Chain !!

vince53 · 13-04-2019, 08:14 PM

hi guys , just got a 1100s few months ago new tyres put on pretty much strait away , looking like I need a chain ? guy I got it from said he had it tightened by bike shop just before I got it ,now seems slack , so as far as I see it when that happens its nackerd , got 13 and a half k miles on it now so guna go for a new one , so the question is is the 2 bolts on the back tensioner thingy a big deal or just as it looks ? undo move for tension do up ...iv bought the tool to turn it , is it a big deal or an ok job , also any ideas on rear paddock stand been borrowing a mate's but really should buy one ! tyres nearly there again now anyway , going for DID extreme 15k warranty one ? thoughts tips on the job much appreciated , many thanks vince .

rollo22 · 13-04-2019, 08:41 PM

The 2 bolts on the hub need to be torqued up.
Hopefully someone will be along with the correct value.

slob · 13-04-2019, 08:42 PM

Pick a link on the back sprocket and pull it outwards, away from the axle, if it lifts away from the sprocket more than a couple of mm, it’s time for new chain & sprockets.
The tool you need is a c-spanner, like
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUCATI-Mo...-/323500563567
You also want a torque wrench so you can tighten the pinch bolts correctly, I *THINK* this is 31Nm (but you should check)

Luddite · 13-04-2019, 09:50 PM

Slob is, (as ever!), correct - the two bolts should be torqued to 31Nm after applying some moly grease to the threads. Tighten them in the sequence 1-2-1.

When you check the play, you're not measuring the up and down movement as you would with a conventional swinging arm, instead you measure the distance from the underside of the swinging arm to the centre of one of the chain pins. It should be 62mm +/- 1mm at a point equidistant between the two sprockets with the bike on the sidestand.

Note that, while the suggested amount of play seems very loose compared with a conventional swinging arm, when you're sat on the bike, the chain tightens considerably so don't be tempted to over tighten it while it's on the stand. Get someone to sit on it and feel the difference between loaded and unloaded.

As for the chain itself, I've got a gold DID x-ring on my Evo. It's done about 8,000 miles so far with no real signs of wear. If you're going to fit the chain yourself, you'll also want a chain riveting tool for the joining link (don't be tempted to use the split-link.)

vince53 · 13-04-2019, 10:37 PM

very cool Guys many thanks ,yes I did the pull chain off back sprocket check its had it I think , but like I said its done 13 1/2 k , so this will be it's first chain , again thanks for the torque settings , iv got the tool to set tension , all seems fairly strait forward just wanted to check in as only done this on old swing arm version , just gives you a bit of confidence to get on with the job after getting some feedback from those that have been there before ,, thanks SLOB ROLLO LUD , found rear stand on ebay about £80 unless anyone knows any better deals ? thx again .v.

Tim88 · 13-04-2019, 11:04 PM

I would advise to cut the old chain off (if its knackered) with your Dremel and a cutting disc, just cut through the links. Fit new DID zvmx gold chain using genuine DiD tool. I didn't do this of course because it was my first time, as it were. I trusted some nonsense on YouTube that suggested that you could push the pins out with a chain tool without first grinding off the rivet heads. You can't, you just break the pin on the tool. I did this half deliberately as an experiment. I was using a £20 Chinese DID style tool and pin. I had also bought a genuine DID pin for £30 which you need anyway in order to form the rivet heads properly, so I still have a functional tool (for half the price of the real thing, and it's the pin that counts , rest of the tool is identical to the DID original) which can push out pre-ground pins and form the heads properly. Or just get the shop to do it.

Tim88 · 13-04-2019, 11:13 PM

Just another thought, it is important to form the heads of the rivets properly so use your vernier calipers to measure both the overall length of the pins and the diameter of the head versus the other pins on the chain, you must also feel and observe the progress of your work frequently during the joining operation to ensure that everything is square at all times and that the head is being formed symetrically.

Luddite · 13-04-2019, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince53

found rear stand on ebay about £80 unless anyone knows any better deals ?.

Just be aware that there are a number of different pin sizes for Ducati single-sided swinging arm stands - make sure yours is 25.7mm.

damien666 · 14-04-2019, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim88

I would advise to cut the old chain off (if its knackered) with your Dremel and a cutting disc, just cut through the links. Fit new DID zvmx gold chain using genuine DiD tool. I didn't do this of course because it was my first time, as it were. I trusted some nonsense on YouTube that suggested that you could push the pins out with a chain tool without first grinding off the rivet heads. You can't, you just break the pin on the tool. I did this half deliberately as an experiment. I was using a £20 Chinese DID style tool and pin. I had also bought a genuine DID pin for £30 which you need anyway in order to form the rivet heads properly, so I still have a functional tool (for half the price of the real thing, and it's the pin that counts , rest of the tool is identical to the DID original) which can push out pre-ground pins and form the heads properly. Or just get the shop to do it.

