but this is supposed to be a low cost repair, and all these things soon mount up.
I might just give the rim edges a damn good wax polishing. ...again not the actual bead seat areas.

In the end, I found a supplier of tyre cleaning/buffing fluid, but I even baulked at the £6 delivered price for an aerosol of the stuff.
So I wiped the area with a bit of kitchen roll dipped in meths (again not very much, and at least it evapourates pretty quickly).
Then I set about it with a small, rounded grindstone in the leccy drill to remove the rest of the slippery surface as well as the rippled texture of the internal surface.
That all looks as clean as a whistle now, and I'm confident that its adequately prepared.

I've marked the original tyre position so it can go back in exactly the same spot, so the balance should still be pretty good.
I know there is the extra weight of the plug/patch to consider, but that will be miniscule and probably less than the graduation between available balancing weights anyway.
And it is the rear tyre. I might be more cautious about the front, but would probably end up making the same assumptions.
If I was fitting a new tyre, I'd probably have a go at balancing it myself, but would then take it to be dynamically balanced afterwards ...and take note of any discrepencies that were shown.
Static balancing is better than nothing, but it does have its limits.

Mack.... you've got me worried now.
My bike isn't capable of reaching those speeds !!

Dirty... if you had a phone you wouldn't need me .....but yes, if you like.

Someone recommended this kit when I got a puncture on a new rear tyre on my 748R, after I’d tried Ultraseal, which didn’t work. He swore by them, so I thought I’d give it a go.

http://www.wemoto.com/parts/picture/ms-kp203-check/

The repair worked brilliantly, for the life of the tyre, and that was riding regularly at speeds of 140 plus mph. Maybe I was lucky, but considering the cost of supersport tyres I was willing to take the risk. Perhaps if it was the front I would have been a bit more cautious.

I generally carry the kit with me whenever I go for a ride, as it‘s perfect for roadside emergencies, especially as it’s got gas canisters to re-inflate the wheel. Not that I’ve had to test them out yet, luckily...

[utopia]

Yes, the Rema roadside repair kit that I have is similar to that, but instead of the "strings" it uses weird, pre-shaped doodads which look to have a bit more of an internal retaining lip on them ...but still not a very big one.
But at those speeds, and for that length of time, then yes, I think you probably were lucky.
My Rema ones are only rated up to about 45mph, and only for a very short distance too.
I guess you could reduce the risk by using one of the gloop-type internal sealant fluids to back it up, but they're too messy for me, and I still wouldn't really fancy it.