Boiling battery, spitting out acid?

FrankenDesmo · 29-08-2020, 06:31 PM

I suspect the battery on my bike is boiling - or something along those lines, as it tends to discharge a small amount of acid out the drain pipe after each ride. Today after particularly spirited ride bedding in brakes and enjoying a better state of carb tune, I also noticed a lot of splatters on the alternator cover - with the position of the drain hose it looks like that is where it came from. Oil lines etc don't appear to be leaking, and this seems to set like glue to the cover. There were already some streaks on it when I purchased the bike, wasn't sure what they were and they don't clean off (easily, anyway).

Tbh I've been waiting for an excuse to pull the pin on buying a motobatt anyway, but if the current battery is boiling, is that likely to mean there is something up with the charging circuit? I put a shindengen unit on earlier in the year as the old one was fried, but I thought these were better at protecting against over-charging? The battery is a cheap one so I wouldn't be surprised if it's just faulty/can't handle the load either.

Pic of the side cover to show what I mean - I tried wiping these splatters off but they've "set". The drain hose for the battery is the clear hose cabled tied to the oil line.

Mr Gazza · 29-08-2020, 07:05 PM

Unfortunately that does look like acid damage!
The breather should be longer and pas through the wire guide below it so it spits below the bike.
That said, it shouldn't be spitting acid. You could check the electrolyte levels to see if there's too much in there and adjust carefully with a syringe if needed.

You also probably need to check what the charging voltage is when you rev the engine above 4000rpm. It probably shouldn't exceed 14.5 volts, even that might be high. I'm sure someone will put a sensible figure to that?.. Please..

FrankenDesmo · 29-08-2020, 07:08 PM

I think having a motobatt, and thus, no breather is the way forward for me. I'll have to check the charging voltage again, from memory after I installed the new RR it was just above 13v, though I don't recall what rpm I measured that at.

Luckily (well, in a sense), that cover - along with the rest of the engine - is earmarked for for some form of blasting and re-painting when it comes time to rebuild. As it currently is, the whole engine is very shabby looking so the acid damage is just going to blend in

Mr Gazza · 29-08-2020, 07:16 PM

I certainly can't fault your choice of a Motobatt, mine's been on for 7 years with no problems whatsoever. It's never even been on a charger.

Good as they are they still won't like an overcharge. Best to check the charge voltage again before frying the new battery! 13V won't boil it, but it would be interesting to see if it rises with the revs.

Darren69 · 29-08-2020, 07:19 PM

Yea, anything much above 14-14.5V could cause that esp if your battery is already fully charged in which case it could spit acid. Fitting an AGM battery will not solve any overcharging issues you have and could do the same with the AGM battery which could potentially do worse damage.

FrankenDesmo · 29-08-2020, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

I certainly can't fault your choice of a Motobatt, mine's been on for 7 years with no problems whatsoever. It's never even been on a charger.

Good as they are they still won't like an overcharge. Best to check the charge voltage again before frying the new battery! 13V won't boil it, but it would be interesting to see if it rises with the revs.

My thoughts as well - I'm taking this excuse to change the battery, but it's not going on until I've verified the charging voltage

FrankenDesmo · 29-08-2020, 07:39 PM

Curiosity got the better of me and I've just nipped out to the shed to check - charging holds steady at 14.32-14.33v all the way from idle to as far as I was willing to rev at a standstill (well over 4k, anyway). Battery is then sitting at just under 13v immediately after being shut off.

I think the charging voltage is OK - any higher would start to become a problem, yes? (EDIT: googling suggests the accepted range is 13.5-14.5, so yeah that's a good healthy charge).

The battery brand is Atom, and looking at the listings on ebay, they are certainly, erm, budget oriented. The seller did tell me it was just a cheapie when I got the bike, to be fair.

Is it possible the abuse it suffered through not being charged at all by the RR, then potentially over-charged by a dodgy chinese RR - I had an issue with that where the ignition fuse would blow above a certain rpm (around 7.5k from memory) - then left to sit for a few months in a cold shed, then hooked up to a healthy RR has left this cheap battery in a state where it just isn't happy?

rollo22 · 29-08-2020, 08:58 PM

This might be helpful.
Kato's RR fault finding guide 3 phase alternator.
http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=46708

FrankenDesmo · 29-08-2020, 09:05 PM

I am very familiar with that guide :-)

There's no issue with the charging circuit here, just a bung battery by the looks. My wondering about how it got into that state is academic at this point.

Flip · 30-08-2020, 03:34 PM

Classic early Monster issue there really- there are not many bikes left without some form of 'acid scar' on either the frame or engine cases as a result of it.

