UK Monster Owners Club Forum .: Technical :. Mods & How To's » Slow Monster rebuild

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Old 29-04-2019, 03:24 PM   #916
utopia
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Sorry to hear of your carbon fibre tribulations.
Hand lay-up can be tricky, eh ?
I did ponder vacuum bagging but my moulds were relatively simple and I (just) got away with it.

Two thoughts ..
1) The carbon tank needs a rethink.
2) I got to wondering if you could restore a suitable appearance to those parts which are essentially cosmetic rather than structural, simply by serious rubbing down followed by a few heavy coats of clear laquer ?
I have restored carbon parts which looked like scrap using U-Pol no1 clear, uv resistant stuff (expensive but good).

Also, if you would like me to dig out a few samples of the fibreglass twill weave cloth that I used, pm me your address.
I certainly found that voids were minimalised by using twill weave cloth in the finer grades, as it is much more drapable and conforms much better to the nadgery shaped areas.

Also, btw, East Coast Fibreglass were much cheaper than Easy Composites.
They also have quite a few "end of roll" bargains most of the time.

Finally, you have my commiserations.
It can be disheartening (to say the least) when a lot of work goes in but the results don't match the effort.
But its all a learning process, I guess.
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Old 29-04-2019, 10:29 PM   #917
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Thanks mate - when you are down, you do not know how much that means.

I have only just (about 3 hours ago) discovered the Eastern Composites website and having spent the last hour reviewing their videos, this subject is just so technical - what chance the poor amateur?

With the total arrogance of those that know nothing I shall overcome.
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Old 29-04-2019, 10:37 PM   #918
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PS I really, really wanted to be at the week-ender this year - it was my target in October 2018 and the way things are now going next year is looking "iffy". I will be there 2020.
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:33 AM   #919
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The tank base has now had 3 laminations of the more expensive CF. Given that the tank will hold about 5 gallons so 23 litres, and one litre of petrol weighs around 740g the tank will need to contain about 17kg of liquid (or 38.25 lbs in proper money) plus the weight of the tank itself say another 5 kg with filler cap and fuel tap I think I need another 3 laminations at least. I have an anxiety as to whether or not to take the part off the mould now whilst the CF is still relatively flexible and therefore has a good chance of being able to be separated or do I finish all 6 laminations before attempting removal. With it still on the mould I can really press down with the roller when laying up the CF which obviously gives it a much better chance of each lamination being properly bonded to the previous one.
Thinking about it as I write, the loading on the tank structure is/will be concentrated on the 4 mounting points so maybe I can get away with perhaps 4 laminations across the whole base but with significant reinforcement say another 3 or 4 laminations around the mounting points. If so the majority of the base will still be relatively flexible and therefore easy to remove. Once started with removal the harder reinforced bits should be able to be prised off. So for now my anxiety is temporarily allayed at least until I try and get the tank base off the mould.
I still have no real confidence in my plan of how to bond the top of the tank to the bottom and no idea at all of how to secure any internal baffles top and bottom when I put the two halves together. I could use those open cell foam blocks inserted through the filler cap after the tank is built to act as a baffle but they are expensive (at least 100) and given the convoluted shape of the tank it will not be easy to achieve even coverage of the blocks within the tank. In any event I quite like the idea of the tank having some internal structural support so the top skin is not too flexible.
Work continues with repairing the other smaller CF components, although my heart is not really in it as the quality of the end product will I suspect always be compromised. I started this project with the objective of doing the best I could and not bodging but to save time here I am bodging. I will give it another week and if the repaired bits are by then looking Ok then I will carry on, if not it is back to modifying or re-making the moulds and the components so that they come out acceptable cosmetically.
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Old 02-05-2019, 04:23 PM   #920
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I had a mixed day today, some progress and a couple of setbacks.
First I removed the instrument nacelle from its mould, rather I had to destroy the mould to get the CF part separated and after an hour of struggling was disappointed to find that it was a fail on two levels, cosmetically and dimensionally. The thickness of the CF means that it will never fit inside the 6mm plate I cut to hold it. Thinking flexibly, I have come up with a solution. Originally it was planned to mount it above the plate but I am pretty sure it will work bolted beneath the plate where fortunately most of the cosmetic aberrations will not be seen. The downside is that I will have to polish the plate and I spent a couple of hours rubbing out all the file marks, misplaced centre punch marks and a lot of mill rolling surface deformation, however it is now nearly ready for buffing
I turned my attention next to the breather/ chain oiler reservoir. The design provides for an inlet pipe from the engine breather into the reservoir and immediately opposite it an exhaust pipe to atmosphere. I have put a filler between the two so I can top up with chain oil which will be gravity fed to just in front of the rear sprocket. The gravity feed is controlled by a tap at the bottom of the reservoir. The pipe into the tap has a 2mm hole in a boss which will be bonded into the reservoir. I realised that if that 2mm hole became blocked the reservoir part of the design would no longer work so I thought it would be a good idea to incorporate a brass mesh filter. The positioning is such that the filter I hope will act as a condenser and take any oil mist out of the incoming air from the breather. I was quite pleased with the result, although soldering the mesh was a bit tricky as I needed 3 hands to hold it, hold the soldering iron and feed the solder.
The filler cap made from a rubber electrical blanking plug over a turned aluminium boss will be put into the reservoir with an adhesive that I can remove if necessary to unblock the filter – should it ever be necessary.





bank citibank near me
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Old 03-05-2019, 03:59 PM   #921
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A small success today, I managed to separate the tank base from its mould. I worried a bit whether I was seeking to do it too early after only 3 laminations but in the end I was glad I did because it was flexible enough to come off relatively easily. The finish inside has a number of “milky” bits but overall not too bad.


