Your cogs ?

[Phoenix]

Ok there's been a bit of a debate about mods and speed and to dyno or not etc and one question that cropped up was sprocket sizes etc.

So i'll start with what I have on Max.

15-45


As i've said i don't have any power issues unless we're talking warp factor speeds here. So there you go. Dp Airbox- Dyno Jet - Open Cans and cogs as above :D
Somewhere around there is a chart we use for racing which gives the differences for rev's and cog sizes etc in relation to revs and what speeds you'd get in what gear etc but i'm not sure it would equate to my bike. Besides i haven't got a rev counter so i'm not sure it's relevent :confused:

[Kev Bunney]

So what are the standard cogs then ?

[Phoenix]

So what are the standard cogs then ?

No idea hunny bunny but i'm sure someone will be along later to say :)

[nik_the_brief]

15 front to 43 rear (but 45 is also acceptable).

You could try searching the old theads for more info there are several dedicated to this particular subject!

[Kev Bunney]

So the lady from the flames is up 2 teeth on her rear sprocket then, presumably more acceleration but a bit less top end speed then ?

[Fosse Foxfight]

So the lady from the flames is up 2 teeth on her rear sprocket then, presumably more acceleration but a bit less top end speed then ?
Hehe Kev, no!!! Bags more, it does 127mph :eek: ahem...anyway Kev, we gonna start supportin Derby or summat? :(

ta ra me ducks

Sean

oh you got a PM by the way

[Kev Bunney]

Hehe Kev, no!!! Bags more, it does 127mph :eek: ahem...anyway Kev, we gonna start supportin Derby or summat? :(

ta ra me ducks

Sean

oh you got a PM by the way

I`d sooner rip my own head off than become a sheep sha**er ! am off to Gillingham later on to continue the torture !!

[Phoenix]

So the lady from the flames is up 2 teeth on her rear sprocket then, presumably more acceleration but a bit less top end speed then ?

Erm dunno about that :D And who mentioned 127 ? I didn't :p

( wonders if Max will be doing 150 by the end of this thread!! ) :lol:

[Fosse Foxfight]

Erm dunno about that :D And who mentioned 127 ? I didn't :p

( wonders if Max will be doing 150 by the end of this thread!! ) :lol:

Hehe Phoenix......the 127 is courtesy of your chap

"I'm twpd, Phoenix's bloke - I no longer have an account on here but, I thought I should respond to the bait.

I have video evidence shot from my Triumph Sprint RS with 122mph on the clock and P pulling away into the distance on her 600. I have clocked her 600 in excess of 120mph on a variety of bikes: my Fazer 6, my Sprint RS and my 748. "Max" happily cruises two-up at an indicated 100mph and even with my 13 stone frame on it will show 127mph on the clock. Of course, all speedo's lie but the balance of evidence I have seen does indeed confirm that her 600 will exceed 120mph. If you want to see the evidence I'll give you a pointer to the video (ftp) but, it's a 70MB or so download"

To be fair you only said 126 :p

and hes not come back with the video evidence, I so much wanted some humble pie.......I'm such a wind up git arent I :o soz Phoenix:(

ta ra me ducks

[Phoenix]

Ah but he does have it..he just hasn't uploaded it or something.

Get yer napkin ready laddie :D

[Fosse Foxfight]

Ah but he does have it..he just hasn't uploaded it or something.

Get yer napkin ready laddie :D

Nah, humble pie is best eaten with crumbs on your pants. Revenge is a dish best served cold and you should always rest your sausages after grilling them.
Now...serving suggestions for Humble Pie please?

ta ra me ducks and Phoenixs

:rolleyes:

Sean

[Phoenix]

Revenge is a dish best served cold :rolleyes:

Sean
Meaning .... ?

[Fosse Foxfight]

Meaning .... ?
You want meaning in my rantings? :eek:
Dont do meanings....nah, youre a good sport Oh Burnt Birdy.

Sean

[NattyBoy]

Not been slipping avgas in max's tank have you Lynn..??? :lol:

[Phoenix]

Not been slipping avgas in max's tank have you Lynn..??? :lol:

I wish he doesn't even get optimax.
But i'm honestly getting perplexed by FF's intimation that i'm lying.
Anyway I give up..I'm out on my bike tomorrow probably pootling at 40 mph cos after all it's a 600 :rolleyes:
So Alex you in ?

[Fosse Foxfight]

I wish he doesn't even get optimax.
But i'm honestly getting perplexed by FF's intimation that i'm lying.
Anyway I give up..I'm out on my bike tomorrow probably pootling at 40 mph cos after all it's a 600 :rolleyes:
So Alex you in ?

