UK Monster Owners Club Forum .: Technical :. Mods & How To's » Slow Monster rebuild

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Old 16-07-2019, 05:15 PM   #961
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You can use that same triangle of forces to consider a wall of death.
In that case the weight of the bike is vertically downward, but the cornering force is horizontal. The other force which stops the bike from dropping is friction, and that would be about 0.2 of the cornering force due to friction (Miu).
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Old 16-07-2019, 06:52 PM   #962
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I spent a long time today getting the tank top out of its mould. The LH side took about an hour but the RH side took, 6 chisels, 6 screwdrivers and 3 tyre levers and about 4 hours to separate it. The component itself is OK, certainly repairable with one side a lot better than the other which had some collateral chisel damage.


Over the previous couple of days I have put down a couple of laminations on the fly screen and also a CF sheet to be used for the dash board which will be bonded into the fly screen and bolted to the instruments. Each of the tank top, the CF sheet and the fly screen got another lamination today, running out of epoxy resin stopped further progress.

Unable to make further progress with the CF tasks I gave the seat what I thought would be its last rub down and a further coat of primer. In primer it is obvious that another rub down will be necessary.
I thought I would trial fit the hugger to the swinging arm, just a matter of drilling 5 x 6.5mm holes I thought. Oh no not at all. The original M900 hugger was made of a fairly flexible plastic and I used the old hugger to make the mould for my CF one. What I did not realise was that when removed from the swinging arm the perfectly flexible plastic relaxes. I made a pretty good copy of the hugger in its relaxed state. CF, whilst flexible, is amazingly rigid, the lugs on each side of the swinging arm were 25mm inboard of my CF hugger. That made finding the right place to drill the 4 holes a bit of a challenge. I eventually managed it although one side sits about 5mm higher than the other which I will have to rectify before it gets finally painted.
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Old 17-07-2019, 05:34 PM   #963
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Back to stuff I almost understand.
I took my CF sheet off the glass this morning which came out OK, just a couple of minor imperfections. I realised that 3 laminates will not be stiff enough to support the fly screen so another lamination was laid down.
Another lamination was also applied to the seat hump pad which when cured should be ready for cutting to shape. The pad and the seat will then have to be tailored to fit each other so a) the outside edge of the pad follows the same external contour as the seat hump, b) the raised part in the middle of the pad fits into the glove box hole and c) the slot is cut in the seat base to allow the pad to locate without compromising a) or b) above. The slot will have to be cut first.
Then I had a 3 hour struggle getting the fly screen out of its mould. The outer surface has about 3 places where repair will be necessary but worse the stiffer CF has not followed the mould very well so I shall have to grind out where it is not in contact with the outer skin and lay down a couple of fresh laminations. Once that is done I will have to fit the headlamp to the front fork yokes and then ascertain where to cut the hole in the front. This will be tricky because the headlamp bezel is due to protrude through the fly screen at the top but not at the bottom so the hole will be slightly elliptical and getting the height and the shape of the hole right could be problematic.
My ETTC is now down to 190 hours
Pictures will not upload today sorry
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Old 17-07-2019, 06:04 PM   #964
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Old 17-07-2019, 06:05 PM   #965
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Old 19-07-2019, 12:03 AM   #966
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I started today with a list of 12 things I wanted to complete. The first was to drill 2 x 8.5mm the holes in the instrument support so that it could be bolted to the bottom of the top yoke.
When I made the 6mm instrument support plate and bent it I had not finished the headlamp side support plates nor the plate that holds my rotating connector device. Inevitably they clashed and 2 hours later after much filing and fettling the plate was mounted. The original planned positioning did not and will not work so it had to be projected forward about 20mm, a benefit in that the instruments will move closer to my eye line, but a potential problem in that the top most mount to the fly-screen may have to be lost.



