Safety circuit/side stand ,clutch and neutral switches

19-01-2014, 10:15 AM

Having just got Scrapps ex monster,I see a potential "stuck by the roadside" the switches that stop you ,starting the bike in gear with the clutch out and setting off with the stand down.So how are they wired in ? what do I have to link out to get it going again when one of these switches fails. Can I simple connect the wires across the switch or have the makers employed some more devious ant tamper measure ?

Darren69 · 19-01-2014, 11:12 AM

Hi Keith, I have one of these fitted to my S4 and was easy to fit and works a treat. Can start and run the bike with the stand down, but cut out will still work if you put it in gear with the stand down. There may also be some other similar kits out there that do a similar thing.

https://tpoparts.com/cat093/index.ph...&product_id=97

Dirty · 19-01-2014, 12:24 PM

I think Utopia did a mod that involved a 60p resistor and a bit of wire. Can't find the thread now though.

Saint aka ML · 19-01-2014, 12:40 PM

Why would you get stuck?

- On older bike stand down = no start
- On medium bikes stand down but in neutral = however bike starts if neutral failes just lift the stand up. It will start and get you there
- On new-er bikes as on medium bikes but they also added clutch pulled in option is an extra. You can start bike with stand down in neutral and clutch out or stand down, in gear and clutch in.

Nickj · 19-01-2014, 12:44 PM

I think it was a diode rather than resistor, I'm sure he'll stick the link up later

Dirty · 19-01-2014, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint aka ML

Why would you get stuck?

Switches/wires/connections fail. The more uneccessary 'stuff' added to a machine the higher the likelihood of failure. If it doesn't make it go, stop, turn and can stop it from going, stopping or turning, get rid! It's health and safety gone mad I tell you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickj

I think it was a diode rather than resistor, I'm sure he'll stick the link up later

I think you are correct. It's all dark magic to me though

Saint aka ML · 19-01-2014, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty

Switches/wires/connections fail. The more uneccessary 'stuff' added to a machine the higher the likelihood of failure. If it doesn't make it go, stop, turn and can stop it from going, stopping or turning, get rid! It's health and safety gone mad I tell you

I think you are correct. It's all dark magic to me though

Dirty side stand switch opens the circuit when it is down (no connection) so if switch on it brakes it will think side stand is always up.

If it were to brake making it think it is down you just need a piece of metal shorting the connector on loom together.

The latest models had a clutch switch added just in case side stand one fails again it is a simple one piece of metal to short it.

No diods, relays or magic.

Darren69 · 19-01-2014, 02:19 PM

I just wanted to be able to start and warm the bike up without being sat on it, which the TPO kit allows you to do but it doesn't remove the neutral light from the circuit so I can't drive off with the stand down, which I have done only a couple of times before on other bikes so I'm glad of that feature as it makes the first left hand turn you do interesting

Dirty · 19-01-2014, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint aka ML

Dirty side stand switch opens the circuit when it is down (no connection) so if switch on it brakes it will think side stand is always up.

If it were to brake making it think it is down you just need a piece of metal shorting the connector on loom together.

The latest models had a clutch switch added just in case side stand one fails again it is a simple one piece of metal to short it.

No diods, relays or magic.

Yes, I know how the switch works. If it breaks and you can't start your bike and you are not in your garage...... Sod it, remove the bloody thing and it won't happen, is, I think, the gist of it.

And all electricity is magic!

Saint aka ML · 19-01-2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren69

I just wanted to be able to start and warm the bike up without being sat on it, which the TPO kit allows you to do but it doesn't remove the neutral light from the circuit so I can't drive off with the stand down, which I have done only a couple of times before on other bikes so I'm glad of that feature as it makes the first left hand turn you do interesting

Well one of my bikes does not allow you to ride off with side stand down ..... one does so guess how I feel

19-01-2014, 03:54 PM

O.K. got that, so it's simply a circuit,no feed back to ecu to confirm its working,I can simply bridge it out. Can I bridge out the clutch switch ?
I know "not safe" but I grew up on bikes that didn't even have brakes that were worth a sh*t over 30mph, 1952 sprung hub Thunderbird, so I'm really not that concerned about leaving my side stand down.

