Clutch Bleed

14-03-2018, 04:59 PM

I flushed through some fresh Dot 4 on the clutch on my M1100s. Bled at slave then master, no sign of a single air bubble. Bled the old fashioned way, pull lever in, crack open bleed nipple, close bleed nipple, let lever out. When I started it up and engaged 1st gear it went in with quite a clonk, much more than I remember, haven't ridden it for a couple of months. Left it and tried gain this weekend, bled again, no issues, no air bubbles, same clonk engaging gear.

I'd be grateful for any ideas on how I seem to have made the clutch worse just by flushing through new fluid.

Cheers

Albie · 14-03-2018, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyG

I flushed through some fresh Dot 4 on the clutch on my M1100s. Bled at slave then master, no sign of a single air bubble. Bled the old fashioned way, pull lever in, crack open bleed nipple, close bleed nipple, let lever out. When I started it up and engaged 1st gear it went in with quite a clonk, much more than I remember, haven't ridden it for a couple of months. Left it and tried gain this weekend, bled again, no issues, no air bubbles, same clonk engaging gear.

I'd be grateful for any ideas on how I seem to have made the clutch worse just by flushing through new fluid.

Cheers

Theres still air in there. I did my M900 clutch ok had issues with front brake but all done now. Had same the other day on my RD250. That I ended up as I had new lines and piston kit seals cracking the banjo but was surrounded with cloth and ok now.
Getting back to the 1100 question. Do you have pressure on the lever ie does it go hard when pumped..
If your getting that you can either continue with natural bleeding again or try cable tie the bar in over night after you got hardness /pressure. The bubbles will eventually come out. I have done this a few times to get a good firm brake or clutch.

14-03-2018, 06:09 PM

Hi Albie,

If I pump the lever it seems to build pressure, not hard like a brake but what I would expect from a clutch, and from the first pump it doesn't feel slack. I'll try bleeding again and the overnight cable tie trick, presume it doesn't damage the clutch doing that.

Bemused how I managed to introduce any air, it flushed through nicely with no issues and not a trace of a bubble. Second time I tried I wound the lever adjuster out to full reach as well in case that made any difference.

Luddite · 14-03-2018, 06:16 PM

I've just changed the fluids for both brake and clutch on my 1100 Evo but haven't had any problems. To be honest, my Evo engages first gear with a noticeable clunk and has done since day one.

Is there any actual noticeable drag - if you put it in gear with the engine off can you easily push it forward with the clutch disengaged?

I know your clutch is dry and mine's wet but I think the master and slave cylinders are the same. When you bled the system, did you just use the nipple on the slave cylinder or did you finish off with the nipple by the clutch lever itself? If you haven't already done so, try bleeding the system from the clutch lever and see if that makes any difference. The nipple is at the highest point and so is ideally placed to get rid of those last few stubborn bubbles.

14-03-2018, 06:35 PM

Hi Luddite,

I did bleed from the master at the lever as well, I bled slave first then master, though have since read on the internet to do it the other way around which doesn't make sense to me. I'l give it another thorough bleeding this weekend.

I have been riding another bike the last couple of months, but I'm sure the monster was never this clunky before.

Cheers

Luddite · 14-03-2018, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyG

Hi Luddite,

I did bleed from the master at the lever as well, I bled slave first then master, though have since read on the internet to do it the other way around which doesn't make sense to me.

I think the idea is that any air already in the system will be at the top by the clutch nipple. By bleeding that one first you avoid pushing the bubbles all the way down to the master cylinder. Everytime you release the clutch lever, those bubbles will then start to rise up the system again. If you pump too slowly, the bubbles may never reach the slave nipple.

When I do it, I use the master nipple first, then the slave and then, after a day, I'll do one more bleed at the clutch nipple.

Good luck!

Albie · 14-03-2018, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyG

Hi Albie,

If I pump the lever it seems to build pressure, not hard like a brake but what I would expect from a clutch, and from the first pump it doesn't feel slack. I'll try bleeding again and the overnight cable tie trick, presume it doesn't damage the clutch doing that.

