Not turning over

Bert · 15-02-2021, 05:46 PM

I've only owned my 696 since Wednesday and already it's causing me concern. I tried to start it on day 3 and nothing happened bar a whirring from somewhere under the tank. Once or twice it tried to fire. Battery knackered, I thought. To check this out I had to remove virtually the whole top of the bike. I charged the battery and re-tried to start. Same result. I connected my car to it, more promising, eventually it started but seemed to cut out on idle unexpectedly so I took it out for a spin to warm it up. Battery charging at 13.6- 14.1. I switched off, fortunately on a long slope and when I tried to move off, nothing again. Rolled it down the hill and it started.Also the neutral light no longer comes on. Could the switch be the cause of all this?

motomartin11 · 15-02-2021, 06:19 PM

Did you buy the bike off a dealer? If so it might be worth a call before doing anything further maybe.

bigredduke · 15-02-2021, 06:57 PM

Not much help for now, but because the batteries are such a bugger to get at, I would advise attaching dedicated battery charger leads so that you can easily charge the battery in the future. I use a CTEK charger so I have fitted one of these:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/CTEK-Indica...s%2C223&sr=8-1

It also has the benefit of indicator lights (green, red amber) which tells you when the battery needs a charge. You can also connect a number of accessory leads such as a 12v socket for satnav or phone charging.

Optimate offer similar leads.

Luddite · 15-02-2021, 07:16 PM

Sorry to hear you're having problems already, Bert. Welcome to the exciting world of Ducati ownership.

If you can't take it back to a dealer and it's not the battery, it might be connected to the neutral light.

Did you get any low battery messages on the dash? Try pushing the mode switch forward and see if there are any error logs recorded.

If the battery voltage drops too low, the ECU will protect itself by shutting down completely and you'll see the dash go blank - probably accompanied by a message like "0008 RSW". When the dash comes back on, the clock, trip and any ABS/TC settings will also be reset.

On the 696, there is an ignition cut out linked to the neutral light switch. If the light isn't illuminated, then the ECU thinks it's in gear and the bike won't start (unless the clutch is pulled in). If the neutral light won't come on, try starting it with the clutch pulled in. The switch connector can suffer from corrosion but it's easy to get to on the back of the engine.

It's only one wire - try cleaning the connector and the end of the switch and also make sure the connector is a tight fit on the switch itself (if it feels loose, close up the connector slightly with some pliers.

Tim88 · 15-02-2021, 08:01 PM

As Luddite describes, a sure sign of poor or no starting due to failing battery is the low voltage issue causing the dash to go crazy and display that message that scrolls by too fast to read and looks like a collection of random characters! My 696 very rarely did this, I guess the battery was not too bad, but my evo was a terror for this during the last year or two of the Yuasa and the last year of the subsequent Motobatt. I always got tricked by the battery measuring ok only to have the voltage dip issue on heavy discharge. The dash shutting down and forgetting my traction control settings also worried me greatly until I learned on this forum that it was designed to do this. Trying lithium now to sidestep the problem, so far with success, but your 696 is easier on the starter and a regular agm battery should be fine for two or three years. New batteries are not as good as they used to be in my opinion (based on rather limited real evidence though!) I still have the two lead acids and keep them trickle charged so they were not dead when I changed them but neither will be going back on a bike. If not a battery problem then the plot thickens and who knows where it might lead!

16-02-2021, 03:56 AM

I had issues that sound similar to yours Bert when I had a 696, turned out it was the regulator rectifier, once changed I never had any issues. My local bike shop identified the issue so I can’t advise how you check the reg-rec yourself......Luddite ?

Bert · 27-02-2021, 01:32 PM

Where is this switch? On the front or rear of the engine? My neutral light is indeed intermittent.

Ron1000 · 27-02-2021, 02:06 PM

Back. Look in past rear brake reservoir.

slob · 15-02-2021, 06:48 PM

Probably a knackered battery (lead-acid batteries don’t like extreme cold) Do you have a multimeter? The fact you see the right charging voltage doesn’t mean the battery is holding it very long but it sounds like your Reg/Rec is working OK. The ECU needs a healthy, steady voltage to function correctly. The whirring noise at power on is the fuel pump, in the tank, priming. As motomartin11 says, if you bought it from a dealer, make it their problem.

