Friday Task

Kato · 26-02-2021, 08:34 AM

Thought it was going to be an easy Friday however my task today is to get a wartime jeep klaxon working

Never seen one before certainly never taken one apart, not even sure what voltage its expecting ? I guess 6v first thing I noticed are two wires that don't appear to e attached to anything and should I suspect go either end of what looks like a very primitive resistor, all pointers, experience, knowledge gratefully received

Darren69 · 26-02-2021, 09:22 AM

Any good?

http://www.delcoremyhistory.com/Serv...orn%201933.htm

Kato · 26-02-2021, 09:45 AM

Very useful thanks Darren

Kato · 26-02-2021, 10:51 AM

After a bit of messing about with the klaxon it seems the circuitry is passing current and my first observation was correct in that the two wires should connect either end of the condenser, it looks like someone has tried repairing it in the past as there are horrible globs of solder on the wires, I can,t find the tails coming out of the condenser so cannot get an ohm reading and obviously can't re-solder and even if I did I doubt it would work and of course the outer wax paper with the information on it is long gone so I need to try and work out what value it should be and somehow find another or modern equivalent

350TSS · 26-02-2021, 05:46 PM

Could you fit a horn from a 6v motorcycle inside the bulb at the end, something from an old British bike, or from an MZ?

Darren69 · 26-02-2021, 07:13 PM

It needs to be able to spin a toothed gear against a metal diaphragm in the horn at varying speeds in order to make the correct 'aroo-arooga' noise. There's a guy in the US called the klaxon guy who restores them so he may be able to advise on spares which he claims to have stocks of most things, if you want to google him. Restored ones appear to go for silly money though on his site!

Kato · 27-02-2021, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350TSS

Could you fit a horn from a 6v motorcycle inside the bulb at the end, something from an old British bike, or from an MZ?

Yep I could but that, but would be the easy way out and miss the point plus when it goes back onto the 1940 Thames Van it needs to be correct

Martin Duke · 27-02-2021, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kato

After a bit of messing about with the klaxon it seems the circuitry is passing current and my first observation was correct in that the two wires should connect either end of the condenser, it looks like someone has tried repairing it in the past as there are horrible globs of solder on the wires, I can,t find the tails coming out of the condenser so cannot get an ohm reading and obviously can't re-solder and even if I did I doubt it would work and of course the outer wax paper with the information on it is long gone so I need to try and work out what value it should be and somehow find another or modern equivalent

If it is a capacitor (condenser) try substituting a condenser as fitted across ignition points and see if that works. If the component is trashed then cutting it in half across its diameter will tell you what it is, or was! A capacitor will consist of a long piece of waxed paper with foil on either side, a resistor probably a card or ceramic tube filled with carbon powder, or a high power low resistance one will have a coil around the outside (like an old electric fire element) I'm more inclined to think the component in your photograph is a capacitor.

Hope this helps and good luck, Martin

Luddite · 28-02-2021, 05:06 PM

I was sure my dad had a similar example but, after rummaging around in the garage for a couple of hours, I came up empty handed. (I did find some nice, unused, 1960s vintage spotlights though, so not an entire waste of time).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren69

It needs to be able to spin a toothed gear against a metal diaphragm in the horn at varying speeds in order to make the correct 'aroo-arooga' noise.

I don't think it's a motor-driven rotary example - it looks more like a magnetically activated vibrating diaphragm model.

(Some relevant images)

The condenser will be to minimise the arcing between the contacts, much the same as in contact breaker ignition systems.

This forum thread might help. It seems a 0.5 uF 200-250V DC component might do the job.

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads...1036816/3.html

Kato · 01-03-2021, 09:41 AM

That appears to be the exact same unit great info many thanks Luddite

Going to see if I can find an original condenser as per your photo before I go for the modern equivalent

Kato · 02-03-2021, 05:11 PM

While searching or parts I came across this picture its of the same horn that I have but instead of the wax paper condenser/capacitor it has a resister, reading a little further tells me it is 3 Ohm's, OK but now to me that does not make sense as a capacitor stores electric energy in the form of charge while the Resistor limits or regulates or blocks current in the circuit.
You can see from the pic that somebody was seriously heavy on the hooter by the way it has burned the fixing material

I have some 6ohm resistors meant for LED indicators I also have a 10 Watt 3 ohm Wire wound Cement Resistor, which would be the modern equivalent of the card wound one in the picture so thinking I may try one and see what happens, just a bit nervous as the hooter is not mine and I don't want to fry the winding

slob · 02-03-2021, 05:19 PM

https://www.nutsvolts.com/questions-...y-contact-life
https://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/pd...uppression.pdf

Kato · 04-03-2021, 09:10 AM

Thanks Rob, that was useful

So a little more digging around and a bit of head scratching leads me to this logic

It's a 6 volt horn. Therefore I need a capacitor that is good for a few more volts than that since the "draw" is fairly large. 50 volts DC would be a reasonable way to start.

The capacitor is there just to prevent the points (on the vibrator) from arcing - and burning out or worse welding shut, this also tells me that using a resister will work in the same way

Given that the horn had a cap to start with that's what I'll put back finding an original wax paper one is proving very difficult been conversing via email to a guy in the US who thinks he has some but; his last mail said "give me a month or two" so I'm going to buy some modern equivalents to play with

Capacitor .5 micro-farad 50vdc. seems the logical place to start
or
Resister 3 ohm

My method will be

HONK the horn for say 10 seconds.... Then do it again a few more times... watching for a spark at the points. There shouldn't be one (or at least not very prominent.) checking the capacitor to see if it gets warm. If ANY heat build up then go with a slightly larger size, have just ordered a selection box for £8

At least I should be able to get it working while waiting for original components to show up

And I thought this was going to be a 1/2 hour job

Darren69 · 04-03-2021, 10:04 AM

There's a guy in the US (The Klaxon Man)

http://www.klaxonhorns.com/

Is that who you mean?

