UK Monster Owners Club Forum » .: Technical :. » Engines, Clutch, Gears » 1100 EVO Start Up Issue

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Old 11-06-2020, 10:56 AM   #16
Luddite
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Would you say that belt life is affected by long periods of not being used? My evo hasn't been ridden for 6 months, and only started periodically and run up to temp etc.
Well, the theory is that being left for long periods causes the belts to 'set' by taking the shape of the pulleys. In reality, that's probably true.

Consider brand new belts, they come in that cardboard sleeve, which squashes them together into a long oval shape with two tight curves at top and bottom (much like they are when installed). Who knows how long they've been in the pack but it could easily be a number of months.

When you take them out of the sleeve, they don't spring back into a perfect circle. While they open out a but, they still tend to retain an oval shape and you can tell where they were held by the cardboard sleeve. So it seems reasonable to assume that the same is true when they're left, unmoved, on the motor.

The question is, does this affect their strength or service life? Well, they start from new in a 'set' position and that doesn't seem to harm them. And my bike regularly spends five months over winter without being started and my last belts were four years old with no sign of wear.

So I'd say, from personal experience, that leaving the belts unused and unmoved has no appreciable effect on their useful life. I'm happy running them for four years with the caveat that regular condition checks are made to catch any early signs of wear.

The fact that the same 1100 Evo belts are used for five years on the Scrambler, has definitely influenced my decision.
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Old 12-06-2020, 05:09 PM   #17
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You are correct the manual does say every two, but apparently the belt composites are much better which I suspect is why later models are 5yrs.

Mine went 4years between changes and the belt looked and flexed like new on removal, but I had only covered 2k in four years as the bike sits in my lounge as art more than being on the road.

I'm comftable with their explained rational and happy to push the life expectancy, but you each need to do what your comfortable with or follow the advice within the owners manual
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Old 12-06-2020, 05:15 PM   #18
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I think the belts are degraded by constant stop/start heat changes more than being set in one position for long periods.

And believe it or not, if you have a fridge/freezer in your garage everything rubber perishes quicker.
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Old 12-06-2020, 07:37 PM   #19
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I've got two freezers in my bike shed... Please explain how they perish rubber.

I also gently heat it in the Winter months with an electric/oil radiator to keep the frost off the tender stuff in there and make it much more pleasant to work. I also believe this keeps condensation off metal too.
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:23 PM   #20
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A while ago I spent a few days in Germany with a well known car manufacturer on a training course. Winter/summer tyre storage was a topic covered as it's law to run different seasonal tyres in Germany, so storage is common practice.

Apparently the two main reasons incorrectly stored tyres degrade quickly are UV and ozone. So basically don't leave them in the sun, also having them stored near a fridge or freezer with a motor constantly running causes ozone. (Garage fridge/freezers were mentioned as examples to avoid).

Ozone accelerates the degradation of all sorts of rubber on your vehicle, tyres hoses and seals etc. Several of us thought it was a myth but they say not, and it was confirmed by a tyre manufacturer at the same event.
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:42 PM   #21
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It's very true that rubber being a natural product, degrades over time of course, the factors to affect that are debatable however. UV is one know factor, so maybe ozone could be another, who knows? When I checked the tyres on my 748 that's been in my dining room untouched and covered for most of 8 or so years, the tyres have definitely hardened and now feel like plastic! Can't really be UV since they've been covered so I think it is the age, maybe the american fridge freezer I have in open plan kitchen/dining room is to blame? But I think its just old age.
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Old 12-06-2020, 09:47 PM   #22
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Well I never knew electric motors created Ozone! Nor that it eats rubber.

But is Ozone heavier or lighter than air? If there is a layer of it in the high atmosphere then I suspect the latter, in which case surely all the Ozone in my shed will be on the ceiling?

Darren, how much natural rubber is in a tyre?
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Old 12-06-2020, 11:39 PM   #23
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Well I never knew electric motors created Ozone! Nor that it eats rubber.

But is Ozone heavier or lighter than air? If there is a layer of it in the high atmosphere then I suspect the latter, in which case surely all the Ozone in my shed will be on the ceiling?

Darren, how much natural rubber is in a tyre?
Brief chemistry lesson (yawn!)

Ozone (O³) is heavier than air with a molecular weight of 48 compared to oxygen's 32 and nitrogen at 28.

Low level ozone, (the stuff close to the ground), is mostly created from sunlight reacting with exhaust gases and other pollutants. It is also produced by electrical discharges such as during a lightning strike and, in the case of the fridge or anything else with an electric motor (unless brushless), by the sparking within the motor.

The high level ozone that protects us from UV light is created up there by a reaction between cosmic rays and the oxygen in the upper atmosphere. Its height and other factors such as centrifugal force and air currents means that, although it's heavier than air, it doesn't fall down to earth.

While ozone does attack rubber, causing damage in the form of cracking, it's not really a problem with modern tyres as the rubber compound now contains protection in the form of antiozonants (think antioxidants but for ozone) and/or waxes.

So I wouldn't bother dragging the chest freezer out of the garage just yet.
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Old 13-06-2020, 09:16 AM   #24
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Very informative. Love it
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Old 13-06-2020, 09:28 AM   #25
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Thank you for that Luddite, I found it most interesting and informative.

Firstly I am proud to be the possible owner of some antiozonants having just heard of them.

I also made the immediate connection with Lightning, the Ozone layer and Sprites.

Sprites are the relatively recently discovered phenomenon of powerful upward surges of energy above lightning bolts, that reach into the upper atmosphere. (google it and be amazed!) A pretty good delivery system for Ozone I thought?
I daresay I'm not the first person to think of it so I won't watch the letterbox for the Nobel Peace prize nomination just yet..
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Old 13-06-2020, 11:07 AM   #26
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Agreed about the fascination of sprites, Mr G. There was a good BBC Four documentary on a few years back about lightning, which you might find interesting. It's not on the iPlayer (or YouTube) at the moment, but I did find it here:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x643cvg

With your interest in planes, you might find the section about lightning strike tests on aircraft skins worth a look.
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Old 15-06-2020, 04:04 PM   #27
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Thanks for the information about the belts guys.

I guess the sensible thing to do is pop the covers and have a little look for any obvious signs of problems, then consider whether to have them done as part of its service (along with valve clearances etc).
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Old 10-09-2020, 09:35 PM   #28
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Bought a 2012 EVO with only 6000 miles, good service history. Had a 50 mile ride yesterday along a dual carriageway and stopped for 15 minutes. 3 or 4 attempts to start but wouldn’t tick over, 4th attempt and started but with a big puff of smoke. Carried on my 50 mile journey and all OK.

Is this normal, supplying dealer over filled with oil, crappy fuel or anything more sinister ?

Oh .... belts not changed for 28 months, only 1000 miles since last set, dealer ( not Ducati ) said every 5 years ?
I had the same problem with my Evo. After spending £700 on getting the starter sprang clutch replaced on dealer advice, the problem was still there. Further investigation revealed the cam position sensor was playing silly buggers. Relatively cheap at £180 if memory serves. I'm still raging about the starter clutch a year later.
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