Hello from the North West - Page 3

29-03-2015, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren69

.... Bargain 1199 Panigale anyone?

I'd have preferred a Panigale but just struggle with sportsbikes these days, they've offered me a test ride on one which I'm intending to take them up on, hope I don't like it or I may 'need' one of those as well!

Dirty · 29-03-2015, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDCobra

I'd have preferred a Panigale but just struggle with sportsbikes these days, they've offered me a test ride on one which I'm intending to take them up on, hope I don't like it or I may 'need' one of those as well!

I need a Panigale. Will have to get back to work first though!

04-04-2015, 01:08 PM

Well I picked up the Monster on Friday but I must admit that I'm currently not exactly blown away by it.

I know it's early days but I'm just not 'feeling the love' right now. Due to weather and other issues today is the first chance I've had to ride it only to find that it is afflicted by very poor constant speed running it, jerking about beneath me, it is just not a satisfying place to be, I know I'm opening myself up to a tirade of abuse from those who think this is more my fault than the bike's but I'm just telling like it is. I can see I'm now going to end up spending more money getting this bike to behave how I want it to and/or other only keep it for a short time.

Oh well, you live and learn I guess.

08-04-2015, 09:00 PM

Well I've been out a few more times over the past few days and it's growing on me a bit more (well a lot more really) the bike has so many other positive points which are getting my focus now, handling, braking, power delivery and so on however I still think I'm going to have to address the steady speed fuelling (which I suspect the problem is) hopefully it is possible to remove the O2 sensors and trick out the ECU to accept them not being there but at least now I want to.

steeevvvooo · 09-04-2015, 07:23 AM

many monsters (and some other bikes) have poor fuelling from the factory. You can go the standard route of powercommander and set up, or what a lot of us have done on older monsters is get someone like BSD to reprogram your ECU. From memory it was under £500 and for that you get a custom map (it is much more specific to your bike than a powercommander is apparently). It transformed my old S2R1000, gave it more power.

not sure if they have "cracked" the 1200 yet? Also I believe CJS offer a similar service and there may be others closer to you.

J.P · 09-04-2015, 07:46 AM

Fueling can be a problem with that immense engine, it certainly was in the first generation when they stuck it in my Mutistrada 1200. Trying to please all the people (European law) and riders is a nightmare. Hence I went for an 821.

Spend £500 getting it remapped at BSD (if they do it yet, they don't on the 821), or the like. Forget power commander. The remap will turn off the 02 sensors anyway.

Plus you've got a fantastic engine, that really hates low speed, might be worth looking at changing the front sprocket down one tooth, very common change to the monsters.

Let us know how you get on and we can offer help if needed. I've had 4 Ducati's remapped so can testify to the difference it makes.

09-04-2015, 12:13 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. I agree with what you say, this is a situation which is partly due to emission controls and partly due to the corners which motorcycle companies cut in order to meet them.

To get the emission in spec' the ECU is programmed to run the engine lean during certain conditions, manufacturers achieve this (and I'm making assumptions about Ducati here as I don't know too much about them yet) by using a narrowband O2 sensor, presumably to cut costs, this can only work at one specific AFR (14.7:1) hence the reason for only using closed loop under lean and constant throttle conditions, due to the nature of the narrowband output the ECU has to use an iterative "blind man with a white stick" routine to get the correct AFR which is what gives the surging felt in the power delivery. What makes this worse is that when the power surges in the rider will subconsciously wind off some throttle and the reverse when power surges out, then the "hunting" cycle will start again.
Over the last few rides I've been concentrating on holding the throttle constant during this type of riding and I think this is one reason why it has got better.

On previous bikes I've had it was possible to run an "Adaption cycle" this is a cycle which allows the system to calibrate itself so that it should get the correct (or very close to) value immediately it wants to run at 14.7 and so the 'hunting' cycle is reduced (until you alter the hardware), I don't know with Ducati's system but obviously this is the first/cheapest thing to correct.

The other thing I was able to do was disconnect the O2 sensors and modify the ECU program to not issue a CEL due to them being missing, the other way is to replace them with a resistor. When this is done the system 'sees' the correct fueling value as soon as it goes into closed loop so again the surging is reduced/removed although you are still running lean so the engine feels a little flat.
From some things I've read it seems this is not quite so simple on the Ducati (although that information was related to a Multistrada which may not use the same system, I don't know)

Obviously the best solution is to re-map but after already spending a 5 figure sum on this bike I don't really want so spend more money getting a standard bike to run right. If I decide to change the pipe (and the jury's out on that at the moment) then this would make more sense.
I'm going to run it for a few more miles and see if we learn to live with each other during the run-in period.

I did see a post on here some time ago where someone mentioned the same problem during a test ride and one (fairly unhelpful) reply was "Why don't you go and buy a S1000R then?" well the only answer I can give to that is "NOOOOOO", I test rode one of these last year and the fueling was so bad I ended up dropping the thing while trying to make a RH turn into a junction, engine stalled just as I tipped in. I've heard of other people having problems and the response from BMW seems to be "You're just not riding it right", while we accept that kind of garbage we will get unacceptable bikes IMO.

