Modifications on a budget

[Mark Walker]

Right, so I have had the bike for a couple of weeks now, and my mind is starting to drift towards how I can tailor the bike to my own tastes and improve the performance....looking for things I can do on my own to start with.....no major dealer work for now......

I am on a limited budget, so the loud cans that I want to help my neighbours get out of bed before 1pm on a Sunday will have to wait till next summer.....however, I have started to think about things like replacing the Filter (have heard a lot of mention of things such as the K&N variety), would like to get a seat cowl. Also heard talk of a Dyno Jet, but have no idea what that is.

So what suggestions would people have for tweaks that I could make to improve the look/performance of my new toy.......its a '99 600 Dark and totally standard apart from a flyscreen.......and it's quite happy with it's long tail ;)

Thanks in advance........

[Fosse Foxfight]

:twisted:
OK.....I reckon that at some point we couold get together a very accurate How To Survive the First Year Of Monster Ownership. You should get a new main starter relay, that's the one under the seat....square block type thing that will crap out on you within the next 6-12 months......you can get these at your main dealer but Id recommend that you find a Hella stockist and order part no. 4RA 003 510-131, theyre about a fiver each. You could also splash out the 25 quid for a new starter solenoid and keep that in the bag with the relay and that way youll have both spares that youll need :rolleyes:
The next thing you can consider is getting your suspension sorted....for around 220 plus parts and vat Maxton (http://www.esling.btinternet.co.uk/maxton/) will rebuild your front forks with springs to suit you and revalve the shocks and rebuild with new seals and bushes to give you a set of forks equivalent in performance to a set of WPs or Ohlins.......obviously the next step is to think about the raer suspension where again the standard Showa shock is replaceable with Ohlins, WP, Penske or Maxton will build a shock for you again to your own requirements.
Now.....you got a bike that handles as well as practically anything on the road........now you gotta speak to Phoenix to see how to get 127mph from a 600 :p

ta ra me ducks

Sean

[A Yerbury]

well personally Id have gone for an m6 with some of these mods already on but never mind...k and n nake filters for everything and like most aftermarket they basically let more air in. A dyno jet kit is a bunch of springs and needles that replace the ones in the carbs, the kit is pretty cheap but fitting it is not. race cans let more gas out per engine cycle and look/sound a lot better. A dyno run on the other hand is a big machine (some are mobile on vans) that allows a diagnostic run through the gears to be made and is the only really accurate way of assesing whether you have the right balance of air and exploding stuff. standard carbed monsters run a bit rich from the factory which means they need a bit more air (hence the filter etc) for optimum performance, Im still waiting to hear from phoenix concerning her sprocket set up but thats for another thread!
Alex

[Mark Walker]

Does seem a bit arse-about-face really, but I kind of wanted to get get something standard in the end to try and minimise the chance of buying something that had been modded badly or in an attempt to cover things up after a spill.....

Would it go faster if I painted it red before changing the filter?

[A Yerbury]

oh well it will cost more in the long run but at least it will be more to your own spec, getting the paint job "finished" would be a start :) The suspension mods Fosse mentioned are worthwhile but would perhaps only be really noticed/appreciated if one were a bit of a knees down type, for general pootling 480 odd quid for an ohlins (as lovely as they are) is plenty dollar. Also the some of the cheap -sorry! "budget"- dark monsters have lower spec forks so you may be limited adjustment wise. I saw some filters and cans on ebay earlier, not tooooo pricey.
toodle oooh...

[Fosse Foxfight]

oh well it will cost more in the long run but at least it will be more to your own spec, getting the paint job "finished" would be a start :) The suspension mods Fosse mentioned are worthwhile but would perhaps only be really noticed/appreciated if one were a bit of a knees down type, for general pootling 480 odd quid for an ohlins (as lovely as they are) is plenty dollar. Also the some of the cheap -sorry! "budget"- dark monsters have lower spec forks so you may be limited adjustment wise. I saw some filters and cans on ebay earlier, not tooooo pricey.
toodle oooh...

