Flaming RR51

Nasher · 22-04-2019, 11:15 PM

Can’t believe I nearly lost the old Girl this evening.

What is left of the Electrix World RR51 that was fitted to my 97 M900:

Having spent most of the last two days fixing my sons Tiguan I finally got the chance for a quick run out on the M900.

I only got a few miles up the road when I thought I caught a glimpse of a flickering red light on the dash, I stopped, couldn’t see anything amiss and had no red light, but headed for home anyway just in case.

About 3 miles from home on a duel Carriageway section of the A3 just before I was due to come off at the slipway the Charging light came on, the bike started to lose power and pop and bang, then the engine cut out altogether.

As I coasted to a halt on the side of the road I was enveloped by a cloud of smoke which smelt horrible.

I turned the ignition off, jumped off and saw quite large flames coming from under the headstock.
My first reaction was to rip my helmet off and try to blow the flames out, which of course was useless, every time I blew them out the red hot hole in the top of the Reg/Rec reignited with a spark.

Next I tried to smother the flames with my hankie, but just succeeded in burning a couple of fingers.
I blew the flames out a couple more times before I remembered the RR51 is connected directly to the battery by the charging wires, so whipped out my penknife and cut the +ve feed to the battery which was easily accessible.
Next time I blew the flames out they stayed out. Fhew!

My next thought was how long I was going to have to wait for the AA, and could I push it the few miles home which was mainly going to be uphill, but then thought I could disconnect the input charging wires to the RR51, plus the other wires, try to start it, then get the couple of miles home on what power was left in the battery.

I disconnected and cut all the wires, the ignition came on OK but the starter sounded like it was just spinning in fresh air and not turning the motor over.
Just as I was thinking about how this could be connected a fire engine turned up with it’s Blue lights flashing, blocked the inside lane of the road and one of the firemen explained a passing motorist had called 999.

They were happy I’d put the fire out, but wanted me off the side of the road as quickly as possible.
I told them I thought I could ride it home if I could get it started, but they didn’t believe me saying it would never run.

Not wanting to waste any battery power on trying the starter motor again I thought I’d bump start it as I was facing downhill.
The firemen agreed to let me have a go, so took my details, I thanked them and pushed off down the hill.
It started immediately and ticked over nicely, so I waved to the firemen, I’m sure I saw them shaking their heads, and got home OK.

Nasher · 22-04-2019, 11:16 PM

Once home the first thing I did was take the battery out, then remove what you see above.

The flames have damaged the front of the airbox, and also bubbled up the paint on the frame, so some extra work required there.

I should have tried the starter motor again, but was too eager to get the battery disconnected, and now of course am wondering if the Sprag clutch has failed and somehow caused overcharging which has wreaked the RR51, although I can’t think how that could happen.

It will be a long day at work tomorrow whilst I’ll be desperate to get home and have another look at the bike.
I want to connect the battery up and check the started motor, and will do some research on what to replace the RR51 with.

I’m not impressed as the one on the bike when I brought it gave up charging 2.5yrs ago and despite what I’d read about their quality I replaced it with the one that has now gone up in flames.

I’ll probably go for a ‘Kato’ Charging system as:
http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=46708
But need to satisfy myself first that I can make it work with the 2-wire charging coils fitted to my bike.

And that starter motor, I need to get the battery back on the bike and try it.
I’ve got our monthly management meeting tomorrow, otherwise I’d be very tempted to pull a sickie!

Nasher.

350TSS · 23-04-2019, 02:17 AM

Everybody's worst nightmare, luckily not a total loss, but a shame about the collateral damage. Smart thinking to cut the wire to the rectifier and fortunate you had a penknife on you and readily accessible.
Keep us posted with diagnosis of cause and repair method.

Jez900ie · 23-04-2019, 07:24 AM

Quick thinking and fast reactions saved the day! That you were able to then ride home after all that did bring a smile to my face.

Good luck with getting it all sorted. I did the Kato reccomended changes just after I bought my Monster, having heard similar stories to yours without the happy ending. Its worked perfectly ever since.

Blah blah · 23-04-2019, 07:28 AM

Scary stuff, glad it wasn't any worse.

Perhaps a call to 'electrix'?

When I replaced the sprag, I got it from Ducati (that and the problems getting the right starter wheel thing are what took me over the edge) - there are threads out there about replacing the spring around it that supposidly fixes it (including one of mine !), but it doesn't.

Nasher · 23-04-2019, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blah blah

Scary stuff, glad it wasn't any worse.

Perhaps a call to 'electrix'?

.

Thanks all.

Oh and yes, Electrix will get in the office this morning to an email from me with the images above.

Nasher.

350TSS · 23-04-2019, 09:18 AM

Would a fuse between the rectifier and the battery have prevented this?

damien666 · 23-04-2019, 09:24 AM

Phew, lucky escape!
On a lighter note, it’s a good job you don’t have a lithium battery fitted. Over on the ducati forum uk forum, you’d never have heard the last of it!