09-04-2015, 07:46 AM	#36
J.P No more Monster... Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London Bike: Other Not a Ducati Posts: 4,326	Fueling can be a problem with that immense engine, it certainly was in the first generation when they stuck it in my Mutistrada 1200. Trying to please all the people (European law) and riders is a nightmare. Hence I went for an 821. Spend £500 getting it remapped at BSD (if they do it yet, they don't on the 821), or the like. Forget power commander. The remap will turn off the 02 sensors anyway. Plus you've got a fantastic engine, that really hates low speed, might be worth looking at changing the front sprocket down one tooth, very common change to the monsters. Let us know how you get on and we can offer help if needed. I've had 4 Ducati's remapped so can testify to the difference it makes. __________________ J.JP ------------------------------- My Mum says, there's no such thing as Monsters.

04-04-2015, 01:08 PM	#33
GDCobra Guest Posts: n/a	Well I picked up the Monster on Friday but I must admit that I'm currently not exactly blown away by it. I know it's early days but I'm just not 'feeling the love' right now. Due to weather and other issues today is the first chance I've had to ride it only to find that it is afflicted by very poor constant speed running it, jerking about beneath me, it is just not a satisfying place to be, I know I'm opening myself up to a tirade of abuse from those who think this is more my fault than the bike's but I'm just telling like it is. I can see I'm now going to end up spending more money getting this bike to behave how I want it to and/or other only keep it for a short time. Oh well, you live and learn I guess.

08-04-2015, 09:00 PM	#34
GDCobra Guest Posts: n/a	Well I've been out a few more times over the past few days and it's growing on me a bit more (well a lot more really) the bike has so many other positive points which are getting my focus now, handling, braking, power delivery and so on however I still think I'm going to have to address the steady speed fuelling (which I suspect the problem is) hopefully it is possible to remove the O2 sensors and trick out the ECU to accept them not being there but at least now I want to.

09-04-2015, 07:23 AM	#35
steeevvvooo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bromley Bike: M1100evo Posts: 1,512	many monsters (and some other bikes) have poor fuelling from the factory. You can go the standard route of powercommander and set up, or what a lot of us have done on older monsters is get someone like BSD to reprogram your ECU. From memory it was under £500 and for that you get a custom map (it is much more specific to your bike than a powercommander is apparently). It transformed my old S2R1000, gave it more power. not sure if they have "cracked" the 1200 yet? Also I believe CJS offer a similar service and there may be others closer to you.

09-04-2015, 12:13 PM	#37
GDCobra Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks for the replies guys. I agree with what you say, this is a situation which is partly due to emission controls and partly due to the corners which motorcycle companies cut in order to meet them. To get the emission in spec' the ECU is programmed to run the engine lean during certain conditions, manufacturers achieve this (and I'm making assumptions about Ducati here as I don't know too much about them yet) by using a narrowband O2 sensor, presumably to cut costs, this can only work at one specific AFR (14.7:1) hence the reason for only using closed loop under lean and constant throttle conditions, due to the nature of the narrowband output the ECU has to use an iterative "blind man with a white stick" routine to get the correct AFR which is what gives the surging felt in the power delivery. What makes this worse is that when the power surges in the rider will subconsciously wind off some throttle and the reverse when power surges out, then the "hunting" cycle will start again. Over the last few rides I've been concentrating on holding the throttle constant during this type of riding and I think this is one reason why it has got better. On previous bikes I've had it was possible to run an "Adaption cycle" this is a cycle which allows the system to calibrate itself so that it should get the correct (or very close to) value immediately it wants to run at 14.7 and so the 'hunting' cycle is reduced (until you alter the hardware), I don't know with Ducati's system but obviously this is the first/cheapest thing to correct. The other thing I was able to do was disconnect the O2 sensors and modify the ECU program to not issue a CEL due to them being missing, the other way is to replace them with a resistor. When this is done the system 'sees' the correct fueling value as soon as it goes into closed loop so again the surging is reduced/removed although you are still running lean so the engine feels a little flat. From some things I've read it seems this is not quite so simple on the Ducati (although that information was related to a Multistrada which may not use the same system, I don't know) Obviously the best solution is to re-map but after already spending a 5 figure sum on this bike I don't really want so spend more money getting a standard bike to run right. If I decide to change the pipe (and the jury's out on that at the moment) then this would make more sense. I'm going to run it for a few more miles and see if we learn to live with each other during the run-in period. I did see a post on here some time ago where someone mentioned the same problem during a test ride and one (fairly unhelpful) reply was "Why don't you go and buy a S1000R then?" well the only answer I can give to that is "NOOOOOO", I test rode one of these last year and the fueling was so bad I ended up dropping the thing while trying to make a RH turn into a junction, engine stalled just as I tipped in. I've heard of other people having problems and the response from BMW seems to be "You're just not riding it right", while we accept that kind of garbage we will get unacceptable bikes IMO.