Then the tank base was given another lamination with extra reinforcement around the mounting points. After that it was bonding the aluminium pipes into the the front half of the chain oiler reservoir and more rubbing down of repairs/modifications to those moulds where I previously had fails.
I have been pondering how to bond the two halves of the tank together and the chain oiler reservoir gives me an ideal opportunity to try something out. The EL2 laminating resin is incredibly strong but has the viscosity of runny honey so it will be difficult to keep it in the right place when I try bonding the two halves together. What I plan to do is chop up a load of the scrap CF into strands about 6mm long and mix it with the EL2 resin until it forms a thick paste with the consistency of body filler and hope that this will have sufficient tackiness to adhere to a vertical surface without sliding away from the joint to be bonded
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:49 AM   #922
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The fourth lamination on the tank base was laid down yesterday and when I came back to it this morning despite extensive use of the roller during lay- up it is evident that in a number of places the last lamination has separated and cured hard with an air gap to the previous lamination. I have decided to grind these areas back to take out the separated layer/area and patch them, not pretty but they will be on the inside of the tank.
On the flat area above where the carburettors will be there is still noticeable “flex” when pressure is applied to the centre of the flat area so another one or two complete laminations are in order. The structure is incredibly light (too big for the scales but less than 500 g) and another two laminations will only add about 300g but a significant piece of mind. The 4 mounting areas and any areas where the tank rests on rubbers on the frame near the steering head will also get additional reinforcement.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:48 PM   #923
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Managed to get three jobs done today, first was to modify the headlamp shell mould by glue-ing some 1mm polypropylene to the leading edge of the mould. Hopefully I can now make the shell without the right angle turn at the brim and the CF part will come out without delamination between the gel coat and the CF. It took a while as I hot glue gunned the plastic to the mould and had to do it in one inch sections waiting each time for the glue to cool down and harden whilst holding it in position.



Then I machined up two aluminium cups to hold the rubber mounts for chain oiler reservoir. These will be bonded through the outside face the CF reservoir attaching to the rear face, it seems rather a convoluted way to do it but it is Hobson’s choice as there is very limited space behind the reservoir where the rear suspension rocker pivot bolt is located.



Finally I spent some time chopping up scrap CF cloth and mixed it with some EL2 laminating resin. I used the resulting paste as a filler to repair some of the less successful first pass CF parts. The paste looks as though it has sufficient viscosity to be used satisfactorily for joining the two halves of the petrol tank and the chain oiler reservoir. What I did learn is that cutting the CF at c 4 to 6mm meant the paste was very fibrous and not at all good at being a cosmetic filler. It had the consistency of Gun Gum exhaust paste and was not workable easily. I think it would work better if the CF was chopped up finer say about 1mm but wielding the scissors for about an hour is hard on my repetitive strain injury.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:01 PM   #924
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Had a one of those funny days where you do not actually achieve much in the sense of moving things forward but you because you overcame a difficulty you do feel a sense of achievement. I started by trying to make progress on the chain oiler reservoir and the ignitech enclosure, both needed my CF “filler” rubbing down and it is clear that both will require at least one further cycle. The filler formed from EL2 laminating resin is very tough and the rubbing down was hard going, a file was the best tool to remove it as 240 wet and dry was getting nowhere fast. Also both parts will need to be painted as the finish is not good enough for the CF to be displayed. That took a couple of hours before I was thoroughly bored of filing/rubbing down.
I then turned my attention to making the Farraday cage for the ignitech enclosure. I thought I could knock this job off in an hour as I had some fine aluminium mesh about the right mesh size. My initial idea was to cut it to size and bond it in with a layer of resin.
But I very soon realised that because of the convoluted internal shape of the enclosure I was never going to get that mesh to fit inside the enclosure unless I immediately developed a new super sense, the ability to cut flat material accurately and form it to cover all the internal surfaces without gaps and without multiple patches. I next thought about glue-ing some aluminium foil inside but after a couple of attempts that was also a non- starter.
I remembered I had a long length of TV aerial cable in the loft of the garage salvaged from the house refurbishment and the next 3 hours were spent a) stripping the outer insulation layer off about 3.5meteres of the cable, 50mm at a time as any more and the insulation jammed against the copper screen b) removing the copper screening mesh intact, flattening it and spreading the copper screen to a tape about 10mm wide, c) stripping the bare copper earth out of some HD power cable d) soldering up a frame from this earth core that fitted inside the enclosure and then soldering the earth mesh to the wire frame. I did not quite finish before household responsibilities forced me out of the garage so no pictures yet. It will not be the most elegant looking cage but it is light in weight, removable easily and provides a continuous copper screen all around the inside of the enclosure and a second cage will be glued to the underside of the battery box which forms the lid of the enclosure.
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Old 13-05-2019, 06:10 AM   #925
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I suffered two annoying setbacks yesterday, both involving the ignitech enclosure. I got the Dremel out to cut off the surplus CF and to trial fit it into the frame and resolve any interface issues with the battery box/infill panels. About five minutes in and there is a blinding white flash from the Dremel and a bang and all the power and lights in my garage went AWOL. First thoughts were I was extremely disappointed as the Dremel is a nice and very handy tool and I did not want to lose it, also it is not that old. The RCD in the garage was still OK as was the one in the house so a bit puzzling, then I remembered that the garage supply comes via another consumer unit in another shed which had tripped. After I changed the fuse in the plug the Dremel worked perfectly, I can only assume that the CF dust from the cutting disc had got to the commutator and shorted the lot out. Thereafter I put the flexible drive on the Dremel to keep the commutator as far away from the dust as possible.
The second setback was that when I finally finished cutting off the surplus the component would not fit in its designed space in the triangular space behind and beneath the headstock. This was very odd because I checked the pattern before making the mould which was nicely snug but definitely fitted. The CF component produced fails to fit by about 1 to 2mm and there is no flexibility in the moulding to press fit it so the only option is to modify the mould and re-make it.
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Old 14-05-2019, 07:00 PM   #926
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Had a productive day today, I started with rubbing down the repaired moulds and continued until my fingertips could take no more. No repaired moulds were finished but good progress was made.