Even when charging normally (which at around 14.5v is on the high side) when equipped with a fillable battery they tended to 'vent' while the bike was ridden and so if the tube wasn't long enough it simply left it's acid mist on whatever it was near.

If you are certain it is charging as it should I would definitely look over all the connections along the charging system- in particular those two yellow wires from the alternator (I am presuming it is a single phase system?) as they are somewhat undersized to carry 30Amps and so any corrosion on the connectors will cause them to heat up and burn.

I'm currently (no pun intended) in the process of up-grading all the charging circuit wires to more suitable 10AWG along with replacing the main 30A charge circuit fuse holder and fitting a genuine Shindengen regulator rectifier and a new Motobatt as the old one was beginning to struggle after almost nine years.

FrankenDesmo · 30-08-2020, 04:24 PM

I've got a very stable 14.3v, I'm considering that a healthy charge since it falls comfortably within the 13.5-14.5 range. None of the old connectors are in used from the stator -> RR -> battery. The wires coming from the stator are OK, no burning/melting, and they're crimped (securely) to the thicker wires provided in the kit for the shindengen, which also had new wires to run directly to the battery.

Sounds like what the battery is doing is more or less normal, and I'm just suffering from a short hose (I extended it this morning so that it's now pointing down under the engine). Ah well, I've got a motobatt on the way anyway.

Flip · 30-08-2020, 04:44 PM

I know the kits supply 'add-on' wires for those from the Alternator as that is the easiest way to get people to fit them and I'm sure plenty of people have done it that way without issue but that doesn't really get over the fact the wires are too small and ideally ought to be a larger cross section.

But think about it, I'm sure they wouldn't sell half as many kits if people had to remove the engine case and fit new wires to the Stator.

Here's a good read on the subject if you feel like it.

http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/tech/chargingfailure.php

FrankenDesmo · 30-08-2020, 04:52 PM

The problem is replacing those wires doesn't appear to be a simple task, and from my recollection of looking at the stator, no matter how close you get you're still going to have a tail of undersized wire before the beefier wire. I'm no auto electrician though, maybe it's not as hard as appears, or maybe a different stator with bigger or more easily replaced wires would be ideal.

29-08-2020, 06:31 PM	#1
FrankenDesmo Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Glasgow Bike: M900 Posts: 108	Boiling battery, spitting out acid? I suspect the battery on my bike is boiling - or something along those lines, as it tends to discharge a small amount of acid out the drain pipe after each ride. Today after particularly spirited ride bedding in brakes and enjoying a better state of carb tune, I also noticed a lot of splatters on the alternator cover - with the position of the drain hose it looks like that is where it came from. Oil lines etc don't appear to be leaking, and this seems to set like glue to the cover. There were already some streaks on it when I purchased the bike, wasn't sure what they were and they don't clean off (easily, anyway). Tbh I've been waiting for an excuse to pull the pin on buying a motobatt anyway, but if the current battery is boiling, is that likely to mean there is something up with the charging circuit? I put a shindengen unit on earlier in the year as the old one was fried, but I thought these were better at protecting against over-charging? The battery is a cheap one so I wouldn't be surprised if it's just faulty/can't handle the load either. Pic of the side cover to show what I mean - I tried wiping these splatters off but they've "set". The drain hose for the battery is the clear hose cabled tied to the oil line.

29-08-2020, 07:05 PM	#2
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,806	Unfortunately that does look like acid damage! The breather should be longer and pas through the wire guide below it so it spits below the bike. That said, it shouldn't be spitting acid. You could check the electrolyte levels to see if there's too much in there and adjust carefully with a syringe if needed. You also probably need to check what the charging voltage is when you rev the engine above 4000rpm. It probably shouldn't exceed 14.5 volts, even that might be high. I'm sure someone will put a sensible figure to that?.. Please.. __________________

29-08-2020, 07:16 PM	#4
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,806	I certainly can't fault your choice of a Motobatt, mine's been on for 7 years with no problems whatsoever. It's never even been on a charger. Good as they are they still won't like an overcharge. Best to check the charge voltage again before frying the new battery! 13V won't boil it, but it would be interesting to see if it rises with the revs. __________________

29-08-2020, 07:19 PM	#5
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	Yea, anything much above 14-14.5V could cause that esp if your battery is already fully charged in which case it could spit acid. Fitting an AGM battery will not solve any overcharging issues you have and could do the same with the AGM battery which could potentially do worse damage. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

