UK Monster Owners Club Forum » .: Technical :. » Mods & How To's » Spring has sprung!

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Old 27-09-2018, 11:13 PM   #31
Mossleymonster
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I mentioned earlier that I'd wanted to try 7.5 N/mm springs in my forks (as that's what the Öhlins use on the 1100S) but K-tech couldn't supply anything lighter than 8.5 N/mm.

Just on the off chance, I dropped Richard Adams at Maxton an email to see if he could offer anything. The standard spring length is 330 mm while Maxton's 7.5 N/mm are only 260 mm but Richard said that, if I sent them my forks, they would replace the internal spacer with one 70 mm longer so I could use their springs. I'm sure K-tech could have done the same modifications but, as they never mentioned it as an option and Maxton suggested it without being asked, I thought I'd go with them.

Maxton rang me twice before sending them back; first to confirm what I wanted and then to tell me what they had done, which included changing the shims in the damping adjusters to match the softer springs.

The turnaround time was a surprise - I sent them off on a Monday and they were back with me on the Friday of the same week.

Result
Just bouncing on them in the kitchen showed them to be much more supple with a nice smooth damping action on both compression and rebound.

Of course, the only real test is how they feel on the bike. Refitting the forks is straightforward enough, it's just a bit if a faff getting the height right and both forks exactly the same. I had wrapped tape around each leg right up against the bottom of the lower yoke before removing them but Maxton took it off - d'oh! 😖

There's a favourite route not far from me that takes in the B3035 and has a 200 yd stretch of washboard-like tarmac that really tests your suspension. On the standard springs the ride was awful. At 70 it actually gave me blurred vision. Even my Gilera Runner coped better and its suspension is little more than biro springs and Vaseline! 8.5N/mm springs and K-tech dampers were a huge improvement although you could still feel the bumps but the new 7.5 N/mm springs really absorb the bumps and give a much plusher ride while the revised damping keeps everything under control.

Some (reasonably) spirited cornering down a series of bumpy B-road bends revealed no pitching, wallowing or weaving, just a much smoother, controlled ride. The new springs also seem a much better match with the softer (105 N/mm) rear spring that I fitted earlier this year.

I was worried whether the softer springs would cope with heavy braking but some test emergency stops failed to bottom them out, even on bumpy roads, so no problems there.

I guess if you often take a pillion or regularly explore the upper 20% of the Evo's performance, then firmer springs might be better. But for me, the way I ride and the roads I ride, this set up works perfectly.

As chris.p observed some time ago http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=51391, (it was his thread that originally prompted me to upgrade the forks), it's definitely worth investing some time and money in improving the Evo's suspension as it really pays dividends in better handling and comfort.

So thanks to Richard for going the extra mile (or 70 mm to be precise!).
Ow Much? (That's Yorkshire)
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Old 27-09-2018, 11:42 PM   #32
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Revalve and custom spacers. £100
Springs. £80
Postage. £20
VAT. £40
Total. £240

...and worth every penny in my opinion!
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Old 28-09-2018, 09:11 AM   #33
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Very nice. I'm still tempted by softer springs, even though Teut said he wouldn't recommend it.I think you've made my mind up...
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Old 28-09-2018, 11:10 AM   #34
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Very nice. I'm still tempted by softer springs, even though Teut said he wouldn't recommend it.I think you've made my mind up...
It's a very personal thing and depends so much on how you ride and on what sort of roads but this set-up works for me. The good thing is, if you go too far in either direction, it's easy to restore (although not the money unfortunately!).

Softening your forks should be easier and cheaper than mine as there are Öhlins springs that will drop straight in (around £120) and you shouldn't need any other modifications. You probably won't even need to remove the forks.

Your problem will be deciding what springs to choose. I mentioned earlier that standard 1100S forks were 7.5 N/mm but you've had yours tested at 8.5 N/mm. There should be a part number on the end that will tell you what spring rate they are. Yours should be 04744-75.



The ones in this picture will be 10.5N/mm. I think you should check what you're current part number is before ordering any replacements.
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Old 28-09-2018, 11:25 AM   #35
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Richard is a top man
Agreed! Richard really knows his stuff and is really helpful.

Loving that lockwiring, Flip!
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Old 29-09-2018, 07:04 PM   #36
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Part 2.1

I removed the Öhlins shock the other day and, rather than have the bike off the road, I thought I'd refit the Sachs shock but try it with the spare Öhlins 115N/mm spring. I was interested to see, firstly, if it would fit and, secondly, if it improved the ride quality of the, frankly, very basic Sachs unit.

The first thing to do is to remove the old spring. Now, when I swapped springs on the Öhlins, it was very straightforward; there's sufficient thread on the preload adjuster to allow you to remove the spring collar without a spring compressor. Not so on the Sachs; even with the preload wound right down, the spring is still under compression and the collar won't budge. A quick tip: wind off the preload rings with the shock on the bike, they're very difficult to turn on a loose shock.

Fortunately, I bought some spring compressors for the Öhlins shock, (which I didn't actually need), so I was also keen to try them out. It's a bit tricky to get the compressors on the Sachs spring because, being progressively wound, the coils get closer together at the end and there's not much room to fit the hooks. You can see from the picture that I fitted them to the middle three coils and, after turning the compressors equally and alternately, there was enough clearance to slide out the collar.



Here are the Öhlins and Sachs springs side by side.



Fitting the Öhlins spring was easier simply because the coils are evenly spaced and there's plenty of room to attach the hooks.



The Öhlins spring fits the Sachs shock perfectly as you can see:



So, not too onerous to change; from start to finish, wheels back in the ground, 40 minutes.

