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20-06-2019, 09:33 AM | #31 | |
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Quote:
As for the second point, it's kind of true, but that's what rebound damping is supposed to control. Reading this thread it seems that emphasis is perhaps being put on certain elements of suspension setup and not considering the combined effects of the actual equipment and how it's setup as a whole. |
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20-06-2019, 10:26 AM | #32 |
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Sorry, but I disagree completely, if you have no static sag you are compromising the bikes ability to use its suspension safely, believe me, you do not want your bikes suspension topping out when the suspension goes light when you are at speed etc.
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20-06-2019, 10:32 AM | #33 | |
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Sorry Bob, but having been involved in racing myself and helping others with bike setups, builds etc, you NEED static sag, it suspends the weight of the bike before the rider gets on. If you have no static sag on the front of the bike it will be nose high, will not corner correctly etc etc, really it will just run you off the road. Dont take my word for it give Maxton, K-Tech, Ohlins, Wilbers etc a ring and ask them. |
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20-06-2019, 10:53 AM | #34 |
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Having no static sag does not mean your bike will definitely top out, unless the bike is riding itself around. Is it?
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20-06-2019, 11:06 AM | #35 | |
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As per one of my last posts, I think what's happening here is that people are hanging on to snippets of information they've got about elements of suspension setup without necessarily considering the role they play in the overall setup, or the effects that other parts of the setup have on them. It was just a question though (about why people think static sag is relevant). It'll be interesting to get the views of all those people you mention, but no doubt there will be differences of opinion from them too. EDIT: Plus it's important to note when we're discussing this, I refer to 'static sag' as the amount the bike suspension sinks under its own weight with no rider, and 'rider sag' as the amount it sinks with you on it. I get the impression that the terminology is being mixed up. Last edited by Uncle Bob; 20-06-2019 at 12:41 PM.. |
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20-06-2019, 12:45 PM | #36 | ||||
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I'm in no way (and certainly wouldn't profess to be) a suspension expert. I rely on proven experts like the two I've quoted above if I want to know anything. So a few words on their qualifications...
Niall Mackenzie is a successful former racer with 7 500GP podiums and 3 BSB championships. He has a wealth of experience on a wide range of machines under a wide range of conditions. Tony Foale is a professional engineer, Bachelor of Technology and Master of Engineering Science. Sometimes, when a person is an acknowledged expert on something, people say "Oh, he wrote the book on that". Well, when it comes to motorcycle suspension and chassis design, Tony Foale actually DID write the book on that! (Check out his website https://motochassis.com/ there's a lot of useful information and interesting articles there.) When people with that experience and those qualifications say the same thing, I tend to believe them. Quote:
(on the rear shock), under heavy braking when all weight is transferred to the front (at both ends), going over a rise in the road like a hump-back bridge (at both ends), dropping into a hollow or pothole Quote:
Better to minimize the topping-out by setting the correct sag than masking the problem with excessive damping. Quote:
" The static loaded position of the suspension is closer to the rebound stops, and so there is less suspension movement available before topping-out. So that occurs more often." Quote:
While suspension experts like the one Mossleymonster visited will no doubt be able to set the correct dynamic sag without also checking the static sag, the fact that they haven't checked it doesn't mean there isn't any or that it's not important to the overall set-up. I would still recommend that the home twiddler, without the experts' training and experience, still checks both figures to ensure that the final set-up is correct. |
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20-06-2019, 01:07 PM | #37 |
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Here is a link to the Ohlins suspension setup booklet. Very simple and easy to follow.
This is the rule of thumb I use in setting up my road and in the past my race bikes, along with other information collected from Chris at K-Tech etc. https://www.sscycle.com/docs/default...l.pdf?sfvrsn=0 Last edited by chris.p; 20-06-2019 at 01:10 PM.. |
20-06-2019, 02:09 PM | #38 | |
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So what I'm saying is, instead of thinking of it as 10mm static + 26mm rider, the adjustment method is the same i.e. wind off a bit of preload, therefore isn't it the same as basically 36mm rider sag? Because ultimately where the bike rests in its travel is one of the crucial parts of this. Guys, the fundamental question here is: What is the point of static sag? The inference being that it's just an 'extension' of rider sag. In other words, where your suspension rests in its travel with you sitting on it, and therefore surely the most important measurement. I think this is probably what mossleymonster's sus guys were hinting at. It's interesting. And let's not forget that the term 'correct' in the context of suspension can be quite subjective. I mean, if it tops out, bottoms out, dives, squats etc. it's obviously not 'correct', but beyond that it's about feel. |
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20-06-2019, 02:26 PM | #39 | |
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The way they describe it, setting up the suspension unweighted (static sag) is important for setting the geometry of the bike as a starting point. Although obviously as soon as you sit on it that all goes completely out of the window if the other parts of the system are wrong! Usefully, they go into detail about how to get those other bits 'right' too. |
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20-06-2019, 02:34 PM | #40 |
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Searching the rest of the interweb for answers has led me to this thread:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...f=74&t=1497711 Very interesting reading! |
20-06-2019, 03:38 PM | #41 | |
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20-06-2019, 04:50 PM | #42 | |
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21-06-2019, 10:14 AM | #43 |
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set My two penneth, I've had the static sag several times by, the guy who owns the shop where it came from, he rides motorcross. Teut Wien in Preston, he does all the suspension for one of the national short circuit series. Maxton set my forks up on their dyno. Finally by Daz at Mick Gardner racing set the bike up with me on it.
It's better now than it's ever been.
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Always remember. Your home is at risk if you set fire to it. Last edited by Mossleymonster; 21-06-2019 at 02:47 PM.. |
22-06-2019, 09:12 AM | #44 |
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Am pleased we got that sorted 😉
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