SS yolks on Monster?

[Mr Gazza]

Originally Posted by Luddite

An excellent explanation from Mr Gazza (worthy of Tony Foale, I'd say!).

That sort of flattery will get you a long way! But I don't think I am worthy of being compared to a guru like that.

Brilliant illustration there though Luddite, graphically showing what's going on. You can also see how the position of the axle relative to the forks would do exactly the same thing to the trail as the yoke offset. Provided you pay attention to the verticle !

All this geometry is a total red herring in this case though. This is a weight distribution issue.

[utopia]

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

All this geometry is a total red herring in this case though. This is a weight distribution issue.

Yes, but I thought that the notion was to alter the geometry to put more weight on the rear, then compensate for the resultant slower steering by reducing the trail .. by fitting the yokes with more offset ...?
At least, that was my reading of it.

It's all linked though, innit ?

(actually, now that I see the above sentence in print, I quite fancy it as a t-shirt slogan)

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by utopia

’I thought that the notion was to alter the geometry to put more weight on the rear, then compensate for the resultant slower steering by reducing the trail by fitting the yokes with more offset’

That would need a pretty MAHUSIVE tee shirt to be legible!

[Mr Gazza]

Originally Posted by utopia

Yes, but I thought that the notion was to alter the geometry to put more weight on the rear,

Bitza didn't say that, although it might be implied. Besides the proposed alterations are the wrong way of going about increasing rear wheel grip and will lead to far worse problems.

Would I be right in assuming that the bike still has the rear wheel section from when it was a 600?
A fatter back wheel and tyre is going to do far more good than fannying with the geometry and then a set of standard Monster handlebars to put the weight back where it should be.

...And I think I'd be up for a T-shirt innit..

[Bitza]

Well first thanks for all the responses.

My current thinking is that: my issues basically stem from the fact that I've basically changed everything, in particular the ridding position (clip ons/rearsets) which as per Mr Gazza's comments put the riders weight forward, coupled with my attempts to quicken the steering (raising the rear/dropping the front). Utopia explains best how I aim to resolve the issue. Thanks particularly Darkness for the interesting links. Fitting ss yolks may seem a radical move, but for me this is relatively simple as I don't have handle bars to mount, and a bonus is that I get a far more attractive top yolk to look at!

Sorry I can't remember where the rear grip issue was discussed, it wasn't very popular anyway as I recall. Basically I've been having occasional slips at the rear, easy enough to correct but not confidence inspiring, has happened on 60mph turns as well as simply turning into sharp tuns from a standstill.

[Bitza]

The Plan, in (approximate) numbers.

1 .Fit the ss yolks giving 30mm offset +5mm on the standard early Monster ones, this in turn reduces the trail by 5.5 degrees, but does reduce the forward weight distribution by 0.25% & also increases the wheelbase by 4.5mm.

2. Reduce rear ride height by 13.75mm (+ 3mm to allow fro changing wheel/tyre to 180/55), this will give the same trail figure that I started with, plus reducing the forward weight distribution by a further 0.41% (giving a total of 0.66%)

How significant a 0.66% reduction in the forward weight distribution proves is I guess the million dollar question. A minor bonus is that I can also junk the risers an save a bit of unsprung weight to boot. Unfortunately I'm doing this as I proceed with the strip down prior to fitting an S2R 1100 lump, so I won't be able to share the results of this mod till Spring, I bet you can't wait. Thanks again for all the input Bitza, P.S. I'll try to have it up & running before the "Weekender" comes to North Wales.

[Flip]

I appreciate the maths on what you are saying and understand how you are hoping the weight bias coupled with your geometry changes will help but I am still struggling somewhat to come to terms with the fact you don't have enough rear grip.

I have known some very fast road riders on Monster's over the years who haven't had anything like the issues you are describing, especially as you say it happens in slow as well as fastish (60mph) corners- it's like something isn't right somewhere else to me.

I can understand how clip-ons transfer some body weight forward but unless (without being rude) you weigh a lot even then it shouldn't be happening to the extreme and by the same token there was a chap (Doug DRC) who weighed next to nothing on a 1000DS Monster and he never had issues either before or after fitting clip-ons.

[Bitza]

Well Flip, I know exactly what you're talking about, but what can you do other than try a few things following some kind of logic and hoping for a bit of luck along the way. After this MKIII rebuild so much will have changed that if I do cure my rear grip issues, I won't really definitively know what's cured the problem either. My problem is that I enjoy pratting around with the bike as much as I do ridding it! Bitza.

[Flip]

Originally Posted by Bitza

Well Flip, I know exactly what you're talking about, but what can you do other than try a few things following some kind of logic and hoping for a bit of luck along the way. After this MKIII rebuild so much will have changed that if I do cure my rear grip issues, I won't really definitively know what's cured the problem either. My problem is that I enjoy pratting around with the bike as much as I do ridding it! Bitza.

Yes I have had a similar experience when a few years ago I had my forks done by Maxton, had my Nitron shock fully serviced with a new (slightly heavier) spring and swapped from Pirelli's to Michelin tyres.

The suspension felt amazing but the tyres and as it turned out later, slightly knackered steering bearings (somewhat masked by the lighter steering Pirelli's) screwed up my light steering flickable Monster into feeling like I had an under inflated front tyre.

A change of bearings and another 10mm raised at the rear sorted it back to how I love it and all Italian loviness was restored.

I look forward to hearing your continued exploits come Spring time.