S4 idle issue - Page 3

slob · 01-08-2021, 10:11 PM

It’s a bit of both.
The ECU has a ‘map’ which tells the injectors how much fuel to deliver based on sensor readings for engine speed, throttle position, air pressure, temperature etc.
Flashing the ECU loads a new map. A Power commander sits between the ECU and injectors and applies preset changes to the map, so if you can flash the ECU directly the PC is effetively obsolete.
There’s still room for fine tuning (stock or modified map) either based on exhaust gas analysis or dyno readings. A basic map based on your state of tune, eg. open filter and pipes, will put the settings in the right ballpark but a full setup will almost always get you closer to ideal settings. You get what you pay for.

Terryphukwit · 02-08-2021, 06:46 AM

Thanks, so are there any trusted shops that would be recommended to do this..

Brendan S4 · 02-08-2021, 01:41 PM

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/

If you search on this Ducati forum above for ChrisW he will be able to reflash your ecu or point you in the right direction, he was a great help to me a while back regarding ecu issues.

slob · 02-08-2021, 01:44 PM

BSD in Peterborough may be able to help.
Also might be worth asking Moto Rapido (Winchester) or Steve Jordan (Woking) although Steve usually has a huge waiting list.

Terryphukwit · 02-08-2021, 08:34 PM

Thanks, I don't mind a bit of travel or spending money is fine for good results.
Pulled the plugs today after around 100 miles with the resister in, definitely rich to will back this off a bit but the ride is so much better at lower speeds, will need to be a trade somewhere.

Terryphukwit · 02-08-2021, 08:51 PM

Amazing how clean iridium plugs stay around the electrode..

Terryphukwit · 18-08-2021, 09:08 PM

Hi,still here and still cutting out,the resister trick was not a success, maybe a lucky ride or something but is now removed.Had another look today, this time looking at charging system and electrics generally, volt meter across the battery, 12.65v, start the bike and at idle im getting 14.4, rev to 3k and this drops to 13.8, you can see the headlight dim slightly, would love to know why volts is higher at tick over??
Anyway as it warms up all is ok until around 90 degree, voltage starts dropping away and idle gets erratic, at 104 the fans come on and if i dont keep the revs up it cuts out.
Following along the wiring I have cleaned all the connectors i can find, the 3a fuse for the ECU was dry and a bit corroded along with the others, these are all cleaned and refitted.
The regulator under the seat was almost glowing it was so hot, more a waffle maker than anything else, cables were also very hot,pulled it out and unplugged the wiring and the plug with 3 x wires looks burned in the connector,I have heard these get hot but surely this is not good, could it be this is causing the issue.. I have moved it now,cables are super long, it is fixed to the frame at the front of the bike in clean air, ill see if things are any better tomorrow.
Any pointers on any of this would be amazing..
Thanks..

slob · 19-08-2021, 08:58 AM

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=46708

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=58600

Terryphukwit · 19-08-2021, 08:43 PM

Thanks, I have had a read though these and tested both alternator and rectifier, all appears good, I currently believe it was simply overheating and passing no charge to the battery, this then caused a drop in power to the ECU, this then caused uneven running and when the fan takes the last bit of power it's game over.. Please let me know if I am barking at the wrong tree, I have moved the RR to the outside of the frame and bolted it to a bit of alloy plate to increase the heat sink area, today it did not stall once, clocked up a couple of hours riding and had no dodgy idle issues, I have only one issue now, where do the fans get power from, the ECU switches them on at 104 degrees, they have there own fuse but I was expecting a relay somewhere, when they come on I get a drop in idle speed, not enough to stall but significant enough to assume an issue, I need to have another look at the battery voltage when the fans come on but would not think they suck that much, could they somehow be depriving the ECU of power?? Feeling confident I am nearly there with this now..

Luddite · 19-08-2021, 09:10 PM

Looking good with the polished exhausts, Marc. If you want to replace the flexi extensions with something a bit more resilient, try the wobble-bars.

A tip for the next time you remove the tank - lubricate the o-rings on the quick release connectors. They're more likely to pop home first time and there's less likelihood of pinching or tearing the o-rings themselves.

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=58345

slob · 19-08-2021, 10:25 PM

Sounds like you're heading in the right direction, I'd replace both sides of the the connector, and any wiring that looks burnt too. I'm guessing the burnt looking insides are causing high resistance when you have more power going through it.