The second job obviously started an hour and a half late, this was to drill the headlamp side support plates to take the headlamp. Positioning of these two holes is fairly critical if the headlamp is to point in the right direction and have the cut off on dipped beam parallel with the ground. For me there is an added complication in that the headlamp bezel should partially protrude through the fly screen. The fly screen mould has an 8 inch headlamp sized flat surface on the front and the bottom edge of the fly screent should align with a line 10mm below the bottom of the lower fork yoke. So these two 8.5mm holes need to be positioned right in 3 axis.
From a first look it was evident that the headlamp is barely going to reach the fly screen so fore and aft positioning was Hobson’s choice, i.e. the holes have to be as far forward as they can go whilst still giving something for the headlamp flanged nut something to bite on.
As for up and down positioning there will be an ability to adjust the fit with the fly screen and I do not think it will matter if the screen itself is up or down by 10mm either way.
Given this circumstance the only thing to worry about was ensuring that the axis of the two bolts were parallel with the floor. I put some masking tape on the two plates and then played around with a spirit level and worked out the positioning of the two holes to be drilled and drilled them. All the while the frame was sitting on top of my home made blast cabinet, on the clear perspex lid to be precise. After I had drilled the holes I realised the perspex lid was about half a bubble on the spirit level out of horizontal. Bloody annoying, more haste less speed, I shall probably be able to massage the mounting to be square.


Next I cut out the seat hump pad and made it fit onto the seat base. Fettling it to get the raised portion to fit the aperture in the seat took about 2 hours. I just need to get the spring for the Dzuz fastener and countersunk pop rivet it to the seat base.


Next I removed all the blistered CF on the inside of the fly screen, tearing it off with my fingers until I reached the point where the lamination was properly adhered.
Finally I trimmed the tank top roughly and started to rub it down. I only managed about half the things I planned to do but progress nevertheless
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:20 AM   #967
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Back now from holidays in France, 4 days in Bordeaux then 9 days with my mate near Auch. It is great sitting on his balcony, enjoying his company, in 30 to 40 degrees C heat looking out on the snow-capped Pyrenees tinted purple with distance.
There is a thriving bike scene in Bordeaux with lots of younger riders, something you do not see so much in Britain. Chinese Suzuki cloned 125/250/400s singles with chunky tyres and brown leather seats are very popular over there.
I did manage to mess with a Gas Gas 300 enduro which has stood in my mate’s garage for 10 years unused, put there when it refused to start. Despite nearly a full day cleaning the carburettor and checking all the wiring it remained silent. Almost certainly the electronic control box has died/fried. Probably just as well as it is a bit of an animal, seat about 4 foot off the ground and a hair trigger throttle and low gearing, great for lifting the front wheel over logs but with my off road skill level I would probably end up on my back with the bike on top of me.
For the next few weeks I will have a big push to finish the carbon fibre work
a) the tank, (tidying the external finish of the tank top, trimming the edges of the top and bottom halves, cutting the filler hole and bonding in the inset for the filler cap, and then bonding in a “ledge” so that I have a “gasket face” to bond the lower half of the tank to, applying ethanol resistant resin to top and bottom halves and finally bonding them together),
b) the seat (making the fork mounting for the front to engage in the frame bridge, making pads either side to set the seat at the right height versus the frame tubes, making a mounting point for the rear spring catch and bonding in the underside) and
c) the fly-screen ( one more CF lamination, tidying up the external finish, cutting the hole for the headlamp and cutting and trimming the edges)
Better get on with it then.
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:41 PM   #968
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Last two days I spent tidying up the external finish of the tank and the fly-screen, laborious and dull work (and reading) – nothing photogenic.

I carefully trimmed the tank top to better match the base and considered further my idea of a ledge to act as a gasket face. This will not work as the mould for the ledge was taken from the bottom of the tank base and the top of the tank base does not match it sufficiently well. There is a lot of mileage/ hours yet in successfully marrying tank top to tank bottom.

I also cut the hole for the filler insert and dummy fitted it and realised that I had miscalculated on the insert’s depth or rather I applied additional laminations to the top surface rather than the bottom – it was too shallow so the filler arrangement would be about 4 to 6mm proud of the tank top. To alleviate this I laid down 4 reinforcing laminates on the inside of the tank top around the filler hole but I have no way of knowing whether this will be too little or too much until the resin sets and then it is too late as it will be virtually impossible to evenly sand down any excess. The aluminium filler arrangement complete with hole for the filler neck was installed in the insert which I must now to bond to the tank top . I think there are two chances at the end of this process of the filler cap being both a) flush with the tank top across its circumference and b) straight i.e. - slim and none.