Bemused how I managed to introduce any air, it flushed through nicely with no issues and not a trace of a bubble. Second time I tried I wound the lever adjuster out to full reach as well in case that made any difference.

Of course I was thinking brake then apologies. Saying that thought the clutch will feel operative. I would still leave a cable tied lever over night

Nickj · 14-03-2018, 07:41 PM

Clonks .... I'd check the chain tension and re-lube to add a bit of buffering/damping which will probably make the clonk a bit quieter

Albie · 14-03-2018, 08:56 PM

Clonks as in not disengaging clutch enough. That's exactly what happened when I fitted an Oberon slave to my 1100s. I did the handlebar trick always good after that

slob · 14-03-2018, 10:02 PM

how many miles on the clutch?

utopia · 15-03-2018, 08:31 AM

If the bike has been standing for a couple of months, could this just be the clutch sticking a little ?
Unless I have ridden mine within the last few hours, I always free off the clutch by pulling the lever, while in first gear, and rocking the bike to and fro until the clutch releases properly.
I then return to neutral and start the engine, after which it snicks into first with very little clunking.
Pulling the clutch lever doesn't forcibly separate the clutch plates, it merely takes off the spring pressure holding them in contact.

This doesn't explain why you should notice a worsening after changing the fluid though ... but maybe that's a red herring .....?

15-03-2018, 09:11 AM

Thanks all,

It clunks as in not disengaging enough. I will try freeing off the clutch as the bike hasn't been used for about 2 months, but it has been started a few times now as I have bled the system twice ad checked it afterwards with engine running.

Clutch has about 10,000 miles on it, but this literally happened after I flushed new fluid through. I could understand if I had drained the system for some reason and was doing a full bleed, but cannot see how I introduced any air with a simple flush, and as I say there are no bubbles whatsoever.

Chain has been adjusted, cleaned and lubed.

I will try the cable tie trick, and rebleed from master and slave on Sat and see what happens. I'm starting to doubt myself now, but I'm sure it was never this clunky before.

Cheers

utopia · 15-03-2018, 10:13 AM

Having the engine running will not necessarily allow the clutch to free off because it remains fully engaged until you select a gear.
Even if you pull the lever a few times while its running (in neutral) there is no resistance from the output side of the transmission so the clutch has nothing to free itself against.

My standard start-up ritual for any bike is to select first gear, pull the clutch, heave backwards on the bars until the clutch frees, return to neutral then press the starter.
Every bike I've had since the 70s has benefited from this technique. Without it they have all clunked.

Joshua Brew · 16-03-2018, 11:23 AM

Hi, i recently changed the fluid in my clutch system on my 1100 Evo, playing round in the garage last night as it happens and i was selecting 1st with the engine running and i noticed a bit of a clonk.
when you mention about the cable tie trick, do you just cable tie it fully engaged? i will try it too

16-03-2018, 11:35 AM

Hi,

Yes, cable tie the lever back to the handlebars, fully 'in' so to speak. Presumably, it doesn't weaken the clutch springs overnight.

14-03-2018, 04:59 PM	#1
TonyG Guest Posts: n/a	Clutch Bleed I flushed through some fresh Dot 4 on the clutch on my M1100s. Bled at slave then master, no sign of a single air bubble. Bled the old fashioned way, pull lever in, crack open bleed nipple, close bleed nipple, let lever out. When I started it up and engaged 1st gear it went in with quite a clonk, much more than I remember, haven't ridden it for a couple of months. Left it and tried gain this weekend, bled again, no issues, no air bubbles, same clonk engaging gear. I'd be grateful for any ideas on how I seem to have made the clutch worse just by flushing through new fluid. Cheers

14-03-2018, 07:41 PM	#8
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,189	Clonks .... I'd check the chain tension and re-lube to add a bit of buffering/damping which will probably make the clonk a bit quieter __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

14-03-2018, 08:56 PM	#9
Albie Fanactical volunteer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent Bike: M900 Posts: 9,030	Clonks as in not disengaging clutch enough. That's exactly what happened when I fitted an Oberon slave to my 1100s. I did the handlebar trick always good after that __________________ http://albies93m900.blogspot.co.uk/

14-03-2018, 06:09 PM	#3
TonyG Guest Posts: n/a	Hi Albie, If I pump the lever it seems to build pressure, not hard like a brake but what I would expect from a clutch, and from the first pump it doesn't feel slack. I'll try bleeding again and the overnight cable tie trick, presume it doesn't damage the clutch doing that. Bemused how I managed to introduce any air, it flushed through nicely with no issues and not a trace of a bubble. Second time I tried I wound the lever adjuster out to full reach as well in case that made any difference.

