V4 Gale

What are the thoughts on the V4 Gale thats been spyed by the press?

[utopia]

Haven't had a detailed look myself, but ....

It is perhaps good for world superbikes but in my opinion the extra complexity (and the extra power for that matter) is unnecessary in a road bike.
The Panigale on the other hand is a masterpiece of development of the 90deg v-twin.
If the Pani is discontinued I believe it will become an all time classic and although I would seldom use it I'm tempted to buy one if they're going to disappear from production.

[buzzbomb]

Jeff the last production run has just turned out what they say is the final addition pani which goes public next week I believe and from what I've been told it's a cracker, and more importantly a keeper...

[utopia]

Right then.
I'm not really one for having a stable of bikes, or an investment bike, or a display bike, but ....
I'm starting to save up.

Tbh I fancy a used 899 rather than the latest, most powerful incarnation.
I might need a new (fourth !!) shed too.

[Saint aka ML]

Looking at how many panigale are out there if it ever going to e classic its gona take milenia.

[utopia]

Nah .. you're confusing rarity with classic design .. two different things.

On another tack .. it seems a shame that Ducati are moving away from the classic, magical, 90deg v-twin design in order to continue to be competitive in world superbikes.
Since the ethos of superbike racing is that is a road bike based formula, I think it is sad that Ducati have had to do it the other way around and start changing their design DNA to produce primarily a race focussed bike in roadgoing clothes.
I would rather have seen the superbike regs changed to allow the twins to continue to be competitive.
Ok, some might say that its progress and it has to be that way, but there are many different ways to progress .. it doesn't always have to involve greater technical complexity.
In my view, it adds little if anything to the road package, in fact it loses in terms of ease of owner maintenance and/or dealer servicing costs.
Fortunately, I don't see Ducati discontinuing the twins and moving over entirely to 4 cyl production, so the twins will not be gradually phased out ... fingers crossed.

[Jez900ie]

Originally Posted by utopia

Nah .. you're confusing rarity with classic design .. two different things.
Fortunately, I don't see Ducati discontinuing the twins and moving over entirely to 4 cyl production, so the twins will not be gradually phased out ... fingers crossed.

Its much more likely that they will drop racing imo.

[Dirty]

Love it, love the thought of it, can't wait to see one in the flesh.

Originally Posted by utopia

On another tack .. it seems a shame that Ducati are moving away from the classic, magical, 90deg v-twin design in order to continue to be competitive in world superbikes.

Problem is 4 cyl is the best/fastest format for racing, IL4 prob the best option. Gone are the days of multiple bike types within the same formula. Over the years the development of race bikes has gotten it down to a fairly narrow band of what works. So much so that there is now very little difference in performance between MotoGP, WSB and the bike you can ride out of the showroom on! I wouldn't worry about Ducati forgetting their roots though. BMW built a (stunning) IL4 but still produce their comparatively less powerful and efficient boxers.

[utopia]

That's my point really.
4 cyls in whatever configuration is probably best for racing.
... but this is a road-bike-based, race series.

[Dirty]

Yep, and if the road bike you currently build ain't fast enough..............

[utopia]

...... redesign your road bike to be more like a race bike, with the same, standardised, winning formula that everyone else uses ......???
Thus, overlooking the benefits of other designs for road use, you essentially build race bike.

A consequence of everyone using the same, race winning formula is that other engine designs become starved of race development, and so the favoured design becomes even more entrenched.
So you no longer get the kind of development work that created the Panigale.

[Dirty]

But that's the very nature of the progress of technology. There is nothing stopping anyone building road bikes that don't relate to the track and many still do. But if you want to be competitive in wsb or bsb then 4 is the way. Remember the Panigale has a cc advantage and there are numerous other formulas in which twins etc race. The time has sadly come in which they can't cut it anymore without 'help'.

[utopia]

Originally Posted by Dirty

...... if you want to be competitive in wsb or bsb then 4 is the way.

Yes it is ... if you accept that these are race focussed series rather than road focussed ones.
But I thought that MotoGP was the series where that applied.
Wsb and bsb have always been about racing modified road bikes.
I think there is value in maintaining a road bike design orientation, otherwise wsb/bsb will just turn into a "production motogp" .... and all of our top line roadbikes will eventually subscribe to the same, boring 4cyl formula.

"Progress" can (and should) take many directions.

There are loads of different formulae for classifying race bikes, and straightforward displacement is not necessarily the best one .. as proven by the two strokes and confused by the rotaries.
I guess fuel consumption is probably one of the fairest .. ie how efficiently can you convert x amount of energy into going fast over a given race distance .. but its difficult to administer.
A booming twin might score heavily there though, even in this world of "progess".
I don't think Ducati have been unfairly "helped" with the capacity rulings .. its just been a levelling of the playing field to allow some variety and to thereby produce such awesome kit as the Panigale, instead of just another Yamsukondasaki to the "winning formula", painted red.