29-08-2020, 07:39 PM	#7
FrankenDesmo Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Glasgow Bike: M900 Posts: 108	Curiosity got the better of me and I've just nipped out to the shed to check - charging holds steady at 14.32-14.33v all the way from idle to as far as I was willing to rev at a standstill (well over 4k, anyway). Battery is then sitting at just under 13v immediately after being shut off. I think the charging voltage is OK - any higher would start to become a problem, yes? (EDIT: googling suggests the accepted range is 13.5-14.5, so yeah that's a good healthy charge). The battery brand is Atom, and looking at the listings on ebay, they are certainly, erm, budget oriented. The seller did tell me it was just a cheapie when I got the bike, to be fair. Is it possible the abuse it suffered through not being charged at all by the RR, then potentially over-charged by a dodgy chinese RR - I had an issue with that where the ignition fuse would blow above a certain rpm (around 7.5k from memory) - then left to sit for a few months in a cold shed, then hooked up to a healthy RR has left this cheap battery in a state where it just isn't happy? Last edited by FrankenDesmo; 29-08-2020 at 07:49 PM..

29-08-2020, 07:08 PM	#3
FrankenDesmo Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Glasgow Bike: M900 Posts: 108	I think having a motobatt, and thus, no breather is the way forward for me. I'll have to check the charging voltage again, from memory after I installed the new RR it was just above 13v, though I don't recall what rpm I measured that at. Luckily (well, in a sense), that cover - along with the rest of the engine - is earmarked for for some form of blasting and re-painting when it comes time to rebuild. As it currently is, the whole engine is very shabby looking so the acid damage is just going to blend in

29-08-2020, 08:58 PM	#8
rollo22 Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Moreton-in-Marsh Bike: M1100evo Posts: 1,082	This might be helpful. Kato's RR fault finding guide 3 phase alternator. http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=46708 __________________ IF ALL ELSE FAILS READ THE INSTRUCTIONS

29-08-2020, 09:05 PM	#9
FrankenDesmo Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Glasgow Bike: M900 Posts: 108	I am very familiar with that guide :-) There's no issue with the charging circuit here, just a bung battery by the looks. My wondering about how it got into that state is academic at this point.

30-08-2020, 03:34 PM	#10
Flip Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Beachtown Bike: M900 Posts: 2,188	Classic early Monster issue there really- there are not many bikes left without some form of 'acid scar' on either the frame or engine cases as a result of it. Even when charging normally (which at around 14.5v is on the high side) when equipped with a fillable battery they tended to 'vent' while the bike was ridden and so if the tube wasn't long enough it simply left it's acid mist on whatever it was near. If you are certain it is charging as it should I would definitely look over all the connections along the charging system- in particular those two yellow wires from the alternator (I am presuming it is a single phase system?) as they are somewhat undersized to carry 30Amps and so any corrosion on the connectors will cause them to heat up and burn. I'm currently (no pun intended) in the process of up-grading all the charging circuit wires to more suitable 10AWG along with replacing the main 30A charge circuit fuse holder and fitting a genuine Shindengen regulator rectifier and a new Motobatt as the old one was beginning to struggle after almost nine years. __________________ You're perfect, yes, it's true- But without me you're only you!

30-08-2020, 04:24 PM	#11
FrankenDesmo Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Glasgow Bike: M900 Posts: 108	I've got a very stable 14.3v, I'm considering that a healthy charge since it falls comfortably within the 13.5-14.5 range. None of the old connectors are in used from the stator -> RR -> battery. The wires coming from the stator are OK, no burning/melting, and they're crimped (securely) to the thicker wires provided in the kit for the shindengen, which also had new wires to run directly to the battery. Sounds like what the battery is doing is more or less normal, and I'm just suffering from a short hose (I extended it this morning so that it's now pointing down under the engine). Ah well, I've got a motobatt on the way anyway.

30-08-2020, 04:44 PM	#12
Flip Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Beachtown Bike: M900 Posts: 2,188	I know the kits supply 'add-on' wires for those from the Alternator as that is the easiest way to get people to fit them and I'm sure plenty of people have done it that way without issue but that doesn't really get over the fact the wires are too small and ideally ought to be a larger cross section. But think about it, I'm sure they wouldn't sell half as many kits if people had to remove the engine case and fit new wires to the Stator. Here's a good read on the subject if you feel like it. http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/tech/chargingfailure.php __________________ You're perfect, yes, it's true- But without me you're only you!

30-08-2020, 04:52 PM	#13
FrankenDesmo Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Glasgow Bike: M900 Posts: 108	The problem is replacing those wires doesn't appear to be a simple task, and from my recollection of looking at the stator, no matter how close you get you're still going to have a tail of undersized wire before the beefier wire. I'm no auto electrician though, maybe it's not as hard as appears, or maybe a different stator with bigger or more easily replaced wires would be ideal.