The S4 has a dedicated fan relay according to the wiring diagrams I have, although I don't where exactly this lives. I suspect it's next to the EFI relay on the side of the battery box.
It should be a Green&Black wire from the ECU, Green& Red to from the fusebox and Green&White feeding 12V to the fans. (MY2001, the '02 docs I have won't let me zoom on the wiring diagram)

jerry · 19-08-2021, 10:50 PM

Due to this type of Regulator overheating issue after losing 2 rr even with huge ally heatsink under seat I moved it to next to front cylinder on the left below ratiator in free airflow ,, never overheats now but its also a shindengren mosfet now so even better actually looks cool too

Terryphukwit · 20-08-2021, 02:59 PM

Great minds thinking alike here..

I have rebuilt the 3 pin lead, I'll check through the fan wiring tomorrow, thanks for the wiring colours, this will make it much easier, there are some old Scotch connectors hanging off the wireing near the ECU, they have been on the list to investigate so now may be the time..

uncle duke · 21-08-2021, 01:46 PM

Just thought i'd add to this.. when i fitted iridium plugs to my s2r it ran fine for about a week then started missing & running really badly ...refitted old plugs & it ran fine again..so just got a set of standard plugs ..probably nothing to do with your symptoms but thought i'd mention it.

Terryphukwit · 22-08-2021, 04:38 PM

So looking at the fans and wireing I can see the fans run directly from the ECU, quite strange wiring as if it didn't quite fit so Ducati extended the lead for the left hand fan, has a 4 inch length of wire with connectors both end, odd colours as well, right hand side plugs straight in and colours line in. Tested both fans for current draw, left hand was over an amp more than the right so stripped it off and pulled it apart, expecting worn brushes or a tight bearing but all ok, there is a diode and capacitor in the motor, the diode is to stop motor overrun voltage spiking back into the ECU which can cause damage to the drivers, this is leaking and burning the extra power, I have removed the diode and now the fan runs at 1.2 amps the same as the other.. iv ordered new diode and this should fix it, I can't put it back on the bike until fixed so I fitted a temporary computer fan, these have the freewheeling diodes in them, just to test with, all appeas good, fans come on without dragging the idle down.....I have been here before so not going to count any chickens yet but

19-08-2021, 10:50 PM	#42
jerry Old Git Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cricklade Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,816	Due to this type of Regulator overheating issue after losing 2 rr even with huge ally heatsink under seat I moved it to next to front cylinder on the left below ratiator in free airflow ,, never overheats now but its also a shindengren mosfet now so even better actually looks cool too __________________ MONSTERMAN

01-08-2021, 10:11 PM	#31
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	It’s a bit of both. The ECU has a ‘map’ which tells the injectors how much fuel to deliver based on sensor readings for engine speed, throttle position, air pressure, temperature etc. Flashing the ECU loads a new map. A Power commander sits between the ECU and injectors and applies preset changes to the map, so if you can flash the ECU directly the PC is effetively obsolete. There’s still room for fine tuning (stock or modified map) either based on exhaust gas analysis or dyno readings. A basic map based on your state of tune, eg. open filter and pipes, will put the settings in the right ballpark but a full setup will almost always get you closer to ideal settings. You get what you pay for.

02-08-2021, 06:46 AM	#32
Terryphukwit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Canterbury Bike: S4 Posts: 75	Thanks, so are there any trusted shops that would be recommended to do this..

02-08-2021, 01:41 PM	#33
Brendan S4 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: motherwell Bike: S4 Posts: 26	https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/ If you search on this Ducati forum above for ChrisW he will be able to reflash your ecu or point you in the right direction, he was a great help to me a while back regarding ecu issues.

02-08-2021, 01:44 PM	#34
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	BSD in Peterborough may be able to help. Also might be worth asking Moto Rapido (Winchester) or Steve Jordan (Woking) although Steve usually has a huge waiting list.

02-08-2021, 08:34 PM	#35
Terryphukwit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Canterbury Bike: S4 Posts: 75	Thanks, I don't mind a bit of travel or spending money is fine for good results. Pulled the plugs today after around 100 miles with the resister in, definitely rich to will back this off a bit but the ride is so much better at lower speeds, will need to be a trade somewhere.

02-08-2021, 08:51 PM	#36
Terryphukwit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Canterbury Bike: S4 Posts: 75	Amazing how clean iridium plugs stay around the electrode..