Darkness · 23-04-2019, 09:58 AM

Glad the bike came through it largely unscathed, and hope your fingers aren’t too sore this morning.
Let us know which bits are scorched as there are probably suitable bits lying under benches.
I think I’ve a spare air box if you want one?

Nasher · 23-04-2019, 12:28 PM

darkness

Hi.

Thanks very much.
I have a spare airbox laying around, so OK there, and can rub down and paint the frame tube.

I'm more annoyed that I'm going to have to spend time sourcing parts and fixing it when I should be out riding it.

Nasher.

Nasher · 23-04-2019, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350TSS

Would a fuse between the rectifier and the battery have prevented this?

That's been covered on here, or possibly somewhere else, before.

Electrix specifically say not to add one. Not sure why, but it would probably have helped yesterday.

Nasher.

utopia · 23-04-2019, 01:21 PM

That's bad luck Nasher, particularly at this time of the year when a summer full of riding stretches ahead.
But I guess it could have been worse.

I'm drawn towards thinking that the starter sprag failure is likely to be linked.
Maybe there has been some damage to the alternator as a result ?
And perhaps that resulted in overcharging and thence overloading of the reg/rec.
Here's a short vid that I found which may be helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CiMH_KscV0

But on another tack ...
What's the condition of the usual culprit .. the yellow wire connections from alternator to reg/rec ?

Nasher · 23-04-2019, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utopia

I'm drawn towards thinking that the starter sprag failure is likely to be linked.
Maybe there has been some damage to the alternator as a result ?
And perhaps that resulted in overcharging and thence overloading of the reg/rec.
Here's a short vid that I found which may be helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CiMH_KscV0

But on another tack ...
What's the condition of the usual culprit .. the yellow wire connections from alternator to reg/rec ?

Thanks Utopia

I'm desperate to get this work day thing out the way and get home to see if the starter works, I was maybe mishearing it's reaction at the side of the busy road.
I also think that at the time I tried it the battery may have been shorted by the burnt our RR51, so it could also have been that.

The two yellow wires from the alternator and their connectors are in fine condition having previously been replaced by me with heavy duty connectors a while back.

Nasher

Nasher · 23-04-2019, 03:36 PM

I did post this on Kato’s thread, but has anyone come up with a decent replacement for the Single Phase, Two Wire, Reg/Rec which will still operate the Charging idiot Light?
The Shindengen FH012AA or FH020AA MOSFET controlled device doesn’t appear to support a charging warning lamp.

I really don’t want to buy another RR51, and don’t want to put a standard one on the Old Girl, but do like the idea of a warning lamp.

Thanks

Nasher.

350TSS · 23-04-2019, 07:31 PM

You could put a volt meter in which I think is more use than a light which only tells you if the alternator/rectifier is not working rather than also telling you that it is wrong side failing and boiling the battery

22-04-2019, 11:15 PM	#1
Nasher Registered User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Portsmouth Bike: M900 Posts: 1,518	Flaming RR51 Can’t believe I nearly lost the old Girl this evening. What is left of the Electrix World RR51 that was fitted to my 97 M900: Having spent most of the last two days fixing my sons Tiguan I finally got the chance for a quick run out on the M900. I only got a few miles up the road when I thought I caught a glimpse of a flickering red light on the dash, I stopped, couldn’t see anything amiss and had no red light, but headed for home anyway just in case. About 3 miles from home on a duel Carriageway section of the A3 just before I was due to come off at the slipway the Charging light came on, the bike started to lose power and pop and bang, then the engine cut out altogether. As I coasted to a halt on the side of the road I was enveloped by a cloud of smoke which smelt horrible. I turned the ignition off, jumped off and saw quite large flames coming from under the headstock. My first reaction was to rip my helmet off and try to blow the flames out, which of course was useless, every time I blew them out the red hot hole in the top of the Reg/Rec reignited with a spark. Next I tried to smother the flames with my hankie, but just succeeded in burning a couple of fingers. I blew the flames out a couple more times before I remembered the RR51 is connected directly to the battery by the charging wires, so whipped out my penknife and cut the +ve feed to the battery which was easily accessible. Next time I blew the flames out they stayed out. Fhew! My next thought was how long I was going to have to wait for the AA, and could I push it the few miles home which was mainly going to be uphill, but then thought I could disconnect the input charging wires to the RR51, plus the other wires, try to start it, then get the couple of miles home on what power was left in the battery. I disconnected and cut all the wires, the ignition came on OK but the starter sounded like it was just spinning in fresh air and not turning the motor over. Just as I was thinking about how this could be connected a fire engine turned up with it’s Blue lights flashing, blocked the inside lane of the road and one of the firemen explained a passing motorist had called 999. They were happy I’d put the fire out, but wanted me off the side of the road as quickly as possible. I told them I thought I could ride it home if I could get it started, but they didn’t believe me saying it would never run. Not wanting to waste any battery power on trying the starter motor again I thought I’d bump start it as I was facing downhill. The firemen agreed to let me have a go, so took my details, I thanked them and pushed off down the hill. It started immediately and ticked over nicely, so I waved to the firemen, I’m sure I saw them shaking their heads, and got home OK. __________________ Heaven doesn't want me, and Hell is afraid I'll take over.

