UK Monster Owners Club Forum » .: Technical :. » Mods & How To's » Repairing the low fuel warning light.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24-08-2021, 08:54 AM   #16
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
Mark 3! I have completed a working version of a replacement low fuel sensor.

A couple of caveats: I dont have my tank at present so it has only been bench tested and I need to check there is sufficient height when installed for the shroud.

***Now Superceeded** Detailed build document Removed

High resolution photos HERE



__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.

Last edited by PPuxley; 11-09-2021 at 06:11 PM..
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2021, 10:54 PM   #17
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
Back to the drawing board! I have been running a test with the new optical sensor leaving it immersed in fuel. For the first few days , no problem, but on todays inspection the fuel had clouded the polycarbonate lens, rendering its function useless for internally refracting the light.
There is probably a solution and that is a sensor with a polysulphone lens which is OK for fuel. The problem is the sensor is £30 instead of £7, which starts to make it unviable.
I will probably try it though.

__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.

Last edited by PPuxley; 01-09-2021 at 09:51 AM..
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2021, 09:42 AM   #18
hh93
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Lincoln
Bike: M620ie
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by PPuxley View Post
The problem is the sensor is £30 instead of £7, which starts to make it unviable.
I think a new OEM is £120 so there's still some wiggle room
__________________
Doris '03 620 Dark
Horace 1980 onwards Harris Mag II
hh93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2021, 09:48 AM   #19
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
Agree, if you are making your own.
Not that I want to, but if you were making one for someone youd be asking at least £80 with all the other bits and bobs and a minimum 2 hours to make and I dont think thats enough under OEM for people to take a punt.
__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2021, 05:21 PM   #20
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
Well, here we are again....Mark 4. Ostensibly the same as Mk3 but with a polysulfone sensor tip, to see if we can overcome the issue of it resisting petrol, which is a bit important for a fuel sensor?

This time I also stopped trying to mess around utilising the existing wiring through the sensor and drilled right through the epoxy potting in the base and rewired it from scratch, re-epoxying it afterwards. The insides are completely sealed from the fuel, so that only the tip gets immersed in petrol

This has been working fully wired up to the bike but not as yet immersed in fuel inside the tank.

Next I need again to subject it to a few days soaking in fuel to see whether we now have a viable alternative to the OEM one.
The new sensor is about £24 delivered, so I think parts costs are now about £40.



__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2021, 05:08 PM   #21
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
A quick demo of the low fuel warning sensor working. This is set with no delay. I think about a 15 second delay will stop false readings due to sloshing and give the sensor tip time to dry of drips which can trigger intermittent positives.
But actually there is nothing to stop the delay being set to a minute which is around what the OEM thermistor device took to respond
In use it will have a shroud which will also stop sloshing and splashing setting it off.

SENSOR DEMO
__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2021, 04:39 PM   #22
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
Sensor is still working 3 or 4 days into its immersion in fuel test. So im happy that it will be going into my working tank.

I bought an extra relay and 12v-5v converters so I have made up another module, which is available at cost of parts (£15 plus postage) if anyone wanted to have a go themselves. Or I can buy in another sensor and make a whole one up at cost for £40 to a provided OEM sender unit. That would be plug and play.





__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2021, 05:54 PM   #23
Mr Gazza
Lord of the Rings
 
Mr Gazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Norwich
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 5,766
That's an absolutely brilliant piece of work from start to finish Patrick. Well done.

You're going to save Monster owners a fortune, so you deserve to make something out of it.
If you read my latest post on headlamp adapters you might gather that I've had some unfortunate experiences outside the club with word getting out that there is a cheaper alternative to the extortionate US adapters. I have now limited availability of these to club members only, My advice to you would be to do the same with your superb sender re-con unless you're charging a viable rate to make the grief worthwhile.

By the way I assume this will work with the ie model senders which have the power supply cables for the internal fuel pump going through the sender body. They work with a thermistor much the same as the carbie ones.
__________________
Mr Gazza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2021, 06:21 PM   #24
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gazza View Post
That's an absolutely brilliant piece of work from start to finish Patrick. Well done.

You're going to save Monster owners a fortune, so you deserve to make something out of it.
If you read my latest post on headlamp adapters you might gather that I've had some unfortunate experiences outside the club with word getting out that there is a cheaper alternative to the extortionate US adapters. I have now limited availability of these to club members only, My advice to you would be to do the same with your superb sender re-con unless you're charging a viable rate to make the grief worthwhile.

By the way I assume this will work with the ie model senders which have the power supply cables for the internal fuel pump going through the sender body. They work with a thermistor much the same as the carbie ones.
Thanks. I wasnt really intending to start production, what I have written about above is simply that I had ordered a couple of the relay boards so had one spare which I have made up and those costs above are purely parts costs (probably under, in fact).
I did read your headlamp post, and you are right about having to charge a decent amount to cover the ag.
And I think thats where my sender falls down. Theres around £40 or £50 in parts, so i I suppose I would have to charge £100, and thats just not enough of a discount on OEM to be attractive.
But if one's handy with a soldering iron it might be a DIY proposition.
There are other issues, too. Its not proven long term yet and I note the source of sensors at £25 from PiHut is limited, after that I can only see them at £35 and above.
The principle will work in the ie but Im not familiar enough to say how the installation would work. But more than happy to have a look at it if someone posts a diagram or photo.
__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2021, 06:34 PM   #25
Mr Gazza
Lord of the Rings
 
Mr Gazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Norwich
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 5,766
Fair dinkum, you're probably right not to venture into doing this for other folk. The self help route is generous enough as it is. A good tutorial will still save members a lot of expense and agro.
I do happen to have a failed ie one. I will try and get a photo, but that doesn't reveal the innards. the cables just disappear into it and that's that!
__________________
Mr Gazza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2021, 06:44 PM   #26
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gazza View Post
By the way I assume this will work with the ie model senders which have the power supply cables for the internal fuel pump going through the sender body. They work with a thermistor much the same as the carbie ones.
The answer is that, yes, it will work with the ie models. It may well be easier because it could be possible to pick up the wiring all on the inside of the sender wothout drilling out the cables. It looks like there is already an earth in there for the pump return.

Even if thats not possible it would only require renewing the pump cables while you were there.

__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.

Last edited by PPuxley; 13-09-2021 at 07:11 PM..
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2021, 09:42 PM   #27
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
Here is an updated " How to" reflecting the latest changes. Any previous versions are superceeded and should be ignored.

DUCATI FUEL SENSOR REPLACEMENT
Using an Optomax Digital Liquid Level Sensor (LLC200D3SH-LLPK1)
__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2021, 06:18 PM   #28
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gazza View Post
That's an absolutely brilliant piece of work from start to finish
By the way I assume this will work with the ie model senders which have the power supply cables for the internal fuel pump going through the sender body. They work with a thermistor much the same as the carbie ones.
Yes, it will work with an ie type with the pump wiring incorporated. Thanks to Davey who sent me an old one, which I was able to take apart.
The innards drill out easily, and if Id realised the whole end piece was removable before I cut it in half , it could almost certainly have been used as the shroud in the conversion.

Incidentally, if yours has failed simply because the wires have broken at the base , it is perfectly possible to drill out the first 8mm depth of epoxy to expose the solder terminals so that it could be rewired. I did that before I took it apart completely. Just drill with a 5mm drill to a depth of no more than 10mm in the centre and between each wire- 5 holes and it will more or less fall out leaving the terminals exposed.

If anyone is interested in a converted one of these for an ie- since I have it here, I will make one up at cost (£50), otherwise it will remain as a confirmation that it could work to anyone else who wants to try.



__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2021, 10:36 AM   #29
PPuxley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
I have been starting to road test the M900 and am purposely running it around the warning light threshold.

I can say the new fuel sensor certainly works as far as sensing the presence of fuel.

I have it set to a 6 second delay, (at the moment , just to see it triggering the light) but that is too short for normal use as I get false readings under braking or gently slowing down, which can easily exceed 6 seconds.

So it clearly needs a much longer delay period. And maybe the shroud should be limited to a single vent hole at the top (side) and two small drain holes at the base.
__________________
Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.
PPuxley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2021, 12:47 PM   #30
Luddite
Registered User
 
Luddite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southampton
Bike: M1100evo
Posts: 2,465
I think the OE thermistor-based sensor takes around 30-40 seconds of exposure before it triggers the light so maybe try, say, 20 seconds to accommodate any 'sloshing' and work from there.
Luddite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:23 AM.

vBulletin Skins by vBmode.com. Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.