S4R brake upgrades

Wrider · 26-04-2021, 12:09 PM

Currently sat on the train home after dropping my bike at Cornerspeed for its service and was looking at prices for callipers rebuilt and painting.
Now I’m thinking I may as well look at upgrading, are there any straight swap upgrades from other bikes? Don’t fancy the hassle of going to radials.

Darren69 · 26-04-2021, 12:19 PM

The 4 pad triple bridge type from 999 should be a straight swap. How much of an improvement I don't know as it's still in my to do list. You will probably need new hoses as the hose fitting on the calipers are different but otherwise should swap over no problem.

chris.p · 26-04-2021, 12:19 PM

What Darren said ^^^^^

Darren69 · 26-04-2021, 12:48 PM

Those calipers are silver on the 749/999 bikes that I've seen. Mine came from an Aprilia RSV and are the same gold colour, probably cheaper to buy too.

Luddite · 26-04-2021, 01:22 PM

I fitted a pair of the four pad calipers that Darren mentioned to my S2R.

They came as a Ducati Performance kit complete with hoses:

[

They're P4/34s and the Brembo number is 20.7850.11. (LH) & 20.7850.21 (RH). They're actually still available new and Harris advertise them at £600 per pair complete with pads. (Carpimoto have them at £380 per pair ex-VAT https://www.carpimoto.it/en-GB/Searc...=1619443683172).

The main difference with the four pad calipers is that, with four leading edges acting on each disc, the initial bite when you squeeze the lever is noticeably, (and I mean noticeably!), sharper.

As Darren mentioned, you need different hoses as the banjo orientation is different between the OE calipers and the Goldlines as you can see from the pictures.

Definitely a worthwhile upgrade.

slob · 26-04-2021, 05:28 PM

As Luddite says, search for Aprilia/Brembo calipers on eBay, they’ll usually be cheaper than Ducati/Brembo ones.

The other reason for extra bite is there’s a third bolt in the ‘bridge’ which makes the caliper body much stiffer.

I have a pair on one of my M1000s, they’re excellent.

Wrider · 26-04-2021, 07:19 PM

Cheers guys currently scouring eBay for some.
Glad I need to get different hoses gives me an excuse to buy some nice new hel ones

Wrider · 26-04-2021, 08:17 PM

Found some callipers from a 996r would these be the ones?

Luddite · 26-04-2021, 08:41 PM

Yes, those will be the P4 34/34s that you're looking for. And they will work fine with your standard master cylinder.

Luddite · 26-04-2021, 08:58 PM

By the way, if you're buying second hand, you'll need to budget for new pads. You'll need 07BB33 in whatever compound suits you best.

If it helps, here are the dimensions/details of both the calipers and the pads:

chris.p · 26-04-2021, 09:51 PM

A word of warning, these callipers where made for other bike manufacturers with different mounting hole measurements, please remember that, Ducati & Aprilia use 65mm.

stopintime · 26-04-2021, 10:52 PM

What is your riding like? Kind of important since a so called upgrade might as well be wrong for you.

Super sonic cleaning and/or heavy degreaser and brushes to bring them back to life.

Then a suitable set of pads.

Then, for the money saved, a pair of good Brembo discs.

(the effect of the "999" four pads calipers over your own "996" two pads calipers is very small. Add the price of new lines and it does not make sense. Unless what you miss in life is to be able to brake two meters later than your competitors at the end of the straights of your favorite race track... That's why I asked about what your riding is like)

Jez900ie · 28-05-2021, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopintime

What is your riding like? Kind of important since a so called upgrade might as well be wrong for you.

Super sonic cleaning and/or heavy degreaser and brushes to bring them back to life.

Then a suitable set of pads.

Then, for the money saved, a pair of good Brembo discs.

(the effect of the "999" four pads calipers over your own "996" two pads calipers is very small. Add the price of new lines and it does not make sense. Unless what you miss in life is to be able to brake two meters later than your competitors at the end of the straights of your favorite race track... That's why I asked about what your riding is like)

When you put it like that ^^^ with real world differences, it makes it easy for people like me to never feel the need to upgrade my brakes! Thank you.

Pedro · 29-05-2021, 08:00 PM

Had the P4’s on my 1000DS, epic stopping power when combined with a radial master cylinder

Luddite · 29-05-2021, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro

Had the P4’s on my 1000DS, epic stopping power when combined with a radial master cylinder

Agreed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopintime

...the effect of the "999" four pads calipers over your own "996" two pads calipers is very small.

Having actually carried out this mod on my S2R, (which shares OE calipers with the S4R), I'd have to disagree with that.

Although you'll have slightly less pad area in contact with the disc with the new calipers i.e. 42.6cm³ (2 x 21.3cm³) per disc vs 39.6cm³ (4 x 9.9cm³) for old and new respectively, the overall stopping power is increased and the feel is quite different.