I'll post again once I've had a chance to road test it and see if it has improved the Sachs shock.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:42 PM   #37
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Part 2.2

So that was interesting. I went for a short blast around some local lanes and I must say I was pleasantly surprised.

Now, bearing in mind that this is a 115 N/mm spring and my ideal is a softer 105 N/mm, the hybrid Sachs/Öhlins shock is a great improvement over the stock item. There's a lot less kicking off bumps and less crashing over potholes. It's not as good as the pukka Öhlins, (I'm pleased to say - otherwise I'd wasted my money on the DU737!), but this does suggest that the problem with the Sachs unit lies mainly with its progressive spring and that the damping itself isn't too bad. I'd say that the hybrid is closer to the Öhlins than to the stock shock.

So, for any 696/796/1100 owner looking for a cheap and quick suspension upgrade, a spring swap with a linear spring rate tailored to yourself, seems like a good move. A DU737 is around £550, while the spring alone is about £75 so you're getting, say, 60% of the Öhlins performance for 15% of the price.
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Old 19-10-2018, 04:01 PM   #38
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Spot the difference - part 2





I've replaced the Öhlins DU737 (adjustable rebound damping only) with this DU432, with the addition of adjustable compression damping on a remote reservoir. You may not have seen this model before, (unless you're Cobra88 of course ), as it's no longer available and it's actually an Öhlins Asia product originally designed for the Asia only Monster 795. (This was a hybrid 696/796 model with the 796 engine and 696 double-sided swinging arm.)



I only learned of its existence by chance when I was looking for details of Öhlins springs and this image popped up:



After much searching, I finally tracked down a NOS example in Italy. Although it's never been listed for the 1100 Evo, all 696/795/796/1100 models share the same stock shock, so I couldn't see any reason why it shouldn't just bolt on. Then, when I found out that Cobra88 was running one on his 1100, (thanks, Rick!), that made my mind up.

No problems fitting it and the billet reservoir holder using existing frame holes is a nice touch. The shock came with a 115 N/mm spring as standard but I knew from experience with the DU737 that I'd need a 105 N/mm. With the shock unmounted, it was just a 10 minute job to swap springs using the Sealey spring compressors I bought for the DU737 but didn't need. They are necessary for the DU432 because the position of the reservoir hose means you can't wind off enough preload to just slide out the spring collar. (I knew those spring compressors would come in handy eventually! )

The only downside is that, because of the reservoir hose, you have to mount the shock upside-down compared to the DU737, which means that access to the preload rings is quite restricted. However, once set up, I'm unlikely to adjust them again so I don't see it as a problem.

Is it better than the DU737? It should be. Will I be able to detect the difference? Probably not. So, why buy it? Well, it was a bit of a Mount Everest purchase - "Because it's there!". Anyway, how many of us can justify all the goodies we've bought for our Monsters??

Of course, what it also means is that there will shortly be an as new, second-hand, bargain DU737 on the market - watch the for sale section for more details!!

Incidentally, when I was asking around various UK Öhlins dealers for this model, Mark Hammond at MH Suspension in Chippenham said that he could upgrade my DU737 by adding a remote reservoir and the other necessary hardware, which was news to me. Although, in the event, that service wasn't needed, he also sourced me a lighter 105 N/mm spring to match the one I had in my DU737. He was very helpful when I was considering the conversion so, if anyone in the Wiltshire area needs their shock, (or forks), servicing or upgrading, or respringing/revalving etc., give him a call 01249 721001 www.mhracing.com
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Old 19-10-2018, 07:35 PM   #39
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Will I be able to detect the difference? Probably not. So, why buy it? Well, it was a bit of a Mount Everest purchase - "Because it's there!". Anyway, how many of us can justify all the goodies we've bought for our Monsters??
The thing that I find most valuable about such mods is that it enables you to experiment with different settings which, in turn (and this is the important bit) leads to a fuller understanding of the "on the road" effects of the new adjustments available.
Thus you will be able to sit and ponder the effects of say, a little less comp damping, and then try that out on the road and see how it feels.
The end result will be a deeper understanding of the way your machine works, which can only be a good thing. Irrespective of whether the adjustments that you make have the desired effect, or even any noticeable effect at all, the learning process will still be valuable.
In recent years I have played around with the front and rear ride heights and also with front/rear weight distribution (via lower bars, rearsets, seat height etc). The bike handles a lot better now but the thing that I find most valuable is that I now have a much deeper understanding of how these factors affect the overall ride.
Similarly, when I fitted the lightweight wheels. Ok, I already knew what to expect, but the actual experiencing of it was still something of a revelation in terms of just how big an effect the reduced gyro forces actually made on the road.
As a result of this experimentation, I now feel that I know my machine a lot better and therefore it must follow that the way in which we blend together as one homogeneous unit as we fly down the road is enhanced.
Know your machine ... as my centre-lathe tutor once said.
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:54 PM   #40
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@Luddite is a very naughty boy.

A couple of weeks ago, on a fine day I needed a ride out. Chose to visit Maxton, (Luddite again) Symptoms explained solution agreed. Job done. Today, got a pair of Michelin Road 5's from Bike tyres Leeds (inc free xmas jumper)

The difference is night and day. It's a shame I couldn't take a picture of the rear tyre coming off...

I shall elucidate later. Get logged out before the typing is finished.
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Old 13-11-2018, 12:36 AM   #41
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I shall elucidate later.
Intriguing! Nice to see you're still improving the Monster even after the arrival of the Diavel.
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