Dirty · 19-01-2014, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumnagorrach

O.K. got that, so it's simply a circuit,no feed back to ecu to confirm its working,I can simply bridge it out. Can I bridge out the clutch switch ?
I know "not safe" but I grew up on bikes that didn't even have brakes that were worth a sh*t over 30mph, 1952 sprung hub Thunderbird, so I'm really not that concerned about leaving my side stand down.

The very first mod I did to mine was unplug the switch and bridge the connection. Have since tidied it up a bit by completely removing the switch. I have, on occasion ridden off with the side stand down. I'd like to say the first time it happens you learn your lesson but that won't explain the 2nd and 3rd time

So far no catastrophe though.

I didn't even know there was a clutch switch but if my memory serves Utopia's 'magic' mod did something with that. I believe it's all connected. It could be that bridging the stand switch will solve the whole lot, but 'magic' is not my forte so I'm probably wrong.

utopia · 19-01-2014, 04:38 PM

On my M750 the std set-up is simply a microswitch on the sidestand which prevents starting when the stand is down, irrespective of gearbox or clutch. There is no microswitch on the clutch and no connection to the neutral switch.
You can disconnect the microswitch, then bypass it at the connector with a bit of wire roughly like a staple, to bridge the terminals. The connector has 3 terminals, but only two are connected so its obvious which to bridge.
The bike will then start with the stand down but again, irrespective of gearbox or clutch.
This means that you could ride off with the sidestand down, but worse you could start the bike when its on the sidestand and in gear, and no matter how good you think your memory is, there will come a day when you do just that.....I know from experience and the resultant dent in the tank remains as a reminder.
The TPO kit that Darren refers to avoids these problems, though I'm not exactly sure how it works.

On my bike I now have the sidestand microswitch reconnected but, as Dirty says, I have also wired a small diode between the neutral switch and the sidestand relay, which results in the bike now only being able to start when the sidestand is down if the gearbox is also in neutral.
One of these days I'll post proper details and pics of this mod, but in the meantime its here....

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...hlight=starter

...but its not my mod, I got it from another forum member "Xenocide".

Having said all that, I believe some monsters have alternative systems including such details as "suicide" flip-up sidestands and/or sidestand warning lights.
But the above mod came to me via a 900ie owner, so it may well apply to your bike also.

In short, to answer your question, yes you can bridge the sidestand microswitch to enable the bike to start in the event of some failure of the system.
If you also have a microswitch on the clutch, that's beyond my personal experience, but I would guess that the same applies.
I don't think there's any clever electronics in the system on the ie bikes, though I can't be certain as I've never owned one.

Saint aka ML · 19-01-2014, 05:45 PM

With time we progressed in 3 steps I described just do not know exact dates.

TPO mod does similar to what you described utopia. When neutral light is on it bypasses side stand switch all together. When Neutral is off it allows side stand switch to take control.

My 1993 m900 no starting with side stand down so I disconnected the circuit. Ride off with stand down about 1 time a month you just never learn hehe.

My old m750 was the same but I fitted TPO mod.

2002 900ssie I had was fitted with ducati system where I could start it on side stand as long as bike was in neutral. When neutral failed no starting with side down.

Old 996 from 1999 had a suicide stand, boy was that fun getting from it to m900 hehe

Current m695 has side stand switch and clutch switch all wired to neutral light.
When neutral on can start with side stand down.
Clutch switch overrides all other with clutch pulled in you can always start it but if stand is down and in hear the moment you release it nada.

10-12-2017, 06:25 PM

Can anyone tell me the value of the diode please? I presume it’s a 12V?
Cheers

19-01-2014, 10:15 AM	#1
Drumnagorrach Guest Posts: n/a	Safety circuit/side stand ,clutch and neutral switches Having just got Scrapps ex monster,I see a potential "stuck by the roadside" the switches that stop you ,starting the bike in gear with the clutch out and setting off with the stand down.So how are they wired in ? what do I have to link out to get it going again when one of these switches fails. Can I simple connect the wires across the switch or have the makers employed some more devious ant tamper measure ?

