Electric?

slob · 30-06-2022, 03:53 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnP9pWdMZh8

Albie · 30-06-2022, 04:21 PM

Looks good. But like everything for the road it may not suit needs. Its development and no doubt beyond most people's budgets as with cars. I only do right now 7 miles a day to where I could if needed park and charge or at home in my garage. Suits my needs not my pocket.

stopintime · 30-06-2022, 04:36 PM

WDW race of the champions (old and new) will be (?) on moto e bikes. I guess. They mention that this will be an electryfying race, sooo......

Mr Gazza · 30-06-2022, 05:31 PM

I love the way they are embracing this, the enthusiasm is obvious.
It's a great way to develop all the technology with a factory racing program and a clever way to pay for it too.
If this all rubs off on a road bike I reckon we might see something in less than 5 years, but I hope they keep their heads and don't try to make an electric Panagale, but rather something more usable like a Monster or ST.
There is so little in e-bikes between the 50/125 size and all out nutter bikes. I'd like to see something more affordable in the 500/750 equivalent size with a decent range... It will come.

jerry · 02-07-2022, 11:18 PM

Electric cars and bikes are DEAD end ,, Hydrogen ICE or Fuel cell is where its at ,, all the major engineering design consultancies and big manufactures know this and are putting big money into developing Hydrogen ,, battery Electric vehicles are the Betamax or future vehicle tech .Only the politicians and green idiots are pushing batteries because its trendy although unsustainable and ridiculously expensicve and polluting ,, Aero engine manufacturers also know that Hydrogen is the future too , so do the oil industry big players .

slob · 03-07-2022, 05:28 AM

the voice of big oil, the twenty first century equivalent of big tobacco?

Saint aka ML · 03-07-2022, 06:16 AM

Hydrogen is actually the dead end or Betamax.

We need better batteries and all are happy.

With hydrogen you need to get water (new oil), extract hydrogen (new oil refinery), deliver hydrogen to dedicated end location (new houlage and petrol station) then users need to go to fill up.

With electric it's already made as we already need it. Improve delivery efficiency and that's all.

Rule is simple simplify for efficiency. That is what electric vehicles do, cut out many middle parts.

Grumpy · 03-07-2022, 07:17 AM

Hydrogen domestic heating boilers are already being tested in the field.
Most of the major manufacturers produce boilers which are 20% hydrogen capable.
The biggest obstacle come in the form of converting the present supply chain from natural gas.
It's not a dead end. Rather which technology suits which application.
The cost to retrieve the relevant materials for manufacturing batteries combined with the extra power required by the electric grid is considerably.

Mr Gazza · 03-07-2022, 08:37 AM

Hydrogen. Been there, done that.

350TSS · 03-07-2022, 01:16 PM

This planet has currently (no pun intended) only a reserve of about 20 million tons of lithium. This will increase as the price rises and less economic deposits become viable for extraction. However even the most optimistic view of reserves will nowhere near cover the world demand for lithium, or indeed any other rare earth metals that could be used in batteries.
There will be a huge geopolitical issue as most of the potential supply source countries (for lithium and other rare earth metals) are already signed up to China and the US has little or no influence in those producer countries

jerry · 05-07-2022, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350TSS

This planet has currently (no pun intended) only a reserve of about 20 million tons of lithium. This will increase as the price rises and less economic deposits become viable for extraction. However even the most optimistic view of reserves will nowhere near cover the world demand for lithium, or indeed any other rare earth metals that could be used in batteries.
There will be a huge geopolitical issue as most of the potential supply source countries (for lithium and other rare earth metals) are already signed up to China and the US has little or no influence in those producer countries

Exactly Thats why longer term hydrogen is the way forward for motive power

Saint aka ML · 05-07-2022, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry

Exactly Thats why longer term hydrogen is the way forward for motive power

Well after watching last top gear and doing bit of digging synthetic fuel is the future. If you use clean energy to make it its 100% carbon neutral. 1kg of co2 used to make fuel will produce 1kg of co2 when burned in engine.

Can be used in any petrol engine and mixed with any other petrol.

That way petroleum industry will have to change. All while we make good for the planet as we extract co2 to make it and all cars already on road will be able to be used no problem (rather then needing to be scrapped).

You could in future make it at home (science is not complicated) and if you a mad man you buy some to power your generator to make electricity to make it. Then use some of it to power generator and so on....

jerry · 06-07-2022, 05:56 PM

They are working on synthetic fuels made from hydrogen ,, such as Hydrogel and Hydropel
both can be stored in semi liquid states not gaseous and can power ICE engines or fuel cells.

My brother is a research scientist and engineer working in EFI and Fuel systems at the top of research for major players in Automotive and fuels industries ,Paul talks with all the major insiders in these industries , he has been doing it for 40 years and he says the future for motion power for road travel and heavy vehicles and construction will not be electric , but 80% synthetics, hydrogen etc and 20% electric .Its not just economics its maths , resources and deliverability .. Hydrogen can be universal but Batteries in the long run dont add up unless major breakthroughs are practicable and can be resourced ..and thats not on the horizon .