Oh chill out High Tempertaure Birdy....Im not implying that youre lying at all, merely poking gentle fun at 126mph on an almost stock 600. All I did in the fist place anyway was to point out that 125 on the clock would equate to about 115 at best.

take it easy and you have a reply to your PM

Sean

[Phoenix]

High Tempertaure Birdy

Too right so be careful Dr Full of hot air yerself :p

[A Yerbury]

the tale of the fox and the phoenix! Im in Tom so feel free to pop by for a tyre kicking session.

[manc skank]

actually.... adding the two teech at the back making it 45 would give better acceleration and less top end with no other changes. but with the few extra horses phoenix has, by effectivley dropping the gears you get to 'use' more horsepower at a given speed.

ie: at 6000rpm with 43 teeth you do 115mph in 5th and thats all you can get. with 45 teeth you can do 115 at 6500rpm and get closer to peak power and have more power available at a given speed.

this is all far more complicated than that, and i dont pretend to understand it much, ill dig some more info out later. :D

[Phoenix]

actually.... adding the two teech at the back making it 45 would give better acceleration and less top end with no other changes. but with the few extra horses phoenix has, by effectivley dropping the gears you get to 'use' more horsepower at a given speed.

ie: at 6000rpm with 43 teeth you do 115mph in 5th and thats all you can get. with 45 teeth you can do 115 at 6500rpm and get closer to peak power and have more power available at a given speed.

this is all far more complicated than that, and i dont pretend to understand it much, ill dig some more info out later. :D

Ooo yes please tell me more, despite changing gearing all summer racing i still havent quite sussed how it all works. It keeps going in but falls out the other side when i'm asleep in the caravan despite wearing earplugs!

And Mr Yerbs get the coffee sometime around 11 ish ;) ( map please )

Hmm the Fox and The Phoenix sounds like a new Disney Production or maybe Harry Potty can star in it.

[Phoenix]

you get to 'use' more horsepower at a given speed.



See....See ....I said it's not what you got but how you use it :p :D

[manc skank]

start here Jim G knows far more about gearing than most people should :D

http://www.ducatimonster.org/faq/faq_gearing.html

"One is emissions testing protocols in different areas of The World. Often, the designer will skew the gearing away from optimized performance simply to help the bike pass a specific emissions testing protocol, even if that protocol is applicable in only one or a few places where the bike will actually be sold overall. If the state of California has tighter standards than Texas, the Texas rider may get stuck with the California gearing just because the manufacturer doesn’t want to produce and track different versions of bikes for different markets. Another example of this is bikes meeting stringent Euro standards being sold elsewhere in the same trim. In such cases, a gearing change might be in order."

[Zimbo]

First I will verify P's top speed claims for Max, I've chased Max at speeds in excess of 120 on many an occasion, 126 - 127 is about right I'd say. I've also clocked Max two up at 115, with luggage and winter jackets!

Now, to gearing theory.

It's fairly obvious that the faster you make the chain go round, the faster the back wheel will turn, and the faster the bike will travel.
The gearbox sprocket will always turn at a speed related to engine speed in any gear. Assuming we're in top gear, and we don't have any clutch slip, the rotational speed of the gearbox sprocket will be directly proportional to engine speed. This ratio is fixed and cannot be altered without replacing the gears inside the engine casing.
So, riding along at say 7000 rpm engine speed, the gearbox output sprocket will be turning at a constant speed, lets say for arguement's sake at 4500rpm.

Drive is transferred to the rear wheel by means of a chain, driven by the gearbox sprocket, and driving the wheel round through the rear sprocket.
For each turn of the gearbox sprocket the chain will be advanced by the number of teeth on that sprocket. In your case Lin the chain will advance by 15 links per turn of the gearbox sprocket.

The rear wheel will be turned one rotation when the chain has advanced by the number of teeth on the rear sprocket that drives the wheel - in this case 45. Therefore the rear wheel will turn once for three turns of the gearbox sprocket (45 / 15) and the rotational speed of the rear wheel will be exactly one third of the gearbox sprocket, in the case of our example at 1500 rpm.
The rear wheel is a constant radius and will drive us along the road a fixed distance per turn. As an example lets say this equates to 120mph at 7000 engine rpm.

Now, lets change the front sprocket from 15 teeth to 14.
The chain now advanced 14 links per turn of the gearbox sprocket instead of 15, therefore the rear sprocket, and thus wheel, turns more slowly - at 1400rpm rather than 1500rpm, equating to a road speed of 112mph at the same 7000 engine rpm.