Funnily enough i went through exactly the same errors on fitting first chain.
Cut through with grinder and genuine DID tool for the win. It made neat mushroom heads on joining rivets.

vince53 · 14-04-2019, 10:14 PM

thanks again guys , no worries on changing chain done that a few times , just wanted to check in with the new tensioning method with the single sided swingarm set up , so all good now and ordered stand, on looking at the rear spindle it seems it starts at 25.7 then go's into 21.7 ish ? so will see if what iv ordered works or may have to buy a 25 to 21 pin … joy lol ,thanks again all the best .

holty · 15-04-2019, 05:56 PM

If your chain and sprockets are in need for replacement then in my opinion it is a job for your local mechanic and workshop. I witnessed an expert Ducati mechanic take an hour and a half to do the swap. It involved a bench press, special rivet device, windy gun etc. I thought how hard can it be and after very glad that on this occasion I left the job to someone who knows what he is doing.

Darkness · 15-04-2019, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holty

If your chain and sprockets are in need for replacement then in my opinion it is a job for your local mechanic and workshop. I witnessed an expert Ducati mechanic take an hour and a half to do the swap. It involved a bench press, special rivet device, windy gun etc. I thought how hard can it be and after very glad that on this occasion I left the job to someone who knows what he is doing.

Or you could just px the bike and make it someone else’s problem, if money’s no object.

Uncle Bob · 09-08-2019, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luddite

Note that, while the suggested amount of play seems very loose compared with a conventional swinging arm, when you're sat on the bike, the chain tightens considerably so don't be tempted to over tighten it while it's on the stand. Get someone to sit on it and feel the difference between loaded and unloaded.

I have a question: Does this mean that chain tension is, to some degree, influenced by static sag?

The reason I ask is that I'm going to be setting up (fiddling with) the suspension shortly, and if the chain is a bit loose plus the sag is too little I may be able to kill two birds with one stone i.e. by adding a little more static sag it will tighten the chain slightly?

Ron1000 · 09-08-2019, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim88

Just another thought, it is important to form the heads of the rivets properly so use your vernier calipers to measure both the overall length of the pins and the diameter of the head versus the other pins on the chain, you must also feel and observe the progress of your work frequently during the joining operation to ensure that everything is square at all times and that the head is being formed symetrically.

Very good advice, Ari guy from MC Garage suggested this.

I was forced into doing my first chain on my mates bike....it's not came flying off so all good

Nickj · 09-08-2019, 03:02 PM

If its a hollow soft rivet then a pipe flaring bit to splay it, if its solid two hammers.
The real trick is in getting the spacing for the O or X rings correct, the link usually comes with a pair of plate or bent wire spacers for this.
I've never paid anyone to fit a chain in errr rather a lot of years .. I've snapped about two which is very messy

but never had a side plate come off.
Said it before somewhere but the side plates don't experience any significant axial forces (unless your sprocket alignment is all wrong) all they do is transmit longitudinal load so a tight interference fit is about all they need to stay at the right position to maintain the O/X ring clearances. The pins are usually a tight transition fit to the side plate to start with so don't actually need much expansion of the end to become a good interference fit, an expansion of 0.025 mm is surprising more than enough.

13-04-2019, 08:14 PM	#1
vince53 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: taunton Bike: M1100s Posts: 41	Chain !! hi guys , just got a 1100s few months ago new tyres put on pretty much strait away , looking like I need a chain ? guy I got it from said he had it tightened by bike shop just before I got it ,now seems slack , so as far as I see it when that happens its nackerd , got 13 and a half k miles on it now so guna go for a new one , so the question is is the 2 bolts on the back tensioner thingy a big deal or just as it looks ? undo move for tension do up ...iv bought the tool to turn it , is it a big deal or an ok job , also any ideas on rear paddock stand been borrowing a mate's but really should buy one ! tyres nearly there again now anyway , going for DID extreme 15k warranty one ? thoughts tips on the job much appreciated , many thanks vince . Last edited by vince53; 13-04-2019 at 08:18 PM..

13-04-2019, 08:41 PM	#2
rollo22 Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Moreton-in-Marsh Bike: M1100evo Posts: 1,082	The 2 bolts on the hub need to be torqued up. Hopefully someone will be along with the correct value. __________________ IF ALL ELSE FAILS READ THE INSTRUCTIONS

14-04-2019, 10:14 PM	#10
vince53 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: taunton Bike: M1100s Posts: 41	thanks again guys , no worries on changing chain done that a few times , just wanted to check in with the new tensioning method with the single sided swingarm set up , so all good now and ordered stand, on looking at the rear spindle it seems it starts at 25.7 then go's into 21.7 ish ? so will see if what iv ordered works or may have to buy a 25 to 21 pin … joy lol ,thanks again all the best . Last edited by vince53; 15-04-2019 at 06:22 PM..