Saint aka ML · 06-07-2022, 10:21 PM

Major battery brakethrough is well on the horizon. 1st production car with semi solid state batteries is on sale in China. Full solid state in testing. It has 40% more storage capacity in same space and less then half the weight. So we talking 2.8t tesla would be around 2t and have 500 miles range.
Solid state has less chemicals then liquid

30-06-2022, 03:53 PM	#1
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,707	Electric? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnP9pWdMZh8

30-06-2022, 04:21 PM	#2
Albie Fanactical volunteer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent Bike: M900 Posts: 9,030	Looks good. But like everything for the road it may not suit needs. Its development and no doubt beyond most people's budgets as with cars. I only do right now 7 miles a day to where I could if needed park and charge or at home in my garage. Suits my needs not my pocket. __________________ http://albies93m900.blogspot.co.uk/

30-06-2022, 05:31 PM	#4
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,793	I love the way they are embracing this, the enthusiasm is obvious. It's a great way to develop all the technology with a factory racing program and a clever way to pay for it too. If this all rubs off on a road bike I reckon we might see something in less than 5 years, but I hope they keep their heads and don't try to make an electric Panagale, but rather something more usable like a Monster or ST. There is so little in e-bikes between the 50/125 size and all out nutter bikes. I'd like to see something more affordable in the 500/750 equivalent size with a decent range... It will come. __________________

02-07-2022, 11:18 PM	#5
jerry Old Git Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cricklade Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,803	Electric cars and bikes are DEAD end ,, Hydrogen ICE or Fuel cell is where its at ,, all the major engineering design consultancies and big manufactures know this and are putting big money into developing Hydrogen ,, battery Electric vehicles are the Betamax or future vehicle tech .Only the politicians and green idiots are pushing batteries because its trendy although unsustainable and ridiculously expensicve and polluting ,, Aero engine manufacturers also know that Hydrogen is the future too , so do the oil industry big players . __________________ MONSTERMAN

03-07-2022, 06:16 AM	#7
Saint aka ML Junior ah to be young Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,058	Hydrogen is actually the dead end or Betamax. We need better batteries and all are happy. With hydrogen you need to get water (new oil), extract hydrogen (new oil refinery), deliver hydrogen to dedicated end location (new houlage and petrol station) then users need to go to fill up. With electric it's already made as we already need it. Improve delivery efficiency and that's all. Rule is simple simplify for efficiency. That is what electric vehicles do, cut out many middle parts. __________________ "I am Lucazade"

30-06-2022, 04:36 PM	#3
stopintime Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Oslo Bike: S2r Posts: 426	WDW race of the champions (old and new) will be (?) on moto e bikes. I guess. They mention that this will be an electryfying race, sooo......

03-07-2022, 05:28 AM	#6
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,707	the voice of big oil, the twenty first century equivalent of big tobacco?

03-07-2022, 07:17 AM	#8
Grumpy record breaker!! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Peterborough Bike: M1200R Posts: 2,154	Hydrogen domestic heating boilers are already being tested in the field. Most of the major manufacturers produce boilers which are 20% hydrogen capable. The biggest obstacle come in the form of converting the present supply chain from natural gas. It's not a dead end. Rather which technology suits which application. The cost to retrieve the relevant materials for manufacturing batteries combined with the extra power required by the electric grid is considerably. __________________ It's not the destination, but the journey that matters Definition of a motorbike, a devise for overtaking cars!

03-07-2022, 08:37 AM	#9
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,793	Hydrogen. Been there, done that. __________________

03-07-2022, 01:16 PM	#10
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	This planet has currently (no pun intended) only a reserve of about 20 million tons of lithium. This will increase as the price rises and less economic deposits become viable for extraction. However even the most optimistic view of reserves will nowhere near cover the world demand for lithium, or indeed any other rare earth metals that could be used in batteries. There will be a huge geopolitical issue as most of the potential supply source countries (for lithium and other rare earth metals) are already signed up to China and the US has little or no influence in those producer countries

06-07-2022, 05:56 PM	#13
jerry Old Git Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cricklade Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,803	They are working on synthetic fuels made from hydrogen ,, such as Hydrogel and Hydropel both can be stored in semi liquid states not gaseous and can power ICE engines or fuel cells. My brother is a research scientist and engineer working in EFI and Fuel systems at the top of research for major players in Automotive and fuels industries ,Paul talks with all the major insiders in these industries , he has been doing it for 40 years and he says the future for motion power for road travel and heavy vehicles and construction will not be electric , but 80% synthetics, hydrogen etc and 20% electric .Its not just economics its maths , resources and deliverability .. Hydrogen can be universal but Batteries in the long run dont add up unless major breakthroughs are practicable and can be resourced ..and thats not on the horizon . __________________ MONSTERMAN

06-07-2022, 10:21 PM	#14
Saint aka ML Junior ah to be young Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,058	Major battery brakethrough is well on the horizon. 1st production car with semi solid state batteries is on sale in China. Full solid state in testing. It has 40% more storage capacity in same space and less then half the weight. So we talking 2.8t tesla would be around 2t and have 500 miles range. Solid state has less chemicals then liquid __________________ "I am Lucazade"