UK Monster Owners Club Forum .: Technical :. Cans, Tyres, Brakes, etc. » Looking for a rivet band for a Sil Motor oval carbon can.

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Old 21-02-2020, 08:49 PM   #1
utopia
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Looking for a rivet band for a Sil Motor oval carbon can.

Bit of a long shot but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Last year I rebuilt the pipework of a Sil Motor 2-1 exhaust system.
Now I'm looking to refurb the can.
Its a carbon oval and came to me in a damaged condition.
One of the rivet bands was missing and had been replaced with a jubilee clip.
The carbon sleeve itself was a little damaged too and I had originally intended to replace it but after a bit of a fiddle I've managed to dismantle the can without further damage to the sleeve, so I'm now intending to reuse it, albeit in a slightly shortened condition.
The upshot is that I need a single rivet band which matches the hole spacing on the Sil Motor end cap ... which is different to the hole spacing on Termis.
The only source that I have found thus far is Daniele Moto in Germany, but while their unit price is a very reasonable 8 euros or so for a single rivet band, they want to add on a flat rate shipping charge of over 30 euros, which I'm obviously reluctant to pay.
I suppose I could contact them and plead for a reduced postage charge but my German lingo isn't really up to that.
Another option might be to try to make one myself but working in 0.5mm thick stainless would be a bit tricky.

Does anyone know of an alternative, british based or english speaking supplier of Sil Motor spares ?
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Old 21-02-2020, 09:15 PM   #2
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Probably not the answer you wanted but can't you trim both ends of the sleeve and fit matching Termi bands for example? Sils are fairly popular so maybe you will find some.
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Old 21-02-2020, 11:12 PM   #3
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I didn't really want to drill another set of holes in the end caps.
I had done a quick eyeball comparison of my single Sil rivet band to the ones on my old Termi cans and determined that the hole spacing was different .. but by just enough to make it difficult to re-drill without the new holes clashing with the old ones.

However, thanks for spurring me out of my lackadaisical attitude and making me go and check that out more rigorously.
And so, following a quick fluster of my mother's old dressmaking tape, I know that ....
The six holes in the Termi bands look to be at 60mm spacing throughout.
The Sil band is slightly longer and for some reason its six holes are unequally spaced at 62, 67, 62, 67, 62mm.
In practice you could nearly enough line up a pair of holes at the centre or at either end, but the remaining four would either semi-overlap, leaving an oval hole for the new rivet ...or just be annoyingly close.

But at least I know, now.
And it begs the question .. what is the spacing on the bands on std Ducati cans ?
I no longer have mine to measure but I had assumed, for no sensible reason, that they were the same as the Termi ones.

Also, I'd rather not cut any more length off the can as it has already been shortened.
Originally I thought it had been cut down by quite a bit (it does look what you might call bordering on the semi-stubby) but having seen the innards, I'm not quite so sure now.
It turns out that the inlet and outlet bores are different sizes and the central perforated tube is tapered accordingly .. meaning that shortening is almost impossible because the endcaps would no longer fit.
So, maybe it's just had the original rivet holes trimmed off one end, losing just a centimetre or two on the length.
Anyway, if it was much shorter it would look like it had been stubbied "for style" .. and it's not quite that kind of bike.

It was quite noisy when I ran it last year, but I now know that was partly due to at least two thirds of the can having no wadding left in it at all.
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Old 22-02-2020, 05:43 AM   #4
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you could try these people
https://www.pipewerx.co.uk/webshop/-...ry=rivet+bands

or

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/Fuel-Exha...p2047675.l2563
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Old 22-02-2020, 06:18 AM   #5
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This place is Sil Motor agents in Germany and they have rivet bands.

https://www.daniele-moto.de/en/index...tml?isorc=1306

They look even spaced to my eyes though.
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Old 22-02-2020, 09:20 AM   #6
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There are plenty of firms making exhausts in the UK, (fuel, pipwerx, sp engineering, quill, Beowulf etc) it might be worth ringing around to se if any of them can help.
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Old 22-02-2020, 09:49 AM   #7
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12mm wide. 300mm long. 6 off 4.5mm holes @ 58mm cntrs.
One band is scuffed.

Could you fill the holes with epoxy and paint a black band round the can to cover the repairs, then fit the "new" rivet bands over the repair and re-drill?

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Old 22-02-2020, 09:57 AM   #8
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I cant see that shortening it by 10mm would make much difference to sound or appearance, so it would let you start again with a fresh set of holes.