14-03-2018, 06:16 PM	#4
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	I've just changed the fluids for both brake and clutch on my 1100 Evo but haven't had any problems. To be honest, my Evo engages first gear with a noticeable clunk and has done since day one. Is there any actual noticeable drag - if you put it in gear with the engine off can you easily push it forward with the clutch disengaged? I know your clutch is dry and mine's wet but I think the master and slave cylinders are the same. When you bled the system, did you just use the nipple on the slave cylinder or did you finish off with the nipple by the clutch lever itself? If you haven't already done so, try bleeding the system from the clutch lever and see if that makes any difference. The nipple is at the highest point and so is ideally placed to get rid of those last few stubborn bubbles.

14-03-2018, 06:35 PM	#5
TonyG Guest Posts: n/a	Hi Luddite, I did bleed from the master at the lever as well, I bled slave first then master, though have since read on the internet to do it the other way around which doesn't make sense to me. I'l give it another thorough bleeding this weekend. I have been riding another bike the last couple of months, but I'm sure the monster was never this clunky before. Cheers

14-03-2018, 10:02 PM	#10
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	how many miles on the clutch?

15-03-2018, 08:31 AM	#11
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	If the bike has been standing for a couple of months, could this just be the clutch sticking a little ? Unless I have ridden mine within the last few hours, I always free off the clutch by pulling the lever, while in first gear, and rocking the bike to and fro until the clutch releases properly. I then return to neutral and start the engine, after which it snicks into first with very little clunking. Pulling the clutch lever doesn't forcibly separate the clutch plates, it merely takes off the spring pressure holding them in contact. This doesn't explain why you should notice a worsening after changing the fluid though ... but maybe that's a red herring .....?

15-03-2018, 09:11 AM	#12
TonyG Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks all, It clunks as in not disengaging enough. I will try freeing off the clutch as the bike hasn't been used for about 2 months, but it has been started a few times now as I have bled the system twice ad checked it afterwards with engine running. Clutch has about 10,000 miles on it, but this literally happened after I flushed new fluid through. I could understand if I had drained the system for some reason and was doing a full bleed, but cannot see how I introduced any air with a simple flush, and as I say there are no bubbles whatsoever. Chain has been adjusted, cleaned and lubed. I will try the cable tie trick, and rebleed from master and slave on Sat and see what happens. I'm starting to doubt myself now, but I'm sure it was never this clunky before. Cheers

15-03-2018, 10:13 AM	#13
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	Having the engine running will not necessarily allow the clutch to free off because it remains fully engaged until you select a gear. Even if you pull the lever a few times while its running (in neutral) there is no resistance from the output side of the transmission so the clutch has nothing to free itself against. My standard start-up ritual for any bike is to select first gear, pull the clutch, heave backwards on the bars until the clutch frees, return to neutral then press the starter. Every bike I've had since the 70s has benefited from this technique. Without it they have all clunked.

16-03-2018, 11:23 AM	#14
Joshua Brew Registered User Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Wrexham Bike: M1100evo Posts: 55	Hi, i recently changed the fluid in my clutch system on my 1100 Evo, playing round in the garage last night as it happens and i was selecting 1st with the engine running and i noticed a bit of a clonk. when you mention about the cable tie trick, do you just cable tie it fully engaged? i will try it too

16-03-2018, 11:35 AM	#15
TonyG Guest Posts: n/a	Hi, Yes, cable tie the lever back to the handlebars, fully 'in' so to speak. Presumably, it doesn't weaken the clutch springs overnight.