22-04-2019, 11:16 PM	#2
Nasher Registered User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Portsmouth Bike: M900 Posts: 1,518	Once home the first thing I did was take the battery out, then remove what you see above. The flames have damaged the front of the airbox, and also bubbled up the paint on the frame, so some extra work required there. I should have tried the starter motor again, but was too eager to get the battery disconnected, and now of course am wondering if the Sprag clutch has failed and somehow caused overcharging which has wreaked the RR51, although I can’t think how that could happen. It will be a long day at work tomorrow whilst I’ll be desperate to get home and have another look at the bike. I want to connect the battery up and check the started motor, and will do some research on what to replace the RR51 with. I’m not impressed as the one on the bike when I brought it gave up charging 2.5yrs ago and despite what I’d read about their quality I replaced it with the one that has now gone up in flames. I’ll probably go for a ‘Kato’ Charging system as: http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=46708 But need to satisfy myself first that I can make it work with the 2-wire charging coils fitted to my bike. And that starter motor, I need to get the battery back on the bike and try it. I’ve got our monthly management meeting tomorrow, otherwise I’d be very tempted to pull a sickie! Nasher. __________________ Heaven doesn't want me, and Hell is afraid I'll take over.

23-04-2019, 07:24 AM	#4
Jez900ie Pleasantly surprised! Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Stoke on Trent Bike: M900ie Posts: 780	Quick thinking and fast reactions saved the day! That you were able to then ride home after all that did bring a smile to my face. Good luck with getting it all sorted. I did the Kato reccomended changes just after I bought my Monster, having heard similar stories to yours without the happy ending. Its worked perfectly ever since. __________________ Monsters don't hide under the bed, they sleep inside the shed

23-04-2019, 07:28 AM	#5
Blah blah Upsetting normal people.. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Portreath Bike: S2r Posts: 833	Scary stuff, glad it wasn't any worse. Perhaps a call to 'electrix'? When I replaced the sprag, I got it from Ducati (that and the problems getting the right starter wheel thing are what took me over the edge) - there are threads out there about replacing the spring around it that supposidly fixes it (including one of mine !), but it doesn't. __________________ Power is nothing without control... I have neither !

23-04-2019, 09:58 AM	#9
Darkness . Join Date: May 2007 Location: Stockbridge Bike: M900 Posts: 1,984	Glad the bike came through it largely unscathed, and hope your fingers aren’t too sore this morning. Let us know which bits are scorched as there are probably suitable bits lying under benches. I think I’ve a spare air box if you want one? __________________ Original and Best since 1993

23-04-2019, 02:17 AM	#3
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Everybody's worst nightmare, luckily not a total loss, but a shame about the collateral damage. Smart thinking to cut the wire to the rectifier and fortunate you had a penknife on you and readily accessible. Keep us posted with diagnosis of cause and repair method.

23-04-2019, 09:18 AM	#7
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Would a fuse between the rectifier and the battery have prevented this?

23-04-2019, 09:24 AM	#8
damien666 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Leeds, West-Yorks Bike: S4Rs Posts: 497	Phew, lucky escape! On a lighter note, it’s a good job you don’t have a lithium battery fitted. Over on the ducati forum uk forum, you’d never have heard the last of it!

23-04-2019, 12:28 PM	#10
Nasher Registered User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Portsmouth Bike: M900 Posts: 1,518	darkness Hi. Thanks very much. I have a spare airbox laying around, so OK there, and can rub down and paint the frame tube. I'm more annoyed that I'm going to have to spend time sourcing parts and fixing it when I should be out riding it. Nasher. __________________ Heaven doesn't want me, and Hell is afraid I'll take over.

23-04-2019, 01:21 PM	#12
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,559	That's bad luck Nasher, particularly at this time of the year when a summer full of riding stretches ahead. But I guess it could have been worse. I'm drawn towards thinking that the starter sprag failure is likely to be linked. Maybe there has been some damage to the alternator as a result ? And perhaps that resulted in overcharging and thence overloading of the reg/rec. Here's a short vid that I found which may be helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CiMH_KscV0 But on another tack ... What's the condition of the usual culprit .. the yellow wire connections from alternator to reg/rec ?

23-04-2019, 03:36 PM	#14
Nasher Registered User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Portsmouth Bike: M900 Posts: 1,518	I did post this on Kato’s thread, but has anyone come up with a decent replacement for the Single Phase, Two Wire, Reg/Rec which will still operate the Charging idiot Light? The Shindengen FH012AA or FH020AA MOSFET controlled device doesn’t appear to support a charging warning lamp. I really don’t want to buy another RR51, and don’t want to put a standard one on the Old Girl, but do like the idea of a warning lamp. Thanks Nasher. __________________ Heaven doesn't want me, and Hell is afraid I'll take over.

23-04-2019, 07:31 PM	#15
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	You could put a volt meter in which I think is more use than a light which only tells you if the alternator/rectifier is not working rather than also telling you that it is wrong side failing and boiling the battery