Don’t forget that you need blind SS pop rivets.
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Old 22-02-2020, 10:13 AM   #9
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I should in theory also have some 4.5mm blind rivets.. It was only 20 years ago that I re-banded those cans.

Jeff the standard cans don't have rivet bands at all.

Edit... A deeper rummage did not produce any rivets, but I did discover two more bands, so I have two damaged and two not.
I also found the yellow, general relay from my first Monster, I mentioned putting it my pocket to nurse it along in a recent thread... How nostalgic..
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Old 22-02-2020, 10:47 AM   #10
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Darren ... yes I had spotted Daniele Moto but they are the German company that wants over 30 euros just for postage.
I might even have considered paying that but there is also the uncertainty that the bands are exactly the same as mine, until I have them in my hand.
If they differ, that's 40 euros wasted.

Mick and 350 ... yes, I had pondered contacting pipewerx or others to see if they had anything suitable.
I will probably do so but I wouldn't be all that hopeful that their own std bands would match the Sil, with its unequally spaced holes.
Worth a try though.
Maybe they have plain bands with no holes or slots, for use on odd cans ... but again, I wouldn't be holding my breath. And anyway, drilling new holes in such narrow, thin stainless wouldn't be particularly easy.

Gazza ... are they the bands off my old 750 cans ? ... edit .. ah, apparently not.
Its useful to know the 58mm spacing of the holes but sadly, that's still too close to avoid a clash with the existing rivet holes.
Or is it ? ... in a eureka moment it has occurred to me that I don't need to match any of the existing hole positions .. I could shift the band around by 30mm or so and then the new holes would be well away from the old ones.
Of course, it wouldn't look perfect in terms of symmetry but it would be sound mechanically.
I'll ponder that a bit more.

Darkness .. the central perforated tube is tapered, so cutting anything off either end changes its terminal diameter and then the endcaps wouldn't fit.
In fact one end has already been shortened by about that much and I have had to thin down the inner tube a little to restore the fit with the endcap. I'm not sure that there is any scope for further thinning without overly weakening the tube.

Thanks for your input, everyone.
Its all helpful, even if it doesn't actually provide an ideal solution to the problem, cos it can sometimes generate a new train of thought.
I'm still thinking that having a go at making my own strap might be the best course of action.
Well, either that or accepting that I need to pay the excessive postage cost to Daniele Moto and just suck it up.
Or even writing a pleading message to them in english asking for specially reduced postage rates and putting it through google translate perhaps .. hoping that subtle nuances don't get lost in translation.

Last edited by utopia; 22-02-2020 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 22-02-2020, 10:53 AM   #11
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Jeff I just edited my previous post. I've got four of those bands, of which two are undamaged. No not from your silencers, which are not banded. These are from some un-branded carbon cans I fitted to my first 750SS about 20 years ago.

I might be able to find time to run them over to you if the weather cheers up, and pick up the swinging arm. I also have another little tit bit for you.. Can you make our meet on March 8th? Either at Arbuckle's and/or at Ramsey, Cambs.
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Old 22-02-2020, 11:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gazza View Post
Jeff the standard cans don't have rivet bands at all.
That's interesting.
I had considered changing the carbon sleeve for a titanium one, which I deemed would be strong enough to be able to do without any rivet bands.
To that end,I did in fact buy a titanium sleeve but when it arrived it turned out to be slightly larger than the original carbon sleeve, meaning that it didn't fit the endcaps properly.
I toyed with the notion of fitting some sort of gasket strip to take up the difference but it all got too messy and I abandoned the plan.
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Old 22-02-2020, 11:07 AM   #13
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Yes, I had your march 8th meet penciled in already actually.
Might not have the bike ready but .. horrors .. I've actually bought a car recently, so I could come in that.
Well to be fair, its only really half a car .. one of those little citroen C1 things.
Perfect for someone who doesn't really want a car at all though.
And the same colour as the monster.
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Old 22-02-2020, 11:59 AM   #14
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Yeah! It'll be good to see you. Only a couple of weeks away now.
If the weather is foul, we'll probably just meet for breakfast at Arbuckle's and leave it at that. Otherwise we will either ride on to Ramsey after breakfast, or meet for breakfast at Ramsey.
We'll firm this up next weekend and post up.
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Old 22-02-2020, 04:19 PM   #15
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Undrilled straps here; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal...5/162015169244

A bit expensive for what they are though IMO.
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