18-08-2021, 09:08 PM	#37
Terryphukwit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Canterbury Bike: S4 Posts: 75	Hi,still here and still cutting out,the resister trick was not a success, maybe a lucky ride or something but is now removed.Had another look today, this time looking at charging system and electrics generally, volt meter across the battery, 12.65v, start the bike and at idle im getting 14.4, rev to 3k and this drops to 13.8, you can see the headlight dim slightly, would love to know why volts is higher at tick over?? Anyway as it warms up all is ok until around 90 degree, voltage starts dropping away and idle gets erratic, at 104 the fans come on and if i dont keep the revs up it cuts out. Following along the wiring I have cleaned all the connectors i can find, the 3a fuse for the ECU was dry and a bit corroded along with the others, these are all cleaned and refitted. The regulator under the seat was almost glowing it was so hot, more a waffle maker than anything else, cables were also very hot,pulled it out and unplugged the wiring and the plug with 3 x wires looks burned in the connector,I have heard these get hot but surely this is not good, could it be this is causing the issue.. I have moved it now,cables are super long, it is fixed to the frame at the front of the bike in clean air, ill see if things are any better tomorrow. Any pointers on any of this would be amazing.. Thanks..

19-08-2021, 08:58 AM	#38
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=46708 http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=58600

19-08-2021, 08:43 PM	#39
Terryphukwit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Canterbury Bike: S4 Posts: 75	Thanks, I have had a read though these and tested both alternator and rectifier, all appears good, I currently believe it was simply overheating and passing no charge to the battery, this then caused a drop in power to the ECU, this then caused uneven running and when the fan takes the last bit of power it's game over.. Please let me know if I am barking at the wrong tree, I have moved the RR to the outside of the frame and bolted it to a bit of alloy plate to increase the heat sink area, today it did not stall once, clocked up a couple of hours riding and had no dodgy idle issues, I have only one issue now, where do the fans get power from, the ECU switches them on at 104 degrees, they have there own fuse but I was expecting a relay somewhere, when they come on I get a drop in idle speed, not enough to stall but significant enough to assume an issue, I need to have another look at the battery voltage when the fans come on but would not think they suck that much, could they somehow be depriving the ECU of power?? Feeling confident I am nearly there with this now..

19-08-2021, 09:10 PM	#40
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	Looking good with the polished exhausts, Marc. If you want to replace the flexi extensions with something a bit more resilient, try the wobble-bars. A tip for the next time you remove the tank - lubricate the o-rings on the quick release connectors. They're more likely to pop home first time and there's less likelihood of pinching or tearing the o-rings themselves. http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=58345

19-08-2021, 10:25 PM	#41
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,710	Sounds like you're heading in the right direction, I'd replace both sides of the the connector, and any wiring that looks burnt too. I'm guessing the burnt looking insides are causing high resistance when you have more power going through it. The S4 has a dedicated fan relay according to the wiring diagrams I have, although I don't where exactly this lives. I suspect it's next to the EFI relay on the side of the battery box. It should be a Green&Black wire from the ECU, Green& Red to from the fusebox and Green&White feeding 12V to the fans. (MY2001, the '02 docs I have won't let me zoom on the wiring diagram)

20-08-2021, 02:59 PM	#43
Terryphukwit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Canterbury Bike: S4 Posts: 75	Great minds thinking alike here.. I have rebuilt the 3 pin lead, I'll check through the fan wiring tomorrow, thanks for the wiring colours, this will make it much easier, there are some old Scotch connectors hanging off the wireing near the ECU, they have been on the list to investigate so now may be the time..

21-08-2021, 01:46 PM	#44
uncle duke Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: ipswich Bike: S2r 1000 Posts: 138	Just thought i'd add to this.. when i fitted iridium plugs to my s2r it ran fine for about a week then started missing & running really badly ...refitted old plugs & it ran fine again..so just got a set of standard plugs ..probably nothing to do with your symptoms but thought i'd mention it.

22-08-2021, 04:38 PM	#45
Terryphukwit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Canterbury Bike: S4 Posts: 75	So looking at the fans and wireing I can see the fans run directly from the ECU, quite strange wiring as if it didn't quite fit so Ducati extended the lead for the left hand fan, has a 4 inch length of wire with connectors both end, odd colours as well, right hand side plugs straight in and colours line in. Tested both fans for current draw, left hand was over an amp more than the right so stripped it off and pulled it apart, expecting worn brushes or a tight bearing but all ok, there is a diode and capacitor in the motor, the diode is to stop motor overrun voltage spiking back into the ECU which can cause damage to the drivers, this is leaking and burning the extra power, I have removed the diode and now the fan runs at 1.2 amps the same as the other.. iv ordered new diode and this should fix it, I can't put it back on the bike until fixed so I fitted a temporary computer fan, these have the freewheeling diodes in them, just to test with, all appeas good, fans come on without dragging the idle down.....I have been here before so not going to count any chickens yet but