LED indicators flashing too fast

I've just fitted a set of Rizoma Zero indicators at the rear. They look real neat with the tail chop. I've kept the standard indicators, for now anyway. I was hoping it woudn't flash too fast with the standard bulbs up front, but it does. My question is this. Can I fit the relay to slow it down whilst having a mix of LEDs and regular bulbs, or do I now have to fit LEDs to the front too, so as to maintain equal elctrical load on the relay?
Cheers, Paul

If you mean keeping the standard flashers at the front, then yes it will work...no problem

[Capo]

The relay is integrated into the instrument cluster.
You need to fit resistors to the LED indicators

The speed the relay cycles at depends on the load. Generally relays are made for either all bulb or all LED setups. If you want to run a combined setup then you will have to run an all bulb relay and introduce a suitable inline wirewound resistor to compensate. The formula is V=IR where V = volts, I = current in amps and R= resistance in ohms.

A multi meter is handy and you can get all the bits from Maplins.

[emily's driver]

Originally Posted by SimonH

The speed the relay cycles at depends on the load. Generally relays are made for either all bulb or all LED setups. If you want to run a combined setup then you will have to run an all bulb relay and introduce a suitable inline wirewound resistor to compensate. The formula is V=IR where V = volts, I = current in amps and R= resistance in ohms.

A multi meter is handy and you can get all the bits from Maplins.

Simon, a word in your shell like. You seem like a bit of an electrical guru. I recently bought some yellow LED indicator bulbs for my Monster to sit under clear lenses and when fitted only the left side flashes (too fast) and the right side won't work at all. Bought a specific LED relay from the suppliers but I cannot wire it in to the system as the relay is on the PCB within the instrument cluster. Is there another way around it. Hein Gericke tried to sell me individual relays for each indicator but at £12 each, I was a little reluctant to buy them unless I am sure they would work. I am stll perplexed as to why only one side should flash and one not. Gave up in the end and put the OE (well amber) bulbs back in. There is obviously current getting to the right hand indicators else they would not work when you select them at the switch. Any ideas mate?

Originally Posted by emily's driver

Simon, a word in your shell like. You seem like a bit of an electrical guru. I recently bought some yellow LED indicator bulbs for my Monster to sit under clear lenses and when fitted only the left side flashes (too fast) and the right side won't work at all. Bought a specific LED relay from the suppliers but I cannot wire it in to the system as the relay is on the PCB within the instrument cluster. Is there another way around it. Hein Gericke tried to sell me individual relays for each indicator but at £12 each, I was a little reluctant to buy them unless I am sure they would work. I am stll perplexed as to why only one side should flash and one not. Gave up in the end and put the OE (well amber) bulbs back in. There is obviously current getting to the right hand indicators else they would not work when you select them at the switch. Any ideas mate?

I got these from streetfighter, easy to fit just plug in.

http://www.streetfighterstore.com/ac...fo%5f28%2ehtml


To buy go here> http://www.streetfighterstore.com/ac...al_Offers.html
at bottom of page. (£6.80+vat for 4).

Darry.

[emily's driver]

Originally Posted by Darry

I got these from streetfighter, easy to fit just plug in.

http://www.streetfighterstore.com/ac...fo%5f28%2ehtml


To buy go here> http://www.streetfighterstore.com/ac...al_Offers.html
at bottom of page. (£6.80+vat for 4).

Darry.

Thanks Darry. Silly question but I assume they worked OK on your bike. I still dont understand why when fitted only one side will work though. But at that price I guess it is worth the risk. Cheers for the info.

[Capo]

If want to go the resistor method it's pretty simple.

The flasher units require this draw current for the timing circuit, so basically you just want to shed off the same amount of power that would normally be taken by the incandescent globes, i.e. 10watts per indicator globe.

So, to get rid of 10 watts in a 13.8V system...

V=IxR hence I=V/R
P=VxI, so with a bit of substitution
P=V2/R, hence R=V2/P

Put in our figures and
R=13.8x13.8/10=19 ohms or for ease of purchase 22ohm should be fine (8.7watts).

So if you hook this in parallel with the light you'll now draw away the 10W the light use to.
As for power rating, a 10W resistor should not have any problems. Although you will be drawing 10 watts of power, it should only be at around a 50% duty cycle and hence won’t build up as much heat in the resistor.