If we stay with our 15 tooth front sprocket and decrease the rear instead from 45 to 43 teeth, the opposite happens. The chain is advancing at 15 links per turn of the gearbox sprocket, and this drives the rear sprocket, which will turn once per 43 links of chain advance. The rotational speed of the back wheel will be 1570rpm instead of the 1500 we had with the 45 tooth rear sprocket, and our speed at 7000 rpm will be 125.58mph.

If you want to know what difference in speed a sprocket change will make at a given engine RPM the maths is simple. Take the speed you currently do at our fixed engine rpm, multiply it by the number of teeth on the new sprocket, and divide it by the teeth on the old sprocket, if you're changing the front sprocket.
If you're changing the rear sprocket do it the other way round, multiply by the teeth on the old sprocket, and divide by the new.

Lesson over ....

[Phoenix]

First I will verify P's top speed claims for Max, I've chased Max at speeds in excess of 120 on many an occasion, 126 - 127 is about right I'd say. I've also clocked Max two up at 115, with luggage and winter jackets!


Lesson over ....

:D :D ..... :p

On a serious note whilst it's fine to bait me on here please bear in mind that potential new owners will read you all taking the **** and possibly decide not to buy a bike which in my opinion is more than adequate for any new rider. And perfectly capable for the more experienced too.

Lesson over too ;)

[gary tompkins]

In answer to the question posted earlier in the thread, here is a bit of info on the M600's standard gearing...

The factory revised the primary & final drive drive ratios during the 600's production. The original 1994 monsters had 32/73 primary & 15/38 final drive, but from frame No. 002961 this was changed to 31/62 & 15/43 - the same as the 900 monster.

The M600 kept this ratio until 1998 when the 600 engine was re-designed to have 33/61 primary & 14/46 final drive.

As you can see Ducati gradually raised the primary gearing amd reduced the final drive ratio, presumably the overall gearing remained much the same? :D

[A Yerbury]

I think youll find the 1994 had a 14? 15 after that. dont know about the rear tho..
Alex

[Fosse Foxfight]

:D :D ..... :p

On a serious note whilst it's fine to bait me on here please bear in mind that potential new owners will read you all taking the **** and possibly decide not to buy a bike which in my opinion is more than adequate for any new rider. And perfectly capable for the more experienced too.

Lesson over too ;)

Very fair point.....nah I wouldnt want that to happen after all I have steered my best friend away from an SV650 and got him to buy a 600 Monster....dont get me wrong Phoenix, its a Monster and hence the only bike worth bothering about. Its a highly adequate bike for anybody who wants to have buckets of fun with buckets of attitude. But for me the 900 is a lot more useable and flexible machine, that can do all the 600 can and more with comfort and ease. But theyre both better than anything else.....OK not as fast as most sports bikes and sorry I still dispute that Max will out do most 600 sportsbikes, but youve obviously got a gem and with your petite physique its suits you to a tee............now....I reckon thats quite amenable of me. So you coming down this way next year and humiliate me on the twisties of Wiltshire and Somerset?

Mr. Hot Air Windy-Bags :lol:

Bring it on Baby

ta ra me ducks and Phoenixs'

[Phoenix]

So you coming down this way next year and humiliate me on the twisties of Wiltshire and Somerset?

Mr. Hot Air Windy-Bags :lol:

Bring it on Baby

ta ra me ducks and Phoenixs'

Hmm a challenge :eek: What do you think boys ? Should I ? :D

[Fosse Foxfight]

Hmm a challenge :eek: What do you think boys ? Should I ? :D
See....too defensive....it was an invite dear lady not a challenge. I like to keep my intake of humble pie to a reasonable minimum. You'd **** all over me you Minitwins chick you :p

ta ra

[A Yerbury]

ola, got your text, no problem as its a bit grim today in anycase, Ill be around for a few more weeks.
Alex.

[Phoenix]

ola, got your text, no problem as its a bit grim today in anycase, Ill be around for a few more weeks.
Alex.

Cheers hun :)

[gary tompkins]

I think youll find the 1994 had a 14? 15 after that. dont know about the rear tho..
Alex

Not according to Ian Falloon in his book "Restoring Ducati belt drive 2-valve twins". I've just re-checked the chapter on monsters and can't find any monster quoted as having a 14 tooth front cog as standard. Although a popular mod to lower gearing and improve acceleration, the 14 tooth sprocket is thought to cause more wear & strain on the chain due to it's smaller radius, and for this reason would be unlikley to be recommended as O.E. fitment by the factory :p

[A Yerbury]

well I assumed (italic) that mr previous owner had bunged the 14 t on mine as compared to a couple of standard 600s Ive tried it does all the things a front cog drop down should..fine thinks me, one mod I dont need to bother with. But whilst looking at the DID chain sprocket set up they state a 14 for 1994 monster 600s, I could dig out the web page but to be honest its not that interesting.
Alex