Actually Yerbs the front fork mods make even more sense on the Marzocchi (ahem cheaper less adjustable forks :D ) as they are set up to your own likes/needs. I just happen to come from the handling, brakes n tyres first brigade....then make it go faster :cool:

ta ra me ducks

[A Yerbury]

jeez, just been on the phone to daytona and a sachs replacement is nearly 500 quid?...hmm may give hagon a call. so maxton will essentially rebuild the mazocchs? how much are the parts and once they have been rebuilt will they be adjustable? and how are forks tailored? is the person weighed or given a questionairre or sat on a sort of rolling road shock machine or do they just say "you want them harder or softer? (Im genuinely curious)
toodle me pip.

[Pedro]

jeez, just been on the phone to daytona and a sachs replacement is nearly 500 quid?...hmm may give hagon a call. so maxton will essentially rebuild the mazocchs? how much are the parts and once they have been rebuilt will they be adjustable? and how are forks tailored? is the person weighed or given a questionairre or sat on a sort of rolling road shock machine or do they just say "you want them harder or softer? (Im genuinely curious)
toodle me pip.

Yerbs

Hagon were featured in one of the monthly mags and the writer spoke highly of them. They did a Z750, both forks and shocj, and the results seemed excellent. Not too expensive either I think.

Ped

[Paranoid Dave]

A couple of things to remember befor eplaying with fork springs. Yes a company can set up ya forks to suit you, but forks are not thrown out the factory having been built by chimps (almost but not quite). Find out what settings they are, weight distribution, rider settings etc. There's no point paying someone money for them to tell you it was right all along. If like me (marzochi unadjustable M600) with a single disc, I think you'll find they were set in the factory to be on the safe side and pretty hard, I'm doing twin disc soon so I guess then I'll NEED to get them changed.
Don't be fooled into changing the forks for adjustable ones if they aint, adjustables allow you (within a small amount) to set it nearer your style, but you won't need it if it's set correctly from the inside.

Yes sorting the shocks all over will improve handling but make sure you know what you need to change before you do?

[spacemonkey]

And of course, adjustable forks are great...if you know what you're doing! Remember the 80's GSXR1100? Most evils can be sorted with an oil weight change, but if they aint broke, why fix 'em?

If you're gonna change the filter, then you might as well go stage 2 and get a dynopet kit and some grown up to fit it with the aid of their pet dyno. This is only really worth doing if you do the cans at the same time, otherwise, there isn't really much point. Extra air can happily get in, but has nowhere to go due to restrictive pipes. Maybe it's best to save a little longer and get the whole lot. Try this site for second hand pipes.

[A Yerbury]

I saw the article ped (nice colour to, red not yellow!) and 250 for the monster. why would one buy a sachs at that price and not an ohlins?

[Paranoid Dave]

don't forget to chek out the thread "how much power can you get out of a 600" I can't remember what they rate a stage 2 and airbox to produce but it's not a lot (but there's not a lot to start with) I have very open pipes with no crucible so were running a bit rich, this was solved with better plugs more suited for the richness and my airbox is still as nature intended. I have it on very good authority that taking the cover off will not do a lot to help but I guess it would be needed if stage 2 was fitted. I guess phoenix can back that one.

Best mods on a budget tho, hmmmm, tough one.

Seat cowl looks great - if you got a dark do the same as Julie and paint a cowl matte black, looks fantastic and not many of them around.

Decals - most of them look crap but either do the whole thing and do it well (Julie again on this one) silver cose stripe or find one small decal suitably placed will add that little eye catching touch.

Clean the bike, paint over all the little scratches and stone chips

After that it depends on cash. Braided hoses, painted rear hugger looks good, rev counter if you need one, smaller indicators rather than those TVs on each side, Hows the chain...? Do a sprocket and chain update and feel the difference you can get for under £100 there.

Are you after performance or looks?

[stef]

Dave, where do you get your plugs ?
my 600 is also running rich, and i need to sort it out (sick of cleaning plugs every couple of months !) Since i have officially decided to keep the 600 (not upgrade to 900) I have also decided to sort her out. i am now saving for a winter makeover (cans+ filter+stage 2).. anyway, i am currently runing on the NGK readily available from halfords for a couple of squids each.

[Paranoid Dave]

Stef, don't think i'm any expert but heres what the guy who did my service told me after he fitted them. I might paraphrase here:

"It was running a bit rich so I put some more suitable pugs in to solve the problem, they shouldn't soot up so much now as these are the 9's not 8's
NGK DPR9EA9 fitted"

So any NGK place should have them but please don't just take my advice, anyoe out there know their plugs?
He also tweaked my idle screw (didn't think I had one) but that turned 1/8th has meant I need a bit more warming up, and choke on for a little while to get her ready.