09-08-2019, 03:02 PM	#15
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,188	If its a hollow soft rivet then a pipe flaring bit to splay it, if its solid two hammers. The real trick is in getting the spacing for the O or X rings correct, the link usually comes with a pair of plate or bent wire spacers for this. I've never paid anyone to fit a chain in errr rather a lot of years .. I've snapped about two which is very messy but never had a side plate come off. Said it before somewhere but the side plates don't experience any significant axial forces (unless your sprocket alignment is all wrong) all they do is transmit longitudinal load so a tight interference fit is about all they need to stay at the right position to maintain the O/X ring clearances. The pins are usually a tight transition fit to the side plate to start with so don't actually need much expansion of the end to become a good interference fit, an expansion of 0.025 mm is surprising more than enough. __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

13-04-2019, 08:42 PM	#3
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,707	Pick a link on the back sprocket and pull it outwards, away from the axle, if it lifts away from the sprocket more than a couple of mm, it’s time for new chain & sprockets. The tool you need is a c-spanner, like https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUCATI-Mo...-/323500563567 You also want a torque wrench so you can tighten the pinch bolts correctly, I THINK this is 31Nm (but you should check)

13-04-2019, 09:50 PM	#4
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	Slob is, (as ever!), correct - the two bolts should be torqued to 31Nm after applying some moly grease to the threads. Tighten them in the sequence 1-2-1. When you check the play, you're not measuring the up and down movement as you would with a conventional swinging arm, instead you measure the distance from the underside of the swinging arm to the centre of one of the chain pins. It should be 62mm +/- 1mm at a point equidistant between the two sprockets with the bike on the sidestand. Note that, while the suggested amount of play seems very loose compared with a conventional swinging arm, when you're sat on the bike, the chain tightens considerably so don't be tempted to over tighten it while it's on the stand. Get someone to sit on it and feel the difference between loaded and unloaded. As for the chain itself, I've got a gold DID x-ring on my Evo. It's done about 8,000 miles so far with no real signs of wear. If you're going to fit the chain yourself, you'll also want a chain riveting tool for the joining link (don't be tempted to use the split-link.)

13-04-2019, 10:37 PM	#5
vince53 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: taunton Bike: M1100s Posts: 41	very cool Guys many thanks ,yes I did the pull chain off back sprocket check its had it I think , but like I said its done 13 1/2 k , so this will be it's first chain , again thanks for the torque settings , iv got the tool to set tension , all seems fairly strait forward just wanted to check in as only done this on old swing arm version , just gives you a bit of confidence to get on with the job after getting some feedback from those that have been there before ,, thanks SLOB ROLLO LUD , found rear stand on ebay about £80 unless anyone knows any better deals ? thx again .v.

13-04-2019, 11:04 PM	#6
Tim88 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: London Bike: M1100evo Posts: 98	I would advise to cut the old chain off (if its knackered) with your Dremel and a cutting disc, just cut through the links. Fit new DID zvmx gold chain using genuine DiD tool. I didn't do this of course because it was my first time, as it were. I trusted some nonsense on YouTube that suggested that you could push the pins out with a chain tool without first grinding off the rivet heads. You can't, you just break the pin on the tool. I did this half deliberately as an experiment. I was using a £20 Chinese DID style tool and pin. I had also bought a genuine DID pin for £30 which you need anyway in order to form the rivet heads properly, so I still have a functional tool (for half the price of the real thing, and it's the pin that counts , rest of the tool is identical to the DID original) which can push out pre-ground pins and form the heads properly. Or just get the shop to do it.

13-04-2019, 11:13 PM	#7
Tim88 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: London Bike: M1100evo Posts: 98	Just another thought, it is important to form the heads of the rivets properly so use your vernier calipers to measure both the overall length of the pins and the diameter of the head versus the other pins on the chain, you must also feel and observe the progress of your work frequently during the joining operation to ensure that everything is square at all times and that the head is being formed symetrically.

15-04-2019, 05:56 PM	#11
holty Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Glastonbury Bike: M1100 Posts: 96	If your chain and sprockets are in need for replacement then in my opinion it is a job for your local mechanic and workshop. I witnessed an expert Ducati mechanic take an hour and a half to do the swap. It involved a bench press, special rivet device, windy gun etc. I thought how hard can it be and after very glad that on this occasion I left the job to someone who knows what he is doing.