19-01-2014, 11:12 AM	#2
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,023	Hi Keith, I have one of these fitted to my S4 and was easy to fit and works a treat. Can start and run the bike with the stand down, but cut out will still work if you put it in gear with the stand down. There may also be some other similar kits out there that do a similar thing. https://tpoparts.com/cat093/index.ph...&product_id=97 __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

19-01-2014, 12:40 PM	#4
Saint aka ML Junior ah to be young Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,058	Why would you get stuck? - On older bike stand down = no start - On medium bikes stand down but in neutral = however bike starts if neutral failes just lift the stand up. It will start and get you there - On new-er bikes as on medium bikes but they also added clutch pulled in option is an extra. You can start bike with stand down in neutral and clutch out or stand down, in gear and clutch in. __________________ "I am Lucazade"

19-01-2014, 12:44 PM	#5
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,191	I think it was a diode rather than resistor, I'm sure he'll stick the link up later __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

19-01-2014, 02:19 PM	#8
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,023	I just wanted to be able to start and warm the bike up without being sat on it, which the TPO kit allows you to do but it doesn't remove the neutral light from the circuit so I can't drive off with the stand down, which I have done only a couple of times before on other bikes so I'm glad of that feature as it makes the first left hand turn you do interesting __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

19-01-2014, 12:24 PM	#3
Dirty Bockloks Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London Bike: No Bike Yet! Posts: 4,601	I think Utopia did a mod that involved a 60p resistor and a bit of wire. Can't find the thread now though.

19-01-2014, 03:54 PM	#11
Drumnagorrach Guest Posts: n/a	O.K. got that, so it's simply a circuit,no feed back to ecu to confirm its working,I can simply bridge it out. Can I bridge out the clutch switch ? I know "not safe" but I grew up on bikes that didn't even have brakes that were worth a sh*t over 30mph, 1952 sprung hub Thunderbird, so I'm really not that concerned about leaving my side stand down.

19-01-2014, 04:38 PM	#13
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	On my M750 the std set-up is simply a microswitch on the sidestand which prevents starting when the stand is down, irrespective of gearbox or clutch. There is no microswitch on the clutch and no connection to the neutral switch. You can disconnect the microswitch, then bypass it at the connector with a bit of wire roughly like a staple, to bridge the terminals. The connector has 3 terminals, but only two are connected so its obvious which to bridge. The bike will then start with the stand down but again, irrespective of gearbox or clutch. This means that you could ride off with the sidestand down, but worse you could start the bike when its on the sidestand and in gear, and no matter how good you think your memory is, there will come a day when you do just that.....I know from experience and the resultant dent in the tank remains as a reminder. The TPO kit that Darren refers to avoids these problems, though I'm not exactly sure how it works. On my bike I now have the sidestand microswitch reconnected but, as Dirty says, I have also wired a small diode between the neutral switch and the sidestand relay, which results in the bike now only being able to start when the sidestand is down if the gearbox is also in neutral. One of these days I'll post proper details and pics of this mod, but in the meantime its here.... http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...hlight=starter ...but its not my mod, I got it from another forum member "Xenocide". Having said all that, I believe some monsters have alternative systems including such details as "suicide" flip-up sidestands and/or sidestand warning lights. But the above mod came to me via a 900ie owner, so it may well apply to your bike also. In short, to answer your question, yes you can bridge the sidestand microswitch to enable the bike to start in the event of some failure of the system. If you also have a microswitch on the clutch, that's beyond my personal experience, but I would guess that the same applies. I don't think there's any clever electronics in the system on the ie bikes, though I can't be certain as I've never owned one.

19-01-2014, 05:45 PM	#14
Saint aka ML Junior ah to be young Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,058	With time we progressed in 3 steps I described just do not know exact dates. TPO mod does similar to what you described utopia. When neutral light is on it bypasses side stand switch all together. When Neutral is off it allows side stand switch to take control. My 1993 m900 no starting with side stand down so I disconnected the circuit. Ride off with stand down about 1 time a month you just never learn hehe. My old m750 was the same but I fitted TPO mod. 2002 900ssie I had was fitted with ducati system where I could start it on side stand as long as bike was in neutral. When neutral failed no starting with side down. Old 996 from 1999 had a suicide stand, boy was that fun getting from it to m900 hehe Current m695 has side stand switch and clutch switch all wired to neutral light. When neutral on can start with side stand down. Clutch switch overrides all other with clutch pulled in you can always start it but if stand is down and in hear the moment you release it nada. __________________ "I am Lucazade"

10-12-2017, 06:25 PM	#15
Miky Guest Posts: n/a	Can anyone tell me the value of the diode please? I presume it’s a 12V? Cheers