Q for tech heads - I also notice that as the idle revs are less, large-ish roundabouts i used to take in 2nd or 15mph traffic also, I now have to drop into first as it feels too low in revs in 2nd. As speed is affected by revs, would adjusting the idle have an effect on the cruising speed or top speed of the bike? I'm not after using it to get power but I wondered if it was a possible answer to why some 600's seem faster than others at the same revs? :confused:

[A Yerbury]

the dpr9ea9 s are the bog standard ones ducati reccomend the dpr9ea8 s are a bit hotter (helped over winter) whether iridium/split fire etc would make much difference to a 600 I doubt it, probably the old optimax placebo again!

[A Yerbury]

cheap improvements include..remove tail, remove side pods, remove mirrors, remove standard bars, remove indicators, remove plastic sprocket cover, remove plastic side panels errr did/does the dark have plastic fenders? I have a smattering of carbon fib on mine not because I have a fetish for the stuff but I prefer it to the standard, soft, cheap (its rubbish basically) plastic or OTT rizoma/RR/chrome/alloy alternatives. Carbon fibre suites the matt black of the darks nicely IMO so....whoops..hang on you wanted cheap performance gains and all I can come up with is expensive fluff! sorry mark! I think the bottom line is performance stuff is not cheap. Save up 600 quid and do the performance gains/mods all in one.

[andy pea]

Hi Mark,
Greetings from another newish cheltenham monsterer! :burnout:
I too am thinking of subtle mods for mine and am thinking along cosmetic lines first..... the s4 has more than enough ponies for me and i can now have a good go at keeping up with me gsxr riding mate! :twisted:
I really like the look of the corse stripes (a la s4r) but perhaps a bit more "kill bill"? Not sure whether to get some vinyl stick on stripes or bite the bullet and have a spray job?
As for other mods, make sure everything is working as ducati intended (not including starter solenoids!) and enjoy racking up the miles!

a pea :)

[A Yerbury]

paint vs vinyl depends on whether you want to spend 15 quid or 500. by kill bill you mean symetrical jah?

[andy pea]

paint vs vinyl depends on whether you want to spend 15 quid or 500. by kill bill you mean symetrical jah?

Eeeeek.... would paint really be £500!!! Vinyl it is then!
The kill bill thing would be 2 symetrical black stripes down the middle jah!
I've been playing around in autocad trying to picture the various options and am now reet confused... single thick stripe? two equal stripes? One thick, one thin? pinstripes? down the middle or offset? etc? :confused: choices, choices!

a pea :)

[A Yerbury]

i have one slim stripe with 2 slightly larger either side (cortesy of a chopped up corse kit for a fender and some fablon from homebase) in the centre, not sure about the off centre thing.
insulationg tape makes a great and cheap kill bill spill lid...(true)

[Phoenix]

Firstly. Alex I WILL get Max out tomorrow and count the cogs for you ..promise!
Secondly They do run rich but are choked for air intake to meet strict regs i'm told. Changing the air box for K and N or a DP one like mine frees them and they can breath like they should.( please read below re cans)
As for the rest ...
I don't think that Ohlins are a suitable mod just yet unless you have money to burn and can ride like Rossi however it's worth bearing in mind in future and a crap shock or one with a bust adjuster ( for what it's worth! ) will make the bike handle badly so if it's bad a rework by the folks at AR Racing will cost you around £90.
The front...well yes if you can afford it then have them reworked too. Crust from these here parts will recommend that highly and where to get them done. Although after 23k mile I havent bothered ( except having the head bearings replaced) with mine and fitted a steering damper instead for the more high speed stuff. They will be being reworked in spring though as they do feel tired.
I am of the opinion that twin discs are not needed subject to braided lines being fitted and properly maintained brakes, but horses for courses, i won't change mine but the i only ickle - if you're 20 stone then it's probably a good idea ;)
The best thing you can do with your dosh is get a thorough maintenance job done, greasing all that should be greased, replacing any worn bits and investing in a airbox and dynojet 2 kit but you will need open cans so it can work properly and breath how it should. I have oval Art Cans on mine £90 each.
A cowl you can drop onto on ebay every now and then.
I perosnally believe you should get the bike working as best it can with it's designed bits before investing in expensive goodies. Nothing will give you a greater feeling than the bike set up and working well :)
Cheaper mods, chop, indicators, mirrors, et all. Just keep an eye on ebay for other bits or save up and buy new.
BTW there was a Ohlins for 600's on ebay last week. It went for £250....I was gutted cos i didn't have the dosh :(

[Phoenix]

Would it go faster if I painted it red before changing the filter?