Bert · 16-02-2021, 10:33 AM

Mhanks for all the replies. Seems a helpful group. I will get a new battery and work from there..I will definitely attach charging leads!The display is fine. No neutral light any longer but even with clutch in, nada. At least I know now what the whirring noise is. I thought I'd bought from a dealer....It was an Ebay dealer's account, he invoiced me on dealer's paperwork..... but he says he's a private seller! I bought at distance without seein it but, to be fair, it did start for the first day! The speedo WAS working, apparently, when my dealer had it. And no code card? Well, I should have asked, you see.

Ron1000 · 16-02-2021, 11:04 AM

Check your starter motor cable also. My 1100 was much better after I cleaned it up and sprayed contact fluid on it.

Do not try to unscrew the lead tho. That could damage the internals of the motor if it rotates. Just lift the boot, gently clean it as best you can, put contact cleaner on it then coat with a protective grease then boot back on.

And don’t panic, your on the best forum in the world. Between the collective skills on here you’ll be up and running.

Luddite · 16-02-2021, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bert

No neutral light any longer but even with clutch in, nada.

I believe the single wire neutral light switch works by earthing the neutral light when the bike is not in gear. So, if you remove the wire from the switch and touch it against a bare part of the engine or frame, the light should illuminate. You'll need to detach the wire anyway to clean both the switch end and the connector itself.

motomartin11 · 16-02-2021, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bert

Mhanks for all the replies. Seems a helpful group. I will get a new battery and work from there..I will definitely attach charging leads!The display is fine. No neutral light any longer but even with clutch in, nada. At least I know now what the whirring noise is. I thought I'd bought from a dealer....It was an Ebay dealer's account, he invoiced me on dealer's paperwork..... but he says he's a private seller! I bought at distance without seein it but, to be fair, it did start for the first day! The speedo WAS working, apparently, when my dealer had it. And no code card? Well, I should have asked, you see.

May be worth raising this with Ebay?

Bert · 18-02-2021, 04:30 PM

I suppose I could, just out of principle.

utopia · 27-02-2021, 02:10 PM

Neutral switch is on the rear of the engine, right hand side.
As a location aid, if you look at the photo in Luddite's post #5 above you will notice the rear brake reservoir in the top right corner.

edit .. ah, just too late .... as Ron sez.

15-02-2021, 05:46 PM	#1
Bert Registered User Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Brighton Bike: M696 Posts: 18	Not turning over I've only owned my 696 since Wednesday and already it's causing me concern. I tried to start it on day 3 and nothing happened bar a whirring from somewhere under the tank. Once or twice it tried to fire. Battery knackered, I thought. To check this out I had to remove virtually the whole top of the bike. I charged the battery and re-tried to start. Same result. I connected my car to it, more promising, eventually it started but seemed to cut out on idle unexpectedly so I took it out for a spin to warm it up. Battery charging at 13.6- 14.1. I switched off, fortunately on a long slope and when I tried to move off, nothing again. Rolled it down the hill and it started.Also the neutral light no longer comes on. Could the switch be the cause of all this?

15-02-2021, 06:19 PM	#2
motomartin11 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: stourbridge Bike: M750 Posts: 352	Did you buy the bike off a dealer? If so it might be worth a call before doing anything further maybe.

15-02-2021, 06:57 PM	#3
bigredduke Nothing to see here Join Date: May 2005 Location: brough Bike: M1100evo Posts: 1,546	Not much help for now, but because the batteries are such a bugger to get at, I would advise attaching dedicated battery charger leads so that you can easily charge the battery in the future. I use a CTEK charger so I have fitted one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/CTEK-Indica...s%2C223&sr=8-1 It also has the benefit of indicator lights (green, red amber) which tells you when the battery needs a charge. You can also connect a number of accessory leads such as a 12v socket for satnav or phone charging. Optimate offer similar leads.

