Lithium batteries, overcharging and fire.

[NewMon]

This is an excellent thread with some very knowledgable people and many 'googleable' terms for further research. So far, this is telling me that if I want to reduce the weight of my bikes, I should probably give up the pies rather than use a comparatively new and risky technology.

Yes the concept of a super-deluxe light weight battery on a bike with a 2 valve engine from circa 1970 seems a bit of an odd concept, however we all like to spend money on all kinds of 'upgrades'

I think I'll just go with a Motobatt on my Monster

[damien666]

Even my old dad has run a shorai for about 8 years on a 1978 silk
700s ( based on a scott 2 stroke) again no issues.

[utopia]

Thanks for all the replies (and pms).
There's some food for thought there but I'm afraid I haven't had any spare time to devote to this recently as I've been working flat out trying to finish the rebuild of my winter bike before too much salt gets chucked around.
I will pick up the thread again when time permits and post any findings or further thoughts.

I remain curious to know whether the newer bikes, eg Panigale, which are fitted with lithium batteries have any inbuilt circuitry which avoids high voltage charging in the event of a reg/rec failure.

[Kato]

The answer Jeff, is no they do not have any special circuitry, however they are fitted as std with a shindengen reg/rec

[utopia]

Thanks, Kato.
My current reg/rec is an electrex but I'm not sure whether its a mosfet or not.
Maybe I'll fit a Shindengen now.

[utopia]

Well, I've done nothing more on this since my last post but I did come across a bit more info on the subject.
This is in the form of a warning from Electrex that their reg/recs are not suitable for any type of lithium battery.
Here ....https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5ekhntoaf...Types.pdf?dl=0

This has got me fretting a bit again.
I think its time to swap to a Shindengen mosfet reg/rec.
I don't have time at the moment so it will have to wait 'til the winter now.

If anyone has any recent info on the most suitable currently available Shindengen unit (ie part no.) that might be handy .. I've seen a number of different part numbers quoted and might as well fit the most appropriate while I'm at it.

I guess the sort of system that I was driving at in my earlier posts is one which will detect an overcharge of 15v or more and immediately cut the battery charging circuit.
Obviously this could lead to a roadside breakdown as the battery subsequently discharges, but this should be flagged up by the charge light coming on in the normal way, which should be adequate warning.
Unfortunately my bike doesn't have a charge warning light.
If I do suss out a suitable cutout circuit/device I guess I'll need to fit a charge warning light too.
.......if.

[Dukedesmo]

Originally Posted by utopia

If I do suss out a suitable cutout circuit/device I guess I'll need to fit a charge warning light too.
.......if.

I fitted a charge warning light on my Guzzi, this type; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle...UAAMXQydtTOs8s

It warns if over or undercharging - a neat, simple solution that could give you enough warning to prevent any damage rather than just telling you it's already done.

[Mr Gazza]

Originally Posted by Dukedesmo

It warns if over or undercharging -

We used to call those ammeters.... Great fun watching them melt as you went along sometimes...

[utopia]

Update ..

Following a query on the "other" forum, I have been made aware of over-voltage protection units as per the following link.

https://www.aeroakku.com/CHARGER/-Re...a2390bcc34cf06

At first sight, this looks to be the sort of thing that I had in mind.
I still haven't got a good enough handle on the whole electrical situation to know whether I'm barking up a sensible tree here or not (as I've said before, electrics isn't my best subject) but I thought I'd post the link for reference and also in the hope that others with more knowledge of electrics than myself might comment.

Its probably worth repeating at this point that my concern was initially sparked (pun .. sorry) by a warning on the casing of my Magneti Morelli LiFePO4 batteries against charging them at over 15 volts.
As an electrical innocent myself, I have no idea whether the addition of one of these units would render the WHOLE charging system completely safe when used with an LiFePO4 battery .. I'm just trying to cover the aforementioned warning against over-voltage charging of the battery.

It seems logical to me that, if over-voltage charging should occur, merely isolating the battery would not be sufficient protection as the charge coming from the alternator needs to go somewhere (and I suspect the reg/rec wouldn't like it very much). Therefore I would be considering using a unit such as the one in the link to totally kill the electrics and stop the bike, in the event of such a problem.
It may be a daft idea .. I dunno .. that's why I'm putting it up for discussion.

[350TSS]

Thanks for posting this - I have exactly the same concerns as you do, I do not understand electrics, I want the light weight of a lithium battery, I am aghast at the horror stories which may or may not have been overtaken by recent developments in battery technology and have thought that a "secondary" over voltage protection system would be the answer. I am also constrained by the 2 wire alternator
I am also constrained in that the larger Mosfet regulator just will not fit my bike as currently designed.
I will go with the warning light as the simplest and easiest over voltage protection as I have a probably unjustified prejudice against anything that uses a relay

[Luddite]

I was considering fitting a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery like utopia's to my Evo when the original failed and found this useful guide when I was researching the various options

https://www.rexs-speedshop.com/wp-co...Know-Facts.pdf

The mention of a regulator saver on page 3 is interesting as I hadn't heard of that before reading this article.

In the end I stuck with a regular Motobatt...

[Bitza]

Not so sure about how I've added the link but this might be of interest, if you want to avoid frying your new lithium battery when your ridding along. Bitza
http://ricksmotorsportelectrics/Lith...gulator-14_008

[Luddite]

This link should work, Bitza

https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com...gulator-14_008

[Darren69]

I notice that the reg/rec in the above link appears to be for the 3 wire alternator. so whilst it may not be compatable it may work with the 2 wire bikes.

I dunno if it's just me but there just seems to be more disadvantages than advantages with using a Lithium Ion battery with a bike designed for lead acid batteries. Those disadvantages also seem to carry a rather high risk too. Too much for me I'm afraid.