Kato · 04-03-2021, 10:11 AM

Yep that's him Darren at your suggestion, thanks

26-02-2021, 08:34 AM	#1
Kato Dismantled Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East Molesey Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,222	Friday Task Thought it was going to be an easy Friday however my task today is to get a wartime jeep klaxon working Never seen one before certainly never taken one apart, not even sure what voltage its expecting ? I guess 6v first thing I noticed are two wires that don't appear to e attached to anything and should I suspect go either end of what looks like a very primitive resistor, all pointers, experience, knowledge gratefully received __________________ "Political correctness is just intellectual colonialism and psychological fascism for the creation of thought crime" Last edited by Kato; 26-02-2021 at 08:55 AM..

26-02-2021, 09:22 AM	#2
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	Any good? http://www.delcoremyhistory.com/Serv...orn%201933.htm __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

26-02-2021, 09:45 AM	#3
Kato Dismantled Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East Molesey Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,222	Very useful thanks Darren __________________ "Political correctness is just intellectual colonialism and psychological fascism for the creation of thought crime"

26-02-2021, 10:51 AM	#4
Kato Dismantled Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East Molesey Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,222	After a bit of messing about with the klaxon it seems the circuitry is passing current and my first observation was correct in that the two wires should connect either end of the condenser, it looks like someone has tried repairing it in the past as there are horrible globs of solder on the wires, I can,t find the tails coming out of the condenser so cannot get an ohm reading and obviously can't re-solder and even if I did I doubt it would work and of course the outer wax paper with the information on it is long gone so I need to try and work out what value it should be and somehow find another or modern equivalent __________________ "Political correctness is just intellectual colonialism and psychological fascism for the creation of thought crime"

26-02-2021, 07:13 PM	#6
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	It needs to be able to spin a toothed gear against a metal diaphragm in the horn at varying speeds in order to make the correct 'aroo-arooga' noise. There's a guy in the US called the klaxon guy who restores them so he may be able to advise on spares which he claims to have stocks of most things, if you want to google him. Restored ones appear to go for silly money though on his site! __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

26-02-2021, 05:46 PM	#5
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	Could you fit a horn from a 6v motorcycle inside the bulb at the end, something from an old British bike, or from an MZ?

01-03-2021, 09:41 AM	#10
Kato Dismantled Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East Molesey Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,222	That appears to be the exact same unit great info many thanks Luddite Going to see if I can find an original condenser as per your photo before I go for the modern equivalent __________________ "Political correctness is just intellectual colonialism and psychological fascism for the creation of thought crime"

02-03-2021, 05:11 PM	#11
Kato Dismantled Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East Molesey Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,222	While searching or parts I came across this picture its of the same horn that I have but instead of the wax paper condenser/capacitor it has a resister, reading a little further tells me it is 3 Ohm's, OK but now to me that does not make sense as a capacitor stores electric energy in the form of charge while the Resistor limits or regulates or blocks current in the circuit. You can see from the pic that somebody was seriously heavy on the hooter by the way it has burned the fixing material I have some 6ohm resistors meant for LED indicators I also have a 10 Watt 3 ohm Wire wound Cement Resistor, which would be the modern equivalent of the card wound one in the picture so thinking I may try one and see what happens, just a bit nervous as the hooter is not mine and I don't want to fry the winding __________________ "Political correctness is just intellectual colonialism and psychological fascism for the creation of thought crime" Last edited by Kato; 02-03-2021 at 05:23 PM..

02-03-2021, 05:19 PM	#12
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,707	https://www.nutsvolts.com/questions-...y-contact-life https://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/pd...uppression.pdf

04-03-2021, 09:10 AM	#13
Kato Dismantled Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East Molesey Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,222	Thanks Rob, that was useful So a little more digging around and a bit of head scratching leads me to this logic It's a 6 volt horn. Therefore I need a capacitor that is good for a few more volts than that since the "draw" is fairly large. 50 volts DC would be a reasonable way to start. The capacitor is there just to prevent the points (on the vibrator) from arcing - and burning out or worse welding shut, this also tells me that using a resister will work in the same way Given that the horn had a cap to start with that's what I'll put back finding an original wax paper one is proving very difficult been conversing via email to a guy in the US who thinks he has some but; his last mail said "give me a month or two" so I'm going to buy some modern equivalents to play with Capacitor .5 micro-farad 50vdc. seems the logical place to start or Resister 3 ohm My method will be HONK the horn for say 10 seconds.... Then do it again a few more times... watching for a spark at the points. There shouldn't be one (or at least not very prominent.) checking the capacitor to see if it gets warm. If ANY heat build up then go with a slightly larger size, have just ordered a selection box for £8 At least I should be able to get it working while waiting for original components to show up And I thought this was going to be a 1/2 hour job __________________ "Political correctness is just intellectual colonialism and psychological fascism for the creation of thought crime" Last edited by Kato; 04-03-2021 at 09:25 AM..

04-03-2021, 10:04 AM	#14
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	There's a guy in the US (The Klaxon Man) http://www.klaxonhorns.com/ Is that who you mean? __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

04-03-2021, 10:11 AM	#15
Kato Dismantled Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East Molesey Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,222	Yep that's him Darren at your suggestion, thanks __________________ "Political correctness is just intellectual colonialism and psychological fascism for the creation of thought crime"