15-02-2021, 07:16 PM	#4
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	Sorry to hear you're having problems already, Bert. Welcome to the exciting world of Ducati ownership. If you can't take it back to a dealer and it's not the battery, it might be connected to the neutral light. Did you get any low battery messages on the dash? Try pushing the mode switch forward and see if there are any error logs recorded. If the battery voltage drops too low, the ECU will protect itself by shutting down completely and you'll see the dash go blank - probably accompanied by a message like "0008 RSW". When the dash comes back on, the clock, trip and any ABS/TC settings will also be reset. On the 696, there is an ignition cut out linked to the neutral light switch. If the light isn't illuminated, then the ECU thinks it's in gear and the bike won't start (unless the clutch is pulled in). If the neutral light won't come on, try starting it with the clutch pulled in. The switch connector can suffer from corrosion but it's easy to get to on the back of the engine. It's only one wire - try cleaning the connector and the end of the switch and also make sure the connector is a tight fit on the switch itself (if it feels loose, close up the connector slightly with some pliers.

15-02-2021, 08:01 PM	#5
Tim88 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: London Bike: M1100evo Posts: 98	As Luddite describes, a sure sign of poor or no starting due to failing battery is the low voltage issue causing the dash to go crazy and display that message that scrolls by too fast to read and looks like a collection of random characters! My 696 very rarely did this, I guess the battery was not too bad, but my evo was a terror for this during the last year or two of the Yuasa and the last year of the subsequent Motobatt. I always got tricked by the battery measuring ok only to have the voltage dip issue on heavy discharge. The dash shutting down and forgetting my traction control settings also worried me greatly until I learned on this forum that it was designed to do this. Trying lithium now to sidestep the problem, so far with success, but your 696 is easier on the starter and a regular agm battery should be fine for two or three years. New batteries are not as good as they used to be in my opinion (based on rather limited real evidence though!) I still have the two lead acids and keep them trickle charged so they were not dead when I changed them but neither will be going back on a bike. If not a battery problem then the plot thickens and who knows where it might lead!

16-02-2021, 03:56 AM	#6
Moco1961 Guest Posts: n/a	I had issues that sound similar to yours Bert when I had a 696, turned out it was the regulator rectifier, once changed I never had any issues. My local bike shop identified the issue so I can’t advise how you check the reg-rec yourself......Luddite ?

27-02-2021, 01:32 PM	#7
Bert Registered User Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Brighton Bike: M696 Posts: 18	Where is this switch? On the front or rear of the engine? My neutral light is indeed intermittent.

27-02-2021, 02:06 PM	#8
Ron1000 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Livingston Bike: M1100evo Posts: 863	Back. Look in past rear brake reservoir.

15-02-2021, 06:48 PM	#9
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	Probably a knackered battery (lead-acid batteries don’t like extreme cold) Do you have a multimeter? The fact you see the right charging voltage doesn’t mean the battery is holding it very long but it sounds like your Reg/Rec is working OK. The ECU needs a healthy, steady voltage to function correctly. The whirring noise at power on is the fuel pump, in the tank, priming. As motomartin11 says, if you bought it from a dealer, make it their problem.

16-02-2021, 10:33 AM	#10
Bert Registered User Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Brighton Bike: M696 Posts: 18	Mhanks for all the replies. Seems a helpful group. I will get a new battery and work from there..I will definitely attach charging leads!The display is fine. No neutral light any longer but even with clutch in, nada. At least I know now what the whirring noise is. I thought I'd bought from a dealer....It was an Ebay dealer's account, he invoiced me on dealer's paperwork..... but he says he's a private seller! I bought at distance without seein it but, to be fair, it did start for the first day! The speedo WAS working, apparently, when my dealer had it. And no code card? Well, I should have asked, you see.

16-02-2021, 11:04 AM	#11
Ron1000 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Livingston Bike: M1100evo Posts: 863	Check your starter motor cable also. My 1100 was much better after I cleaned it up and sprayed contact fluid on it. Do not try to unscrew the lead tho. That could damage the internals of the motor if it rotates. Just lift the boot, gently clean it as best you can, put contact cleaner on it then coat with a protective grease then boot back on. And don’t panic, your on the best forum in the world. Between the collective skills on here you’ll be up and running.

18-02-2021, 04:30 PM	#14
Bert Registered User Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Brighton Bike: M696 Posts: 18	I suppose I could, just out of principle.

27-02-2021, 02:10 PM	#15
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	Neutral switch is on the rear of the engine, right hand side. As a location aid, if you look at the photo in Luddite's post #5 above you will notice the rear brake reservoir in the top right corner. edit .. ah, just too late .... as Ron sez.