Deffo .... ;)

[Phoenix]

(sick of cleaning plugs every couple of months !) .

Blimey I never have to do that :eek:

[A Yerbury]

Ive not heard that one, does it make any difference steffano? apart from being err cleaner for 5 minutes?

[stef]

it usually means the baby wont start, no matter what, or maybe just start on one leg.
in that case, i just change the plugs, and even barely touching the start button is enough to get her purring. the removed spark plugs are then cleaned up and stored for future use.
dont they all do that ? i heard someone else say they carried a set of spare plugs everywhere..

on the mods front, the sidepods are the one to go first, well, it's for free, and it helps to get familliar with the working of the bike (taking it apart, at least !).
on that note, i have kept the long hoses and 'cartridge' thingies on the bike, i just rerouted them, but they often get in the way of things (tank, choke...). can i cut them shorter without affecting anyting ? ideally half an inch between the carb and the cartridge, and then another inch of pipe ?

other possible mod is to remove the choke cable (at least on carbed 600).
you can still choke the bike by pressing a metal tab on the left side of the carb. i like the idea of not having the ugly cable running down the front of the bike.

[gary tompkins]

I'm not after using it to get power but I wondered if it was a possible answer to why some 600's seem faster than others at the same revs? :confused:

I would guess it's mainly down to differences in gearing? The factory revised the primary & final drive drive ratios during the 600's production. The original 1994 monsters had 32/73 primary & 15/38 final drive, but from frame No. 002961 this was changed to 31/62 & 15/43 - the same as the 900 monster.

The M600 kept this ratio until 1998 when the 600 engine was re-designed to have 33/61 primary & 14/46 final drive, which was what Kylie would have started out with.

:D

[Phoenix]

dont they all do that ? .

Never ever had to do that on mine. The only time the plugs get changed is on service and even then to be honest they certainly don't look like they need it.

Anyone else have to clean their plugs on a regular basis ? :confused:

I'd be looking into why it's doing that if it were my bike. I wouldn't consider it normal at all :)

[Mark Walker]

Exccellent, thanks for all the ideas, plenty to think about there......although I seem to have given the impression that I was after more speed than anything else, whereas in reality, I am really just interested in what things I could do if the fancy took me. Probably would start with the cosmetic side of things, good clean up, bit of paint here and there and then a seat cowl........note to self, check out matt black paint.......it is due a big service in February next year (which is why I am after doing cheap stuff before then) and I might have a chat with the chaps about a few further titivations then........although their 'preliminary' quote of about £400 quid for the service was a little worrying.....note to self......ring around before February.....

Thanks again........although all the suggestions have got me thinking and I want go home and look at it.......and it isn't even 9am yet......oh well only 8 hours to go!

Cheers

[Phoenix]

Check out AR Racing down your way. Zimbo has their number. Excellent from what I hear and deals with the Ducati race bikes. Zimbo has his 900ss doen there and thoroughly recommends them.
Or how about Richard from LouigiMoto from these hear parts, think he's in Bristol though but not sure.
I don't take mine to Ducati dealer, most of it's done at home but other than that i'd only take it to a specialist independant with a good rep. It's far cheaper ;)

[manc skank]

it usually means the baby wont start, no matter what, or maybe just start on one leg.
in that case, i just change the plugs, and even barely touching the start button is enough to get her purring. the removed spark plugs are then cleaned up and stored for future use.
dont they all do that ? i heard someone else say they carried a set of spare plugs everywhere..



sounds like your bike is running too rich and fouling the plugs.

[Mark Walker]

Much as I'd love to do it myself, I think I will need a bit more experience before 'doing the shims' as my friendly Ducati specialist said they would need doing.......