Yesterday I spent a couple of hours pondering how to make the front fork retention arrangement for attachment of the front of the seat. The bridge on the frame under which the fork is due to locate is approximately level, the frame tubes behind the bridge rises at c 35 degrees and the bottom of the seat base rises in the opposite direction at c 20 degrees. My datum for measuring it is a piece of fresh air at the mid-point between the frame rails about 55mm below the bottom of the slightly variable height seat base about 45 mm behind the lower most rear edge of the bridge. I had 2 goes at making it in “Oasis” foam with the idea that I would just encapsulate it in CF but to get the section I would need I think the rear suspension rocker will impinge upon that space also my chain oiler reservoir is partially in the way.
I obviously want to make the mounting as light as possible (no point in making a CF seat if you are going to lumber it with a boat anchor for a mounting arrangement) so steel tube was initially rejected and aluminium plate 3 or 4mm thick considered. The point where the seat base is parallel to the underside of the bridge is about 175 to 200mm distant from the bridge so even aluminium plate will be quite heavy and quite a lot of leverage will be applied to the mounting bolts so I think I need more section than 4mm for it to be stiff enough to adequately retain the front of the seat, There will be pads resting on the frame rail (rubber) about where the main weight will be applied to the seat. I would also rather make it from one sheet with the fork tangs cut out so that both tangs engage at the same angle and any bending in the manufacture of the plate plate is common to both tangs.
I considered a plate with say 6 to 8mm folds on each side to provide the sectional stiffness but if the folds are present on either side the plate cannot be bent. If it is a straight folded sheet it will need to be at least 300mm long to marry with the seat base underside where it is parallel with the bridge and have sufficient depth of surface contact so that the attachment bolts spread the load – it would be too heavy and the 3 or 4 retaining bolts would be directly under my bum.

The best way to do it with the tools and skills I have (no aluminium welding) has exercised both brain cells for a good few hours and no clear resolution is in sight. But this is exactly why I love project bikes rather than bolting together somebody else’s idea of how to do it.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:54 PM   #969
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I thought today I would see if I could solve the seat attachment problem but about 15 mins in I realised that the tank would have to be finally positioned first so I was forced to do the job I was not looking forward to – making the tank top marry as closely as possible with the tank bottom. This took nearly all day and I itch all over as the only way to do it was to use a Dremel with a cutting disc and use the cutting disc as a file. lots and lots of finely powdered CF everywhere.
It was quite tricky as the previous couple of days of filling and rubbing down had obliterated the seams in the mould which I wanted to cut to. After about an hour I realised that the best way to proceed was to trim the tank bottom to fit the top rather than trying to trim both. I removed about half a millimetre at a time continually checking where the high spot was. As I got closer to a good fit I also realised that it was no good just cutting to a line one had to cut at an angle that matched the angle the tank top met the tank bottom. Eventually it was getting to be a real struggle to get the bottom out of the top to make those finer adjustments. Overall I am quite pleased with the day’s efforts. Not exactly a gas tight fit but hopefully good enough to contain thickened resin to ensure a bond.

Before packing up I prepared the tank filler cap insert ready for bonding in tomorrow. When that resin is cured the both halves will get a coating of ethanol resistant resin before I attempt to bond them together.


Two other issues emerged in my general buggering about, a) I think the petrol tap may clash with a washer I welded to the inside of the frame to hold the rear light wiring loom and b) more problematic the top yoke hits the tank some way before full lock is reached – easy solution adjust the lock stops (but I do want to be able to turn round in the road without 3 point turning) or, more drastic, adjust the tank top to accommodate.
I made the pattern for the tank top with the forks out so I deliberately did not allow the pattern to be further forward from the top frame tubes than the Monster tank, but I made the pattern higher than the Monster tank, forgetting that the angle of the steering head causes the top yoke on full lock to infringe the space above the frame rail. Bummer!!!
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Old 11-08-2019, 02:37 PM   #970
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Yesterday I bonded in the tank filler insert which was a bit hairy as I had to locate it from below and could only tell by feel whether it was in the right position. When I inverted the tank to check it was in the right position it fell out so I had to do it again. This morning I checked and it is reasonably central.
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Then I tried to make the seat mounting pads using foam and then encapsulating it with CF. The pads that rest on the frame can only be half thickness or they infringe the tool tray and I realised that the CF could not be continuous across the width of the seat as I would need an inside edge to glue the seat covering to.


Checking this morning this seat pad arrangement will need to be re-worked as the thickness of the CF encapsulation raised the seat too high vis-a-vis the frame. Also a half saddle pad that only sits on half the frame does not really work as there is a tendency for the pads to separate when load is applied from above. If I had thought about for a nano-second I would have realised this. A full saddle pad will mean some modification to the tool tray.
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Old 12-08-2019, 03:03 PM   #971
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Some while ago before I trimmed the scoops down to fit properly inside the frame I spent a couple of hours making 12 x 1mm aluminium plates to hold them. Yesterday, I thought I would bond them in place but since trimming them they no longer fit, I tried modifying them but the first one just looked like a modified non fitting part. They cannot be seen but they just looked horrible. As a replacement I came up with these,
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10mm sq cable clips with the masonry nail removed and the a 5mm hole drilled and the tail of the enclosure removed. They are super light, allow minor adjustment of the positioning of the scoops and with a small rectangle of bicycle inner tube glued to the scoop, vibration resistant. I wish they were available in black.
On a similar theme of time wasted in the past I have come to the conclusion that the seat base which I spent about 3 days elongating by 50mm would be better looking in profile and the hump would better serve its purpose if it was its original length. Additionally the interface with the rear of the tank particularly widthways should look less DIY.
I have been researching bonding agents for the tank as I think my home brewed resin with finely chopped CF could turn out to be a really messy during application. Positioning the tank base inside the top when dry takes about 20 minutes before I get the depth of the base within the top even all the way round, if the edges are all covered in gloopy resin I can see it going everywhere and taking lots more time to position. Unfortunately the stuff offered by Easy Composites specifically for structural bonding comes in a 50ml self mixing one hit syringe tube which cures in 10 minutes which in my application just will not work. I need an adhesive more viscous than Araldite, that will sit as a bead on a vertical surface without running away and that has a working time of about 40 minutes before it goes off. Obviously it needs to be impervious and petrol resistant (ideally ethanol resistant).
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Old 12-08-2019, 05:26 PM   #972
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Assuming you are using West Systems epoxy resin for your lay up? That is ethanol resistant anyway.
There are lots of products to adapt the base resin to many tasks. You can thicken it to a paste or even putty like consistency with flocked fibres or micro-balloons, there's an inert powder that can be used too, but damned if I can think of the name of it. It turns the resin a sort of greeny-grey. Your composite supplier should know all about these fillers.
You might even be able to make a sort of gasket, such that you experimented with before, using core mat instead of a filler admix, but that's going to be messy!... Do take photos though..
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Old 12-08-2019, 06:01 PM   #973
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Thanks mate - I will investigate the fillers - I need a putty like consistency to lay a 8 to 10 mm bead down about 6mm inside and below the bottom edge of the top surface. Hopefully I can then very carefully and gently insert the tank bottom with a smear of same on the outside edge and then clamp it up. I intend then to pour in some ethanol resistant tank sealer in 4 daily tranches allowing the tank to rest with one edge lowermost so that that edge becomes sealed as the sealant settles on my already cured putty and so on until the LH and RH and front and back are petrol tight. If I set the bottom of the tank about 4 mm below the lowest edge of the top I can then put a fillet of more putty over the joint from the outside without it showing from the sides/above. That is the plan anyway. I think pictures during the process are unlikely as my hands will be contaminated with putty.
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Old 12-08-2019, 06:14 PM   #974
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Round.../dp/B01ADMI8DA
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Old 13-08-2019, 05:08 AM   #975
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Thanks Slob I need the flatter ones for the width across the frame tube - now purchased
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