For a bit of light relief first I bored out the rubber mount cups for the chain oiler reservoir by 1mm to a) lighten them and b) to provide a bit more latitude for movement by the rubber isolation mount.

Then I pondered what to do with my fuel tank tap, I have 3 different design on/off/reserve taps all from China and none costing more than 8. The first has a 16mm left hand threaded nut which seals via a fibre washer and requires a boss to be made and threaded male left handed. I cannot find a 16mm left hand die anywhere so the fuel tap is useless. The second is the same but with an 18mm x 1mm right hand thread (I have a suitable die), it comes with one of those nice removable sediment traps at the bottom but has only a 6mm outlet pipe. The last one has an 8mm outlet and requires to be bolted to a flange on the tank x 2 x 6mm bolts/studs, unfortunately no sediment trap but there is a nice neoprene gasket which should provide a better means of sealing than a fibre washer. This is the one I decided to use, mainly because of the 8mm outlet although I also prefer the sealing arrangement. There is only room for the tap on the RH side towards the back of the tank and fortunately the tap is the right orientation for that location, i.e. the outlet faces forward towards the vacuum pump.

I cut some scrap 6mm aluminium plate drilled and tapped it and provided a 3mm aluminium top mounting plate with circumferential 5mm holes for bonding into the tank. The 6mm plate will be let into the base and the 3mm plate will be resined in prior to putting the tank top on. The tap will be removed prior to the innards of the tank being sealed from nasty ethanol petrol.
Quite pleased with the design and for once with the execution.


Finally I set about cutting out the CF headlamp supports, these will need to be painted as they are cosmetically challenged but I think fit for purpose dimensionally and structurally. Roughly cut out but not quite finished (no mounting holes drilled and not yet painted) they only weigh 100g the pair.
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Old 16-05-2019, 05:33 AM   #927
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I tried boding the two halves of the chain oiler reservoir together today, not before I spent some time buggering about getting the mounting cups and their holes aligned with the two mounting lugs on the frame. Fortunately, I decided to cut the holes for them first at 20mm rather than the required 25mm as enlarging the holes gave me wiggle room to get the full size holes in (hopefully) the right place.
I mixed my EL2 epoxy resin with my very finely chopped CF and the resulting gloop whilst much better for being finely chopped was still very difficult to work. The two halves have bonded together but will need a further go to get the container oil tight and a lot of rubbing down to look at all half decent. It will have to be painted.
The mounting cups will be bonded in after the container is a container and not a colander. They have to be bonded in positioned with about a 15 degree angle between the back of the cup and the back of the container if the resulting reservoir is to a) have sufficient clearance for the rear suspension rocker pivot bolt and b) sit right with the frame. I am not exactly sure how to do this but I suspect it will involve placing the reservoir in position, taping round the base of the cups with the tape projecting about 5 to 10 mm beyond the base of the cup and filling the ensuing “bucket” with dollops of stiffly mixed resin gloop then forcing the back of the container over the cups so that the gloop takes up the angle. I will need to then gaffer tape the container into the right position whilst the resin sets.
I has dawned on me that similar modifications to the headlamp shell mould will have to be carried out on the fly-screen, the seat, the air scoops, the hugger and the belt covers if I am to reduce the risk of more failures. This will take at least a further 15 hours before I can start laying CF in these moulds.
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