The bike has been 'done' by Riders in Bristol up till now, so will try them and geta number for AR Racing.....where abouts are they based?

[Phoenix]

They are in Stroud hun. They do shims too ;) PM Zimbo he'll have the number for you.

[Mark Walker]

mmmmmm......and I have a meeting in Stroud next week.....so I could drop in and have a chat........now that's handy......

[Fosse Foxfight]

Check out AR Racing down your way. Zimbo has their number. Excellent from what I hear and deals with the Ducati race bikes. Zimbo has his 900ss doen there and thoroughly recommends them.
Or how about Richard from LouigiMoto from these hear parts, think he's in Bristol though but not sure.
I don't take mine to Ducati dealer, most of it's done at home but other than that i'd only take it to a specialist independant with a good rep. It's far cheaper ;)

Louigi Moto is in Radstock area sorta southish between Bristol and Bath or used to be and comes highly recommended, a buddy has his S4 done there and saved a princely sum on a Ducati dealers prices....and Richard Llewlellyn is pretty knowledgeable. He'll also pick your bike up and drop it back off if youre not too far away, and as Phoenix says dont take it to a dealer, take it to a good independent, youll get charged a reasonable sum by somebody who loves Ducs and usually knows a lot about them......Louigi Moto, Superlight, Sigma Racing.
Whos this AR Racing then Phoenix?

ta ra me ducks

Sean

[Fosse Foxfight]

AJR Racing?.........if so they are at
80 Wotton Road,
Charfield,
South Gloucestershire
Tel 01453 845 544 or 07957 166 896

its near Wooton under Edge just south of Stroud

ta ra me ducks

[stef]

how do you make your bike run more lean ? carb adjustment, i presume ? is it a easy diy jobby ?

[Fosse Foxfight]

how do you make your bike run more lean ? carb adjustment, i presume ? is it a easy diy jobby ?

If its running rich on tickover its the pilot jet, if its slow running its the cut away and if its running rich on higher engine speeds its the main jet.
But really its better to have your machine running slightly rich. As most people have pointed out the air box mod will sort this out......and even now you can help it by taking the airbox cover off, and on the area behind the inlet trumpets drill 3 x 2" holes on the plastic. If you do go ahead and stick the Dynojet kit on you'll need a modded airbox set up anyway, but this is summat you can do straight away.
And this running rich thing.........if you go out for a ride and take a plug spanner with you; when your bike is warm, ie normal running temp, get up to a decent speed say 127mph....hehe sorry Phoenix......say 55-65 for about a mile, then slow down and cut your engine as quick as you can, then take the plug out and check it, then you'll know the general state your engine is running at standard conditions....i.e the main jet....its unusual that a decently set up carb will have an incorrect main jet, so you'll be looking for a clean if slightly black colour, as a slight richness will help your engine run smoother and slightly cooler and indeed last longer.

ta ra me ducks

Sean

[stef]

thanks for that..
i'll wait for the air box mod this winter as i'd like all the mods i am going to do to be fully reversible (drilling holes is out !)

[Phoenix]

AJR Racing?.........if so they are at
80 Wotton Road,
Charfield,
South Gloucestershire
Tel 01453 845 544 or 07957 166 896

its near Wooton under Edge just south of Stroud

ta ra me ducks
Ah...yes i think thats them. Haven't been there myself yet but he or Richard is likely to be getting Max in the spring for a few bits that I can't get done here. If thats the chappie then he does come highly recommended from what i've heard on the street :lol:

Now i must get Max out to satisfy Yerbs on the cogs issue...back shortly :)

[Fosse Foxfight]

jeez, just been on the phone to daytona and a sachs replacement is nearly 500 quid?...hmm may give hagon a call. so maxton will essentially rebuild the mazocchs? how much are the parts and once they have been rebuilt will they be adjustable? and how are forks tailored? is the person weighed or given a questionairre or sat on a sort of rolling road shock machine or do they just say "you want them harder or softer? (Im genuinely curious)
toodle me pip.

