New Clutch for S4

alan s4 · 16-09-2020, 11:38 AM

Finally managed to sort out some dB killers for the high level Termis.......now that's sorted I didn't realise just how loud the clutch was though!!

Clutch itself is operating perfectly well, no slippage, finding neutral never an issue and all gears select smoothly. However when you see the indentations on the clutch tabs you can see where the noise is coming from. Couple of Q's:

1. Looking at either Ferodo or Newfren friction plates, both circa £60ish inc P+P. Any preference.

2. Hoping to get away with not changing the clutch basket.

3. Looking into the "quiet clutch" mod, is it simply a case of adding 2 x steel plates and removing 1 x friction from the stack.

slob · 16-09-2020, 11:58 AM

Make sure you get the right plates (dry not wet clutch) if you’re buying non-oem.
Measure a few steel plates before you buy, if you need both you may as well get a full set together.

That basket is £@*&ed !!

alan s4 · 16-09-2020, 12:24 PM

Don't say the basket is fecked! I'm not a clutch tart, I keep mine behind its cover and nobody will see it. Admittedly the tabs look proper buggered, the basket on the other hand is showing only mild patina. I'm sure the rusty springs will also give some on here palpitations

slob · 16-09-2020, 12:30 PM

there are matching notches in the basket, so the new plates will catch on them and the clutch won’t operate smoothly. you could dressthem
with a file but that will leave excessive play and your new parts will wear faster.
imho it’s a false economy not dealing with it.

alan s4 · 16-09-2020, 12:37 PM

Bloody clutch holding tool required then! Or could it be done with an impact gun (used once for my sprag clutch change earlier in the year so desperate to use again).

Luddite · 16-09-2020, 02:13 PM

With a strong impact gun you may be able to undo the clutch nut but you'd still need to lock it in order to torque it up properly.

What about making your own tool?

https://www.ducati.ms/threads/how-to...er-tool.23968/

If you've got a thick sheet of aluminium, something like this...@ 5:12.

Flip · 16-09-2020, 04:02 PM

If you really just want to change the plates then as Slob says the basket wear will need to be re-dressed and to do that properly you will need to take it out anyway so you might as well change it for a new one and be done with it.

How many miles has it done?

Mine had done 30k when I changed it but I did re-dress the basket and plate tangs a couple of times but if you were to go by the factory measurement for the basket to tang gap you'd be changing them every year- the friction material was still in spec though!

Comparison of old and new baskets:

I wouldn't use one of those 'bolt to the engine' holding tools though- there's quite a lot of force when both un-doing and re-torqueing and likely something will give and at best will result in skinned knuckles.

I bought a holding tool from a chap making and selling them on eBay- about £25 posted, combined with a cheapo impact gun still made it cheaper to do myself than putting into a shop- plus I got an impact gun and we all need new tools right?

alan s4 · 17-09-2020, 07:56 AM

Thanks guys, bike has done 24k Flip so not bad considering it looks like the original plates and basket. Looks like you opted for a steel basket? I'm not seeing a huge selection of steel available as mostly are aluminium. I'm going to stick with steel, did you go down the official ducati parts route??

Flip · 17-09-2020, 08:11 AM

Hi Alan, I swapped mine out at almost 30k, it would have easily done over but was (very) loud and I was about to go off round France at the time so thought it a good idea to get everything together before the trip.

You have a bit more power going through it on the S4 compared to my old 900 so I guess 24k isn’t too bad but a lot can depend on how and where you mostly ride.

I opted for genuine Ducati parts simply because I considered 30k was an acceptable mileage, I knew I wouldn’t have any stack height or fitting issues and the 10% Moto Rapido discount helped soften the outlay slightly.

slob · 17-09-2020, 08:26 AM

Clutch life also depends on your riding environment, if you regularly commute in a city it'll wear way faster than a bit of countryside scratching. By 2003 (M1000DS & S4R) Ducati was using lighter aluminium baskets, with a steel reinforcing band around them. I've found that the hard anodised (usually German made) baskets wear pretty well

Darren69 · 17-09-2020, 08:48 AM

+ 1 for Aluminium plates and basket, lighter and quieter. Seem to wear ok too but don't put steel friction plates in an aluminium basket that will wear the basket in no time.

Another option would be a 48T basket which I know some have gone for, that will give even longer life so maybe worth the extra outlay if you plan on doing large mileages. I plan to swap mine out for a 48T once the original 12T wears out. I need to check if it will work with my slipper hub though, but I think it should be ok

slob · 17-09-2020, 09:11 AM

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEU-Ducat...QAAOSwsO5b-TwE

Includes a holding tool of sorts (although it looks like ABS and I'm not sure how long that would take to break if you stick and impact gun on the centre nut, a full set of Newfren plates and new bolts to secure the basket to the primary gear, I'm sure most people wouldn't bother changing the bolts even though the factory manual says you should.
Shame the £ is so ****ed, everything in Euros has gone up over 10% since I last replaced a clutch.

Darren69 · 17-09-2020, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEU-Ducat...QAAOSwsO5b-TwE

Includes a holding tool of sorts (although it looks like ABS and I'm not sure how long that would take to break if you stick and impact gun on the centre nut, a full set of Newfren plates and new bolts to secure the basket to the primary gear, I'm sure most people wouldn't bother changing the bolts even though the factory manual says you should.
Shame the £ is so ****ed, everything in Euros has gone up over 10% since I last replaced a clutch.

Unless you need the plain plates it's probably cheaper to buy them seperately. IIRC I got some Newfren friction plates from a UK supplier for about £60 but that was a couple of years ago.

