final and complete loss of faith

utopia · 23-11-2010, 03:35 PM

I was in court today.
Another bloody speed camera, and I decided to make a stand this time.
It was 41mph, briefly, at 3.15am on a completely deserted road in good conditions. My regular route home for decades, so I'm very familiar with the location. No traffic, no parked cars, no pedestrians, nothing. I was in my astra estate.
Anyway, I turn up at court and after a three hour wait, its eventually time for my case.
My argument was presented clearly and politely, and based upon the suggestion that the offence did not constitute bad driving as such, but merely the breaking of the letter of the law, and that in particular the allocation of penalty points was inappropriate as they should only be used in cases of bad driving as opposed to merely a technical legal infringement.
As expected, I was completely wasting my time. The judgement was still 3 points, but total fine/costs bill was increased from £60 to £155.
Funny bit was though, I asked if I could comment on the judgement. They seemed surprised at this and didn't really answer, so I commented anyway, pointedly but politely, that I felt that the law had been seen to be a pretty blunt instrument in this case.
The reaction from the clerk was "just leave it, mr Goff, ok?.
I was flabbergasted. Sounded like some drunk in a pub.
I could feel my resistance slipping away and I could hardly believe it but I heard myself reply, in similar pub fashion...."why, do you want to make something of it?"
Of course I didn't mean that at all. I was merely criticising the nature of the clerk's comment by adopting the same tone myself, though I didn't expect them to understand that. After all, they'd failed to understand my earlier rational points.
Anyway, I got away with it.
So I suppose that wasn't too bad overall.

23-11-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisyloo

Your points are entirely voluntary.

So should we just bend over and quietly take it without protest?

23-11-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

So should we just bend over and quietly take it without protest?

If you have actually broken the law then that would be the sensible thing to do, yes.
A bit of remorse wouldn't go down too badly either.
Would have saved £95 and 3 hours in this case.

23-11-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mintyhit

So should we just bend over and quietly take it without protest?

When you're bang to rights, then perhaps yes.

23-11-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisyloo

But going to court when you've broken the law is not the way to acheive that is it?

Name a better way of changing the law? You have heard of legal precedents?

Admittedly I agree it is probably futile but I don't think anyone can be criticised for arguing against a law in court.

... EDIT: You changed your post Lisyloo...

David Matthews · 23-11-2010, 04:22 PM

I think that you made some very reasonable points and I sympathise with you, well done for having your say in court.

I did the Bikesafe course recently with Dorset Police and whilst they didn't openly criticise speed cameras I was left in no doubt that more than one of the police riders present were less than impressed by the effectiveness of cameras.

23-11-2010, 04:36 PM

no faith but lots of gut's

LVC · 23-11-2010, 04:57 PM

Well done with making a stand but having been there myself (1 month ban for having an accident caused by a blown tyre caused by a hole in the road caused by the French state not repairing it due to the summer heat, etc. etc.) it's not really worrth the time or effort - accept the punishment smug in the knowledge that you got caught once but considering the numerous amount of times we've all driven over the speed limit etc. etc. etc. the odds aren't that bad.

Capo · 23-11-2010, 05:15 PM

In this case, the fee for exercising your right was £95.
I'm suprised you didn't get done for contempt.

23-11-2010, 05:18 PM

Most of us have probably rationalised why it's ok sometimes to break the speed limit, I've done it myself where NSL applies. It's in the knowledge that if I'm caught then I'm breaking the law and will likely 'get done'. I guess the law has to be implemented like this to avoid ambiguity.

Fair do's for trying to get them to see your point though, but I'm not surprised it didn't help you get off.

Mr.Number · 23-11-2010, 05:34 PM

Static gatso ?

23-11-2010, 05:51 PM

you are right to moan the law is an ass , held up by nob ends who drive at 29mph all the time, the way i see when i do get caught and it will probily be for somthing minimal it will be kama for all the bad things i do like 120 down deserted country lanes early in the morning

utopia · 23-11-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capo

In this case, the fee for exercising your right was £95.
I'm suprised you didn't get done for contempt.

Exactly.....on both counts..

utopia · 23-11-2010, 06:17 PM

Come to think of it, I wouldn't have minded the contempt charge......it would at least have been justified.

Mr.Number · 23-11-2010, 07:53 PM

Not a static gatso then ?

23-11-2010, 03:35 PM	#1
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	final and complete loss of faith I was in court today. Another bloody speed camera, and I decided to make a stand this time. It was 41mph, briefly, at 3.15am on a completely deserted road in good conditions. My regular route home for decades, so I'm very familiar with the location. No traffic, no parked cars, no pedestrians, nothing. I was in my astra estate. Anyway, I turn up at court and after a three hour wait, its eventually time for my case. My argument was presented clearly and politely, and based upon the suggestion that the offence did not constitute bad driving as such, but merely the breaking of the letter of the law, and that in particular the allocation of penalty points was inappropriate as they should only be used in cases of bad driving as opposed to merely a technical legal infringement. As expected, I was completely wasting my time. The judgement was still 3 points, but total fine/costs bill was increased from £60 to £155. Funny bit was though, I asked if I could comment on the judgement. They seemed surprised at this and didn't really answer, so I commented anyway, pointedly but politely, that I felt that the law had been seen to be a pretty blunt instrument in this case. The reaction from the clerk was "just leave it, mr Goff, ok?. I was flabbergasted. Sounded like some drunk in a pub. I could feel my resistance slipping away and I could hardly believe it but I heard myself reply, in similar pub fashion...."why, do you want to make something of it?" Of course I didn't mean that at all. I was merely criticising the nature of the clerk's comment by adopting the same tone myself, though I didn't expect them to understand that. After all, they'd failed to understand my earlier rational points. Anyway, I got away with it. So I suppose that wasn't too bad overall.

23-11-2010, 04:57 PM	#8
LVC The Loire Valley Monster Join Date: May 2006 Location: South of Le Mans Bike: S4 Posts: 709	Well done with making a stand but having been there myself (1 month ban for having an accident caused by a blown tyre caused by a hole in the road caused by the French state not repairing it due to the summer heat, etc. etc.) it's not really worrth the time or effort - accept the punishment smug in the knowledge that you got caught once but considering the numerous amount of times we've all driven over the speed limit etc. etc. etc. the odds aren't that bad. __________________ *Kiss French, Play Japanese, Ride Italian....*

23-11-2010, 05:34 PM	#11
Mr.Number Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: merseyside Bike: S2r 1000 Posts: 168	... Static gatso ?

23-11-2010, 07:53 PM	#15
Mr.Number Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: merseyside Bike: S2r 1000 Posts: 168	.... Not a static gatso then ?

23-11-2010, 04:22 PM	#6
David Matthews Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sturminster Newton Bike: S2r 1000 Posts: 162	I think that you made some very reasonable points and I sympathise with you, well done for having your say in court. I did the Bikesafe course recently with Dorset Police and whilst they didn't openly criticise speed cameras I was left in no doubt that more than one of the police riders present were less than impressed by the effectiveness of cameras.

23-11-2010, 04:36 PM	#7
Chris & Nean Guest Posts: n/a	no faith but lots of gut's

23-11-2010, 05:15 PM	#9
Capo You Are What You Is Join Date: May 2005 Location: A Foward Location Bike: S4r Posts: 1,948	In this case, the fee for exercising your right was £95. I'm suprised you didn't get done for contempt.

23-11-2010, 05:18 PM	#10
Mohawk Guest Posts: n/a	Most of us have probably rationalised why it's ok sometimes to break the speed limit, I've done it myself where NSL applies. It's in the knowledge that if I'm caught then I'm breaking the law and will likely 'get done'. I guess the law has to be implemented like this to avoid ambiguity. Fair do's for trying to get them to see your point though, but I'm not surprised it didn't help you get off.

23-11-2010, 05:51 PM	#12
motojohn Guest Posts: n/a	you are right to moan the law is an ass , held up by nob ends who drive at 29mph all the time, the way i see when i do get caught and it will probily be for somthing minimal it will be kama for all the bad things i do like 120 down deserted country lanes early in the morning

23-11-2010, 06:17 PM	#14
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	Come to think of it, I wouldn't have minded the contempt charge......it would at least have been justified.