If you're a bit more adventurous you can just put the one resistor across the output of the flasher unit. Around 19ohms for one pair of indicators replaced or halve the resistance (twice the current therefore twice the power) and double the power rating for both front and back replaced.

I'm still intrigued by why ED's 'cators won't work on one side....

Is there a power munching gremlin asleep somewhere in the wiring???

Confused (but that's easily done) of Benson-shire....

Almost certainly the reason for the indicators working on one side only is polarity. LED's are diodes which are devices which permit current to travel in one direction only. In fact the "light emmitting" bit is an accident of history. Light bulbs are not sensitive to polarity (which is why they work so well with alternating current).

I suggest you check the polarity of the set up and the earth resistance.

[emily's driver]

Originally Posted by benson

I'm still intrigued by why ED's 'cators won't work on one side....

Is there a power munching gremlin asleep somewhere in the wiring???

Confused (but that's easily done) of Benson-shire....

Yes I think there must be as it's all a bit beyond the scope of my Ladybird 'Electronics for beginners' book. Oh well, plenty of good advice on here ought to help.

[emily's driver]

Originally Posted by SimonH

Almost certainly the reason for the indicators working on one side only is polarity. LED's are diodes which are devices which permit current to travel in one direction only. In fact the "light emmitting" bit is an accident of history. Light bulbs are not sensitive to polarity (which is why they work so well with alternating current).

I suggest you check the polarity of the set up and the earth resistance.

Thanks Simon, I have ordered some resistors following on from earlier advice, so I am hoping this will solve the problem, as they are extremely bright when they do work, at least for the five mins they were on the bike for.

[emily's driver]

Originally Posted by Capo

If want to go the resistor method it's pretty simple.

The flasher units require this draw current for the timing circuit, so basically you just want to shed off the same amount of power that would normally be taken by the incandescent globes, i.e. 10watts per indicator globe.

So, to get rid of 10 watts in a 13.8V system...

V=IxR hence I=V/R
P=VxI, so with a bit of substitution
P=V2/R, hence R=V2/P

Put in our figures and
R=13.8x13.8/10=19 ohms or for ease of purchase 22ohm should be fine (8.7watts).

So if you hook this in parallel with the light you'll now draw away the 10W the light use to.
As for power rating, a 10W resistor should not have any problems. Although you will be drawing 10 watts of power, it should only be at around a 50% duty cycle and hence won’t build up as much heat in the resistor.

If you're a bit more adventurous you can just put the one resistor across the output of the flasher unit. Around 19ohms for one pair of indicators replaced or halve the resistance (twice the current therefore twice the power) and double the power rating for both front and back replaced.

Capo, you have rekindled fond memories from my physics lessons, namely I=V/R !! That equation in itself helped solve a multitude of barsteward questions at school. Thanks for the info and I hope these resistor jobbies I have coming will solve my problem. Now that Ducati seem to be incorporating so much into the ECU and instrument cluster, there are fewer and fewer options to modify the bikes electrics, when all that would otherwise be required was a modified relay, which I now have and is practically useless. (offers anyone?) I dont know the resistance of the loom inserts I bought but from what you say if they are close to 22 ohms, I hope this will work.

[pooh]

Dont worry about the calculations one 10 ohm 25watt resistor in parallel with the new lights will solve the problem or it did for me, resistors available from Maplin Electronics for about £2-00.

Ian

I had a similar problem to ED, in that one side would flash faster than the other, but then both sides would speed up after about 3 flashes too! - I also found the problem that SimonH mentions regarding polarity with LEDs (get the wires mixed up and they won't work), and to futher confuse things, when first fitting my most recent mutli LED front indicators, when you switched either side on, then 2 LEDs on the opposite side also flashed?! (not the whole other indicator, just two of the LED diodes - work that one out!)

Anyway, all these problems seem to stem from the fact the relay is built into the circuitry in the clocks, and it all gets a bit confused when the resistance and current changes when using aftermarket indicators and/or LED bulbs...

As Pooh suggests, a trip to Maplin ought to restore things, although for skin-flinty budget types, you could always do what I did and just wire in another pair of (regular bulb) indicators to the rear circuit, tape up the lenses and zip tie them behind the sidepanels - and hey presto! - works a treat!

xxx