Clutch creep

ChrisC2925 · 04-03-2017, 06:57 PM

Started to get a bit of clutch creep starting from cold, also at the same time the neutral light is on permanently is this a coincidence or is it linked?

Mr Gazza · 05-03-2017, 09:21 AM

I'll have a stab at your problem as no one else has.

I think this is oil related. Believe it or not oil can cause stiction between the plates, in much the same way as when you pick up the saucer with the cup if a little tea has spilt into the saucer.

If you're using the wrong type of oil or if it's overdue a change it could make the clutch drag.
Try pulling the clutch in when starting and also for a few seconds when warming up before attempting to select a gear.

It might also be possible that thick or dirty oil is preventing the neutral switch from working. It is a plunger switch, and I think it moves out into a groove to indicate neutral, so it should be forced mechanically back in to extinguish the light. In which case oil would not be the problem. However it could be if it works in the opposite sense. ie moves out to extinguish the light... Then oil could stick it in?.. Or it could just be unrelated as you say.

An oil change for the correct type MOTORCYCLE oil suitable for wet clutches might just cure all this.. The additives in car oils will sometimes make a wet clutch, slip.

Hope this will prompt someone to prove me wrong?

utopia · 05-03-2017, 10:40 AM

I wasn't sure exactly what you meant by "clutch creep".
I assumed you meant "drag", but are you saying that the actual bike "creeps" forward when in gear with the clutch lever pulled in ?
If so, that is serious drag.

If you just mean that you get a loud clunk from the gearbox when first selecting a gear from cold, try freeing the clutch off first.
Simply engage first gear before you start the motor then, sitting on board with the clutch pulled in, yank the bike backwards until the clutch frees and the bike rolls freely.
Reselect neutral and fire up.
I do this out of habit every time I start the bike, unless its only been stopped for a few minutes.

On the neutral switch .. it could be linked and is probably worth assuming that it is until proven otherwise.
I guess it could also be wear.
I'm not certain of my info here as I'm only repeating what I've heard but I believe there is a thin shim washer between the switch and the case, the thickness of which could obviously be altered to restore the correct stroke of the switch and compensate for wear .. or if not, perhaps you could fit one.
But I'd be inclined to assume a link between two simultaneously occurring faults in the same general area.

Wouldn't hurt to change/bleed the clutch fluid.

Darren69 · 05-03-2017, 10:56 AM

I'd try changing the clutch fluid and re-bleeding, if its dragging really badly. The only failure mode for the neutral light that I'm familiar with is 'no neutral light' which usually means the switch requires replacement.

So in your case it could just need adjustment. They're a complete PITA to remove and replace and failure especially on the early bikes was fairly common unfortunately so I wouldn't rule that out either.

Unplugging the switch to check if the light goes out, would at least rule out any electrical problems elsewhere in the circuit.

Flip · 05-03-2017, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren69

I'd try changing the clutch fluid and re-bleeding, if its dragging really badly. The only failure mode for the neutral light that I'm familiar with is 'no neutral light' which usually means the switch requires replacement.

So in your case it could just need adjustment. They're a complete PITA to remove and replace and failure especially on the early bikes was fairly common unfortunately so I wouldn't rule that out either.

Unplugging the switch to check if the light goes out, would at least rule out any electrical problems elsewhere in the circuit.

Although not a failure mode of the switch as such, it is possible the neutral light can stay on as it shimmed against the engine case and only re-shimming will set it up again correctly.

The original light on my 900 failed after about three years and the replacement has lasted seventeen- almost all of them with it on permanently as I have never bothered to go through taking it out again.

I should have re-shimmed it when I had the suspension out last year but forgot with everything else I was doing but it's never bothered me as it's easy to 'feel' when neutral is selected.

ChrisC2925 · 05-03-2017, 11:57 AM

Thanks for everyone's input, the bike is due a service shortly so hopefully the oil change might do the job. Having the neutral light on isn't a problem as it's pretty obvious when it is in gear. When started from cold the bike moves forward slightly and stalls unless you give the throttle a blip as you let the clutch out.

04-03-2017, 06:57 PM	#1
ChrisC2925 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ormskirk Bike: M600 Posts: 244	Clutch creep Started to get a bit of clutch creep starting from cold, also at the same time the neutral light is on permanently is this a coincidence or is it linked?

05-03-2017, 09:21 AM	#2
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,806	I'll have a stab at your problem as no one else has. I think this is oil related. Believe it or not oil can cause stiction between the plates, in much the same way as when you pick up the saucer with the cup if a little tea has spilt into the saucer. If you're using the wrong type of oil or if it's overdue a change it could make the clutch drag. Try pulling the clutch in when starting and also for a few seconds when warming up before attempting to select a gear. It might also be possible that thick or dirty oil is preventing the neutral switch from working. It is a plunger switch, and I think it moves out into a groove to indicate neutral, so it should be forced mechanically back in to extinguish the light. In which case oil would not be the problem. However it could be if it works in the opposite sense. ie moves out to extinguish the light... Then oil could stick it in?.. Or it could just be unrelated as you say. An oil change for the correct type MOTORCYCLE oil suitable for wet clutches might just cure all this.. The additives in car oils will sometimes make a wet clutch, slip. Hope this will prompt someone to prove me wrong? __________________ Last edited by Mr Gazza; 05-03-2017 at 09:24 AM..

05-03-2017, 10:56 AM	#4
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	I'd try changing the clutch fluid and re-bleeding, if its dragging really badly. The only failure mode for the neutral light that I'm familiar with is 'no neutral light' which usually means the switch requires replacement. So in your case it could just need adjustment. They're a complete PITA to remove and replace and failure especially on the early bikes was fairly common unfortunately so I wouldn't rule that out either. Unplugging the switch to check if the light goes out, would at least rule out any electrical problems elsewhere in the circuit. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

05-03-2017, 10:40 AM	#3
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	I wasn't sure exactly what you meant by "clutch creep". I assumed you meant "drag", but are you saying that the actual bike "creeps" forward when in gear with the clutch lever pulled in ? If so, that is serious drag. If you just mean that you get a loud clunk from the gearbox when first selecting a gear from cold, try freeing the clutch off first. Simply engage first gear before you start the motor then, sitting on board with the clutch pulled in, yank the bike backwards until the clutch frees and the bike rolls freely. Reselect neutral and fire up. I do this out of habit every time I start the bike, unless its only been stopped for a few minutes. On the neutral switch .. it could be linked and is probably worth assuming that it is until proven otherwise. I guess it could also be wear. I'm not certain of my info here as I'm only repeating what I've heard but I believe there is a thin shim washer between the switch and the case, the thickness of which could obviously be altered to restore the correct stroke of the switch and compensate for wear .. or if not, perhaps you could fit one. But I'd be inclined to assume a link between two simultaneously occurring faults in the same general area. Wouldn't hurt to change/bleed the clutch fluid.

05-03-2017, 11:57 AM	#6
ChrisC2925 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ormskirk Bike: M600 Posts: 244	Thanks for everyone's input, the bike is due a service shortly so hopefully the oil change might do the job. Having the neutral light on isn't a problem as it's pretty obvious when it is in gear. When started from cold the bike moves forward slightly and stalls unless you give the throttle a blip as you let the clutch out.