Darren69 · 17-09-2020, 09:45 AM

Doesn't say if these are the ally ones:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-Mo...4AAOSwjfdcASRS

Dukedesmo · 17-09-2020, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren69

Doesn't say if these are the ally ones:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-Mo...4AAOSwjfdcASRS

Look like ally to me, I think Newfren are all ally anyway?

I changed to ally clutches a few years ago and I don't think they wear much (if any) worse than steel but they do weigh a huge amount less.

Both my Ducatis have Newfren plates and they work fine.

16-09-2020, 11:38 AM	#1
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	New Clutch for S4 Finally managed to sort out some dB killers for the high level Termis.......now that's sorted I didn't realise just how loud the clutch was though!! Clutch itself is operating perfectly well, no slippage, finding neutral never an issue and all gears select smoothly. However when you see the indentations on the clutch tabs you can see where the noise is coming from. Couple of Q's: 1. Looking at either Ferodo or Newfren friction plates, both circa £60ish inc P+P. Any preference. 2. Hoping to get away with not changing the clutch basket. 3. Looking into the "quiet clutch" mod, is it simply a case of adding 2 x steel plates and removing 1 x friction from the stack.

16-09-2020, 04:02 PM	#7
Flip Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Beachtown Bike: M900 Posts: 2,188	If you really just want to change the plates then as Slob says the basket wear will need to be re-dressed and to do that properly you will need to take it out anyway so you might as well change it for a new one and be done with it. How many miles has it done? Mine had done 30k when I changed it but I did re-dress the basket and plate tangs a couple of times but if you were to go by the factory measurement for the basket to tang gap you'd be changing them every year- the friction material was still in spec though! Comparison of old and new baskets: I wouldn't use one of those 'bolt to the engine' holding tools though- there's quite a lot of force when both un-doing and re-torqueing and likely something will give and at best will result in skinned knuckles. I bought a holding tool from a chap making and selling them on eBay- about £25 posted, combined with a cheapo impact gun still made it cheaper to do myself than putting into a shop- plus I got an impact gun and we all need new tools right? __________________ You're perfect, yes, it's true- But without me you're only you! Last edited by Flip; 16-09-2020 at 04:04 PM..

17-09-2020, 08:11 AM	#9
Flip Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Beachtown Bike: M900 Posts: 2,188	Hi Alan, I swapped mine out at almost 30k, it would have easily done over but was (very) loud and I was about to go off round France at the time so thought it a good idea to get everything together before the trip. You have a bit more power going through it on the S4 compared to my old 900 so I guess 24k isn’t too bad but a lot can depend on how and where you mostly ride. I opted for genuine Ducati parts simply because I considered 30k was an acceptable mileage, I knew I wouldn’t have any stack height or fitting issues and the 10% Moto Rapido discount helped soften the outlay slightly. __________________ You're perfect, yes, it's true- But without me you're only you!

17-09-2020, 08:48 AM	#11
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	+ 1 for Aluminium plates and basket, lighter and quieter. Seem to wear ok too but don't put steel friction plates in an aluminium basket that will wear the basket in no time. Another option would be a 48T basket which I know some have gone for, that will give even longer life so maybe worth the extra outlay if you plan on doing large mileages. I plan to swap mine out for a 48T once the original 12T wears out. I need to check if it will work with my slipper hub though, but I think it should be ok __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

17-09-2020, 09:11 AM	#12
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEU-Ducat...QAAOSwsO5b-TwE Includes a holding tool of sorts (although it looks like ABS and I'm not sure how long that would take to break if you stick and impact gun on the centre nut, a full set of Newfren plates and new bolts to secure the basket to the primary gear, I'm sure most people wouldn't bother changing the bolts even though the factory manual says you should. Shame the £ is so ***ed, everything in Euros has gone up over 10% since I last replaced a clutch. Last edited by slob; 17-09-2020 at 09:18 AM..*

16-09-2020, 11:58 AM	#2
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	Make sure you get the right plates (dry not wet clutch) if you’re buying non-oem. Measure a few steel plates before you buy, if you need both you may as well get a full set together. That basket is £@*&ed !!

16-09-2020, 12:24 PM	#3
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	Don't say the basket is fecked! I'm not a clutch tart, I keep mine behind its cover and nobody will see it. Admittedly the tabs look proper buggered, the basket on the other hand is showing only mild patina. I'm sure the rusty springs will also give some on here palpitations

16-09-2020, 12:30 PM	#4
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	there are matching notches in the basket, so the new plates will catch on them and the clutch won’t operate smoothly. you could dressthem with a file but that will leave excessive play and your new parts will wear faster. imho it’s a false economy not dealing with it.

16-09-2020, 12:37 PM	#5
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	Bloody clutch holding tool required then! Or could it be done with an impact gun (used once for my sprag clutch change earlier in the year so desperate to use again).

16-09-2020, 02:13 PM	#6
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	With a strong impact gun you may be able to undo the clutch nut but you'd still need to lock it in order to torque it up properly. What about making your own tool? https://www.ducati.ms/threads/how-to...er-tool.23968/ If you've got a thick sheet of aluminium, something like this...@ 5:12.

17-09-2020, 07:56 AM	#8
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	Thanks guys, bike has done 24k Flip so not bad considering it looks like the original plates and basket. Looks like you opted for a steel basket? I'm not seeing a huge selection of steel available as mostly are aluminium. I'm going to stick with steel, did you go down the official ducati parts route??

17-09-2020, 08:26 AM	#10
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	Clutch life also depends on your riding environment, if you regularly commute in a city it'll wear way faster than a bit of countryside scratching. By 2003 (M1000DS & S4R) Ducati was using lighter aluminium baskets, with a steel reinforcing band around them. I've found that the hard anodised (usually German made) baskets wear pretty well

17-09-2020, 09:45 AM	#14
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	Doesn't say if these are the ally ones:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-Mo...4AAOSwjfdcASRS __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage