Slow Monster rebuild - Page 15

350TSS · 14-07-2017, 10:17 AM

In summary the job list is 120+ items with an estimated total duration of 380+ hours. About 33% of the jobs and 50% of the time relate to finishing the CF components and painting the frame and engine.
If I am to ride this beast any time soon I will have to change my approach and really get on with crossing off the jobs on the list, so less staring at it and drinking large mugs of tea and more determination required.

350TSS · 14-07-2017, 10:26 AM

The compilation of the list highlighted some critical (read expensive) decisions required to move the project forward These are:
1. Rear suspension: the existing hock absorber is knackered and probably beyond re-building so its a Hagon YSS or Ohlins and that can be with or without a remote reservoir. Obviously need to decide as bracketry will be needed to be brazed to the frame if a remote reservoir is selected.
2. Front suspension; rebuild the originals or send away to KTech or Maxton to let them put it together with fancy (expensive) internals.
3. Carbon wheels or not? -they will cost more than the bike is worth as it stands but I have always had the view that light weight wheels are the best tuning mod for any bike.
4 depending upon the condition of the bores when I take the heads off - 944cc barrels and pistons

350TSS · 14-07-2017, 10:40 AM

Another decision which is becoming critical is the colour of the frame and body work.
My favourite bikes that I have owned over my 48 year riding career have all been red and black or red and polished aluminium or black and polished aluminium.
Polished aluminium is not an option for this one.
I will probably upset a few on here by saying that I do not think Ducatis look well with black frames. The iconic trellis is not sufficiently highlighted in gloss black and in satin black they just look as though the paint job wasn't very good.
If the frame is to be red then all the body work will have to be black, which is the most unforgiving colour for the home sprayer, showing every imperfection. Also with my design the bodywork is extensive and possibly overwhelming.
The bevel 750SS that Paul Smart won with at the Imola 200 with silver body work and a metallic blue green is gaining favour but I do not know the colour code for the frame colour and the only car I have seen painted in roughly that colour is a VW golf. Ho hum

utopia · 14-07-2017, 10:51 AM

I put carbon wheels on my 750 last year.
Love 'em ... they make the bike much more nimble.
I got Dymags, partly cos I like the design but also cos they had a batch of "cosmetic seconds" available at a reduced price.
Only the front is a second, the rear is perfect ... but I can't tell the difference.
It knocked about £400 off the price of the pair though.
I mention this because I've seen this same offer more than once .. it could be that its just an occasional ploy that they use to sell wheels.
Might be worth looking out for a similar deal.

I assume you're prepared to change your own tyres ?

350TSS · 15-07-2017, 11:07 PM

Thanks for the heads up on "seconds".
I assume your 750 is a later model (around 2000) with larger wheel spindle sizes than my 1993/4 model. Online I cannot seem to find anyone that lists wheels for the earlier model.
If there is no one doing the small spindle version then, if I am determined to fit CF wheels (not a given yet) I have 2 options
1. Buy the wheels for the later model and either buy compromise bearings or machine up some spacers to accommodate the difference.
2. Take the front forks legs out of the S4 I have leaning against the garage wall not doing very much and use the discs and calipers from that also. I would need to check all critical dimensions to ensure it fits my frame and 1993/4 yokes. For the rear I could probably use the adjustment blocks aout of the S4 swinging arm and simply enlarge the adjustment slot on my 1993/4 swinging arm.

Darkness · 16-07-2017, 06:55 AM

On the front end, only the bearings, the bearing spacer, speedo drive, axle and axle nut changed, but the outer diameter of the bearings is the same.

As long as those all match, The standard 1994 and 2000 wheels are interchangeable.

May also apply to rears?

Darren69 · 16-07-2017, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350TSS

The compilation of the list highlighted some critical (read expensive) decisions required to move the project forward These are:
1. Rear suspension: the existing hock absorber is knackered and probably beyond re-building so its a Hagon YSS or Ohlins and that can be with or without a remote reservoir. Obviously need to decide as bracketry will be needed to be brazed to the frame if a remote reservoir is selected.
2. Front suspension; rebuild the originals or send away to KTech or Maxton to let them put it together with fancy (expensive) internals.
3. Carbon wheels or not? -they will cost more than the bike is worth as it stands but I have always had the view that light weight wheels are the best tuning mod for any bike.
4 depending upon the condition of the bores when I take the heads off - 944cc barrels and pistons

Nitron do reasonably priced shocks somewhere between Hagon and Ohlins and performance wise they're probably as good as Ohlins although I haven't made the comparison directly as I only have Ohlins but if i were looking to replace that I'd probably be looking at Nitron.

utopia · 16-07-2017, 10:27 AM

Dymag use alloy hubs (I think they are Talon) which I believe they can machine to your spec, so matching earlier wheels shouldn't be a problem.
The carbon wheel itself is universal, with suitable hubs bonded (and splined) in according to requirements.
But yes, my 750 is a 2000 model with the larger spindle.

I also have a Nitron rear shock.
Quality is excellent (though I may not be the most critical judge of its performance, which is in any case somewhat masked by the harsh, original front suspension).
Finish and durability are both good too, with the unit having an ally body, rather than plated steel.
Its also very light.

350TSS · 19-07-2017, 07:19 AM

Nitron now purchased online - I chose the cheapest one a) because it was the cheapest and b) because I was unsure about mounting of the remote reservoir on the more expensive versions. Both top and bottom mounts of the shock absorber are designed to move so, even though there is a flexible hose to the remote reservoir, judging where to mount the reservoir without having any stress on that hose through the range of suspension movement given that I would have to braze some brackets to the frame, was a complication too far.

350TSS · 19-07-2017, 12:32 PM

Thought I had better sort out the seat attachment/security issue today. I decided I will not weld back on the lock and refit the cable rather go for a latch under the seat opened by a 4mm allen key. Obviously not as secure as the lock but only I (and readers here) know how it is done.

3 steps to achieving

outcome 1. make a seat latch plate, 2. have a level place to bolt said latch plate and 3. make a lever mechanism operated from below that actuates said latch.

350TSS · 19-07-2017, 12:40 PM

The second aim was a little trickier. I already butchered the frame when I cut off the passenger grab rails and truncated the rear and I had welded a piece back in as a cross brace, this followed the curve of the frame. Guess where the bolt holes for the latch are - right on the top of the curve, therefore not an ideal place to mount the latch plate. Only one solution is to cut out my infill piece and make it where the plate will bolt on. Out with the Dremel and all but one of my 1" cutting discs used up we are now as per the pictures below.

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350TSS · 27-07-2017, 05:53 AM

Finished the seat latch mechanism and the attachment to the frame yesterday. It took much longer than I thought as these sort of jobs usually do.
First I cut a piece of flat 2mm steel to fit the hole I had dremelled out, then I ground /chiselled off the original retaining nuts (one had a broken stud irretrievably embedded with half a broken drill within it so it had to go)

350TSS · 27-07-2017, 05:57 AM

Sorry for all the short replies but if I write a long one then the site seems to time out and it will not upload and I end up writing it 3 times

350TSS · 27-07-2017, 06:01 AM

I then turned 2 x 12mm wasted steel bushed threaded 6mm to replace the nuts and a third drilled 6mm to provide a pivot bush for the operating mechanism. These were welded to the underside of the plate and the fitted into the hole in the frame.
The welding into the frame was not my finest hour as I managed to burn 3 holes which had to be filled in and then ground back (no pictures allowed until I get it completely straight)

350TSS · 27-07-2017, 06:08 AM

I am quite pleased with the mechanism itself, it weighs about half the original and is operated by a 3mm allen key from beneath, through a 6mm brass peg which has an aluminium operating lever with an interference fit on the brass shaft. It took ages to get it to operate smoothly(no binding on the bush, or the plastic latch or the steel latch frame) but it does so now.

16-07-2017, 06:55 AM	#216
Darkness . Join Date: May 2007 Location: Stockbridge Bike: M900 Posts: 1,984	On the front end, only the bearings, the bearing spacer, speedo drive, axle and axle nut changed, but the outer diameter of the bearings is the same. As long as those all match, The standard 1994 and 2000 wheels are interchangeable. May also apply to rears? __________________ Original and Best since 1993

19-07-2017, 12:40 PM	#221
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	The second aim was a little trickier. I already butchered the frame when I cut off the passenger grab rails and truncated the rear and I had welded a piece back in as a cross brace, this followed the curve of the frame. Guess where the bolt holes for the latch are - right on the top of the curve, therefore not an ideal place to mount the latch plate. Only one solution is to cut out my infill piece and make it where the plate will bolt on. Out with the Dremel and all but one of my 1" cutting discs used up we are now as per the pictures below. /image/tcjp879jd/][/url]

14-07-2017, 10:17 AM	#211
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	In summary the job list is 120+ items with an estimated total duration of 380+ hours. About 33% of the jobs and 50% of the time relate to finishing the CF components and painting the frame and engine. If I am to ride this beast any time soon I will have to change my approach and really get on with crossing off the jobs on the list, so less staring at it and drinking large mugs of tea and more determination required.

14-07-2017, 10:26 AM	#212
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	The compilation of the list highlighted some critical (read expensive) decisions required to move the project forward These are: 1. Rear suspension: the existing hock absorber is knackered and probably beyond re-building so its a Hagon YSS or Ohlins and that can be with or without a remote reservoir. Obviously need to decide as bracketry will be needed to be brazed to the frame if a remote reservoir is selected. 2. Front suspension; rebuild the originals or send away to KTech or Maxton to let them put it together with fancy (expensive) internals. 3. Carbon wheels or not? -they will cost more than the bike is worth as it stands but I have always had the view that light weight wheels are the best tuning mod for any bike. 4 depending upon the condition of the bores when I take the heads off - 944cc barrels and pistons

14-07-2017, 10:40 AM	#213
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	Another decision which is becoming critical is the colour of the frame and body work. My favourite bikes that I have owned over my 48 year riding career have all been red and black or red and polished aluminium or black and polished aluminium. Polished aluminium is not an option for this one. I will probably upset a few on here by saying that I do not think Ducatis look well with black frames. The iconic trellis is not sufficiently highlighted in gloss black and in satin black they just look as though the paint job wasn't very good. If the frame is to be red then all the body work will have to be black, which is the most unforgiving colour for the home sprayer, showing every imperfection. Also with my design the bodywork is extensive and possibly overwhelming. The bevel 750SS that Paul Smart won with at the Imola 200 with silver body work and a metallic blue green is gaining favour but I do not know the colour code for the frame colour and the only car I have seen painted in roughly that colour is a VW golf. Ho hum

14-07-2017, 10:51 AM	#214
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	I put carbon wheels on my 750 last year. Love 'em ... they make the bike much more nimble. I got Dymags, partly cos I like the design but also cos they had a batch of "cosmetic seconds" available at a reduced price. Only the front is a second, the rear is perfect ... but I can't tell the difference. It knocked about £400 off the price of the pair though. I mention this because I've seen this same offer more than once .. it could be that its just an occasional ploy that they use to sell wheels. Might be worth looking out for a similar deal. I assume you're prepared to change your own tyres ?

15-07-2017, 11:07 PM	#215
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	Thanks for the heads up on "seconds". I assume your 750 is a later model (around 2000) with larger wheel spindle sizes than my 1993/4 model. Online I cannot seem to find anyone that lists wheels for the earlier model. If there is no one doing the small spindle version then, if I am determined to fit CF wheels (not a given yet) I have 2 options 1. Buy the wheels for the later model and either buy compromise bearings or machine up some spacers to accommodate the difference. 2. Take the front forks legs out of the S4 I have leaning against the garage wall not doing very much and use the discs and calipers from that also. I would need to check all critical dimensions to ensure it fits my frame and 1993/4 yokes. For the rear I could probably use the adjustment blocks aout of the S4 swinging arm and simply enlarge the adjustment slot on my 1993/4 swinging arm.

16-07-2017, 10:27 AM	#218
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	Dymag use alloy hubs (I think they are Talon) which I believe they can machine to your spec, so matching earlier wheels shouldn't be a problem. The carbon wheel itself is universal, with suitable hubs bonded (and splined) in according to requirements. But yes, my 750 is a 2000 model with the larger spindle. I also have a Nitron rear shock. Quality is excellent (though I may not be the most critical judge of its performance, which is in any case somewhat masked by the harsh, original front suspension). Finish and durability are both good too, with the unit having an ally body, rather than plated steel. Its also very light.

19-07-2017, 07:19 AM	#219
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	Nitron now purchased online - I chose the cheapest one a) because it was the cheapest and b) because I was unsure about mounting of the remote reservoir on the more expensive versions. Both top and bottom mounts of the shock absorber are designed to move so, even though there is a flexible hose to the remote reservoir, judging where to mount the reservoir without having any stress on that hose through the range of suspension movement given that I would have to braze some brackets to the frame, was a complication too far.

19-07-2017, 12:32 PM	#220
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	Thought I had better sort out the seat attachment/security issue today. I decided I will not weld back on the lock and refit the cable rather go for a latch under the seat opened by a 4mm allen key. Obviously not as secure as the lock but only I (and readers here) know how it is done. 3 steps to achieving outcome 1. make a seat latch plate, 2. have a level place to bolt said latch plate and 3. make a lever mechanism operated from below that actuates said latch.

27-07-2017, 05:53 AM	#222
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	Finished the seat latch mechanism and the attachment to the frame yesterday. It took much longer than I thought as these sort of jobs usually do. First I cut a piece of flat 2mm steel to fit the hole I had dremelled out, then I ground /chiselled off the original retaining nuts (one had a broken stud irretrievably embedded with half a broken drill within it so it had to go)

27-07-2017, 05:57 AM	#223
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	Sorry for all the short replies but if I write a long one then the site seems to time out and it will not upload and I end up writing it 3 times

27-07-2017, 06:01 AM	#224
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	I then turned 2 x 12mm wasted steel bushed threaded 6mm to replace the nuts and a third drilled 6mm to provide a pivot bush for the operating mechanism. These were welded to the underside of the plate and the fitted into the hole in the frame. The welding into the frame was not my finest hour as I managed to burn 3 holes which had to be filled in and then ground back (no pictures allowed until I get it completely straight)

27-07-2017, 06:08 AM	#225
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	I am quite pleased with the mechanism itself, it weighs about half the original and is operated by a 3mm allen key from beneath, through a 6mm brass peg which has an aluminium operating lever with an interference fit on the brass shaft. It took ages to get it to operate smoothly(no binding on the bush, or the plastic latch or the steel latch frame) but it does so now.