Because piston size increases from 30mm + 34mm (stock) to 2 x 34mm (P4s), you will get an increased force against the disc for any given effort at the lever. There will be slightly more lever travel but it's not enough to warrant a different master cylinder, (I certainly didn't have any problems running the P34s with the stock m/c on my S2R).

The thing you have to be wary of, especially until you are used to the feel of the new setup, is that, because of the increased initial bite, grabbing a handful of brakes in an emergency is more likely to result in an instant lockup - you need to treat them with respect and build up to maximum braking effort.

Boosting your brakes isn't all about lap times - I think anything that can help you stop quicker in an emergency is a worthwhile upgrade. You may only ever use the additional stopping power once but, if those calipers give you the extra metre you need to avoid that myopically driven SUV that pulls out on you during the school run, then that's money well spent in my book!

26-04-2021, 12:09 PM	#1
Wrider Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Telford Bike: S4r Posts: 174	S4R brake upgrades Currently sat on the train home after dropping my bike at Cornerspeed for its service and was looking at prices for callipers rebuilt and painting. Now I’m thinking I may as well look at upgrading, are there any straight swap upgrades from other bikes? Don’t fancy the hassle of going to radials.

26-04-2021, 12:19 PM	#2
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	The 4 pad triple bridge type from 999 should be a straight swap. How much of an improvement I don't know as it's still in my to do list. You will probably need new hoses as the hose fitting on the calipers are different but otherwise should swap over no problem. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

26-04-2021, 12:48 PM	#4
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	Those calipers are silver on the 749/999 bikes that I've seen. Mine came from an Aprilia RSV and are the same gold colour, probably cheaper to buy too. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

26-04-2021, 01:22 PM	#5
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	I fitted a pair of the four pad calipers that Darren mentioned to my S2R. They came as a Ducati Performance kit complete with hoses: [ They're P4/34s and the Brembo number is 20.7850.11. (LH) & 20.7850.21 (RH). They're actually still available new and Harris advertise them at £600 per pair complete with pads. (Carpimoto have them at £380 per pair ex-VAT https://www.carpimoto.it/en-GB/Searc...=1619443683172). The main difference with the four pad calipers is that, with four leading edges acting on each disc, the initial bite when you squeeze the lever is noticeably, (and I mean noticeably!), sharper. As Darren mentioned, you need different hoses as the banjo orientation is different between the OE calipers and the Goldlines as you can see from the pictures. Definitely a worthwhile upgrade. Last edited by Luddite; 26-04-2021 at 01:32 PM.. Reason: Carpimoto link added

26-04-2021, 05:28 PM	#6
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,709	As Luddite says, search for Aprilia/Brembo calipers on eBay, they’ll usually be cheaper than Ducati/Brembo ones. The other reason for extra bite is there’s a third bolt in the ‘bridge’ which makes the caliper body much stiffer. I have a pair on one of my M1000s, they’re excellent. Last edited by slob; 26-04-2021 at 05:32 PM..

26-04-2021, 12:19 PM	#3
chris.p Gold Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: lincoln Bike: No Bike Yet! Posts: 876	What Darren said ^^^^^

26-04-2021, 07:19 PM	#7
Wrider Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Telford Bike: S4r Posts: 174	Cheers guys currently scouring eBay for some. Glad I need to get different hoses gives me an excuse to buy some nice new hel ones

26-04-2021, 08:17 PM	#8
Wrider Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Telford Bike: S4r Posts: 174	Found some callipers from a 996r would these be the ones?

26-04-2021, 08:41 PM	#9
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	Yes, those will be the P4 34/34s that you're looking for. And they will work fine with your standard master cylinder.

26-04-2021, 08:58 PM	#10
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	By the way, if you're buying second hand, you'll need to budget for new pads. You'll need 07BB33 in whatever compound suits you best. If it helps, here are the dimensions/details of both the calipers and the pads:

26-04-2021, 09:51 PM	#11
chris.p Gold Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: lincoln Bike: No Bike Yet! Posts: 876	A word of warning, these callipers where made for other bike manufacturers with different mounting hole measurements, please remember that, Ducati & Aprilia use 65mm. Last edited by chris.p; 26-04-2021 at 10:27 PM..

26-04-2021, 10:52 PM	#12
stopintime Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Oslo Bike: S2r Posts: 426	What is your riding like? Kind of important since a so called upgrade might as well be wrong for you. Super sonic cleaning and/or heavy degreaser and brushes to bring them back to life. Then a suitable set of pads. Then, for the money saved, a pair of good Brembo discs. (the effect of the "999" four pads calipers over your own "996" two pads calipers is very small. Add the price of new lines and it does not make sense. Unless what you miss in life is to be able to brake two meters later than your competitors at the end of the straights of your favorite race track... That's why I asked about what your riding is like)

29-05-2021, 08:00 PM	#14
Pedro Ciao, come stai? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 4,157	Had the P4’s on my 1000DS, epic stopping power when combined with a radial master cylinder __________________ M900 - 1993! Monster 1200R!