Hehe 500 quid for a standard shock eh? :D So the Ohlins is cheaper eh? :rolleyes: ahem....anyway, Maxton will rebuild your forks for 220 + vat and set them up with new springs and revalve to suit your weight, riding style, ie race, aggressive road, touring etc and tyres......apparently some tyres are not recommended :eek: eg Dunlop.....if the bushes n seal need changing as well thatll be an extra 40 quid....and no they wont be adjustable cause ya wont need it then :p ....give em a ring Yerbs......ask for Richard Adams......Watership Down werent it? :rolleyes: hes a knowledgeable chap.....basically its what used to be Koni, they took over the technology when Koni stopped making bike shocks, turn around is about 2 weeks.

ta ra me ducks

oh its
Maxton Engineering,
Chapel Works,
Kingswood,
Frodsham,
Warrington,
Cheshire,
WA6 6HX.
U.K.
TEL : +44 01928 740531
FAX : +44 01928 740635

[A Yerbury]

thanks for that..
i'll wait for the air box mod this winter as i'd like all the mods i am going to do to be fully reversible (drilling holes is out !)

well the air box mod is irreversible? Its just a piece of plastic and if by doing this your engine will run slightly better with no need to swap plugs every 5 minutes then surely its worth doing? no offence but I cant quite see the logic.
AY

[A Yerbury]

ola fosse, Im keeping my eyes on a bargain 900 sachs mono at the mo as mine is 10 yrs old and looking a bit shabby, and the fork seals need to be done within the next coupla weeks, once theyre done I may bring them out of the yokes a bit but on the whole the front is fine. I shall at some stage bring the arse up a bit as the rose joints are nt showing much thread at the moment.
Alex

[Fosse Foxfight]

ola fosse, Im keeping my eyes on a bargain 900 sachs mono at the mo as mine is 10 yrs old and looking a bit shabby, and the fork seals need to be done within the next coupla weeks, once theyre done I may bring them out of the yokes a bit but on the whole the front is fine. I shall at some stage bring the arse up a bit as the rose joints are nt showing much thread at the moment.
Alex

Yerbs...dont forget....the Ohlins is only £436 inc vat :cool:

get me coat?

ta ra me ducks

Sean

[DesmoDog]

Does seem a bit arse-about-face really, but I kind of wanted to get get something standard in the end to try and minimise the chance of buying something that had been modded badly or in an attempt to cover things up after a spill.....


oooh ooooh me me me! He's talkig about me!

[stef]

well the air box mod is irreversible? Its just a piece of plastic and if by doing this your engine will run slightly better with no need to swap plugs every 5 minutes then surely its worth doing? no offence but I cant quite see the logic.
AY

well, i am not using the bike much from now on (it's too cold up nortfe)
so i might as well wait before i butcher the plastic. my logic is that if i come to sell it at some point, the prospective buyer will look suspiciously on any butchering of this sort. i would anyway. the logic is that if the bike runs better with 3 big holes in the air box, Ducati should have designed it this way.
unless something else is not setup properly. which it may well be. so i'll get stage 2 jets anyway, and an k&n, that should sort it out.

(if i drilled the box, and a couple of weeks later had the bike properly setup, with the engine running too lean.. i would have to tape the holes !)

[Mark Walker]

......and I am sure I will end up doing that too at some point (covering up that is).......had it three weeks now and haven't dropped it yet......although I did try to push it in the shed with the disc lock on and it took me a few minutes to realise......just lucky I didn't try and ride it away!

[DesmoDog]

Stef you're in leeds!!!

[stef]

Stef you're in leeds!!!
yep, but used to much milder climate. i am freezing my b**ls off.

i trashed my first bike some years ago on black ice. rode accross the whole of england twice in mid-winter.. your british weather has beaten me into submission.

[Phoenix]

the logic is that if the bike runs better with 3 big holes in the air box, Ducati should have designed it this way.




Isn't that something to do with emissions and meeting regulations rather than the original design though ?

[Fosse Foxfight]

well, i am not using the bike much from now on (it's too cold up nortfe)
so i might as well wait before i butcher the plastic. my logic is that if i come to sell it at some point, the prospective buyer will look suspiciously on any butchering of this sort. i would anyway. the logic is that if the bike runs better with 3 big holes in the air box, Ducati should have designed it this way.
unless something else is not setup properly. which it may well be. so i'll get stage 2 jets anyway, and an k&n, that should sort it out.

(if i drilled the box, and a couple of weeks later had the bike properly setup, with the engine running too lean.. i would have to tape the holes !)

If you dynojet it and stick a k&n filter you wont get the advantages unless you modify the airbox anyway. And I think what everybodies trying to point out to you is that the airbox mod is a standard thing to do........its just that Ducati for whatever reason of emissions and space under the tank problems never really got the airbox design right and that these 3 holes are neccessary. And whatever you do unless its running very rich DO NOT set it too lean......great for fuel economy, **** for smooth running, **** for cruising...it'll "hunt" and great for burning holes thru your piston and shagging valve seats....at the most get your idle mixture/pilot jet set up correct with a set of manometers and drill the airbox or buy one of the DP boxes.

Just do it!!!

Go fast!!!:burnout:

ta ra me ducks

[A Yerbury]

well I dunno what a plastic lid costs but it cant be more than 20 quid. if 2 identicle m600s were for sale and one had been tweaked to a stage two with cans I know which one I'd rather have. the model of K N filter I have on mine (and the one i suspect youll be fitting) simply does away with the lid entirely! yes that bit of plastic youre so fond of will be redundant! eek!! it replaces both the paper and the lid in one.

(if i drilled the box, and a couple of weeks later had the bike properly setup, with the engine running too lean.. i would have to tape the holes !) what do you mean "set up"

[Phoenix]

well I dunno what a plastic lid costs but it cant be more than 20 quid. if 2 identicle m600s were for sale and one had been tweaked to a stage two with cans I know which one I'd rather have.

It makes the difference between doing 80 max and 150 don't you know ! :lol:

[A Yerbury]

max does 250 surely and you have it on tape??

[Phoenix]

max does 250 surely and you have it on tape??

Silly me...course he does and yes it's on tape too. :lol:

Which reminds me.... :twisted:

[stef]

I agree with you phoenix, it might be to meet the regulations, but then it does also foul my plugs.. i am sure the original bike out of the factory, didn't foul the plugs, met the emmision regulations and didn't have three holes in the air box..
so something has obviously changed with time. i just dont think holes is the best way to do it. the best way would be to find out the exact reason for this.
by setting up i meant rejetting.
to me, drilling the air box feels like when the hairdresser checks your hair for symetry, if one side is a bit too short, he'll cut a bit of the other one. and check again...see what i mean..

i'll get the DP box.. i just cant face taking the power tools to the bike.
it's like that tail chop thing... i just dont get it.. ;)

[Phoenix]

I agree with you phoenix, it might be to meet the regulations, but then it does also foul my plugs.. i am sure the original bike out of the factory, didn't foul the plugs, met the emmision regulations and didn't have three holes in the air box..

Agree with you Stef...maybe it's a worth a look elsewhere on the subject itself. I really don't think it should be fouling the plugs as often as you say so there must be another cause without having to resort to extreme mods.
Whatever it is I hope you find it..and the offer of a run on Max is still available. In fact at some point in the near future I may be up your way, well proper north ;) so maybe it's something we can bear in mind :)

[stef]

i'll be definitely up for that phoenix.

for the mo, the bike runs great, the plugs fouling thing is not really a big problem, the jets probably need resetting. I dont burn oil or anything, so the engine itself is sound. as i said, i'll sort everything out when going for stage 2.

[Fosse Foxfight]

i'll be definitely up for that phoenix.

for the mo, the bike runs great, the plugs fouling thing is not really a big problem, the jets probably need resetting. I dont burn oil or anything, so the engine itself is sound. as i said, i'll sort everything out when going for stage 2.
Errrr, you cant reset jets! And when you put the Stage 2 Dynojet on it'll get even a tad richer. I think that maybe its not actually "fouling" your plugs but merely leaving them slightly blackened, which is OK.........when youre bike left the factory it still ran a tad rich, they all do 600, 750 and 900, all the carb models do, but if theyre ridden often and not dragged around town too much then that slightly rich setting suits them. I also suspect that with new plugs in and from cold your bike starts on the first touch of the button? no choke not even on a pretty cold day.....would I be right?

ta ra

[stef]

umm yes, i guess so.. if the bike doesnt get going, i just change the plugs and it goes at the first engine turn. the plugs i removed are a bit black and just dont spark too well. first time i noticed this, i changed the air filter, which was getting a bit old. but it didnt' seem to make a difference.

dont tell me i have been doing something wrong. :confused:

[Fosse Foxfight]

umm yes, i guess so.. if the bike doesnt get going, i just change the plugs and it goes at the first engine turn. the plugs i removed are a bit black and just dont spark too well. first time i noticed this, i changed the air filter, which was getting a bit old. but it didnt' seem to make a difference.

dont tell me i have been doing something wrong. :confused:

Hehe yes thought so. Again pretty identical to most carb monsters. If your bike doesnt start quickly i.e. first turn, then you'll soak your plugs and they will struggle to start the engine. Take em out and replace with new clean dry plugs and cause your cylinder is still nicely primed with fuel it'll start straight away. The icky starting can sometimes be the fact that if the last few miles or even the last mile before you get home and park is quite slow then you coke the plugs slightly and make it a bit more difficult the next time you try to start.
Also it usually affects the front (vertical) cylinder more than the rear.

Sean

[spacemonkey]

The fouling plugs concerns me. I had the same on my 900 for a year and a bit and about 15000 miles. I finally got around to stage 2 jets, ripping the top off the filter and getting it on the dyno... turned out some monkey had adsjusted the carb so badly that it was running rich as hell but actually by different amounts on each cylinder! The plugs had needed cleaning every month as deposits grew until it shorted out. All seemed well for a while, but it was still using lots of oil. I bit the bullet and got the rings done. What had happened was that by running so rich for so long it had been suffering bore wash, and hence had been burning the bore oil coat which wore down the rings, which allowed more oil past, etc etc. All fixed, and everything was hunky dory. Until the woodruff key on the camshaft decided it didn't like where it was anymore, but that's another story!


So, Stef, get yer bike to a proper dyno setup session! Otherwise it could cost you loadsa wonga in the future.

[stef]

Hehe yes thought so. Again pretty identical to most carb monsters. If your bike doesnt start quickly i.e. first turn, then you'll soak your plugs and they will struggle to start the engine. Take em out and replace with new clean dry plugs and cause your cylinder is still nicely primed with fuel it'll start straight away. The icky starting can sometimes be the fact that if the last few miles or even the last mile before you get home and park is quite slow then you coke the plugs slightly and make it a bit more difficult the next time you try to start.
Also it usually affects the front (vertical) cylinder more than the rear.

Sean
no joking..
well, as far as parking slow is concerned, it is a definite yes.. just for the sake fo letting everyone in the area know i am back, i usually sit and listen to the bike purr...oh well..
but the front cylinder on my bike is horizontal.. :D

[A Yerbury]

putting holes in a standard box or paying for a box with holes in? the choice is yours but you are paying for the "hole" how much are dp lids? also make sure it will fit with the kn filter.
Alex.
ps sounds like you and fosse have identified the plug fault but if its oily then its piston rings worn or they have been put on the piston with the grooves in line, this does happen sometimes.

[stef]

shouldnt the bike burn oil in that case ?

[JR]

Mark,

Forget all the above - save your money for the most important thing - petrol. Get out and enjoy the bike as much as you can. When the chill winds of January blow get Louigi Moto out to collect your bike and give it a full service ready for spring and summer.



JR

[A Yerbury]

very zen mark...

Burns oil but some still gets left on the plugs (dont ask me why but one of the professors will hopefully explain!)
Alex.

[Mark Walker]

Well I think JR's suggestion is the best for now! So day off Friday......and if the weather is dry, gliding in the morning and riding in the afternoon.......followed by a few beers......mmmmm......Petrol it is then!!

Seriously though, reading through this thread has given me a few things to think about and I may well invest in a few 'spare parts' in case of minor problems and save up some cash to get the 'shiny' stuff next summer....in the meantime, I guess I could give it a damn good clean......

[Zimbo]

AJ Racing is a small race Ducati specialist near Wotton under Edge. Alan, the owner, specialises in engine and suspension work on race Ducatis, he builds all the BSB engines and many of the serious club racers, as well as many of the TT bikes etc. The chap that works for him was Chris Walker's superbike race mechanic. They both know their stuff, and then some. He doesn't mind doing a bit of service work, helps with cash flow (big race teams are very bad payers) and he likes air cooled two valve engines. His prices are more than reasonable. If you want engine mods or suspension work doing he's definately your man, mostly fits Race Tech suspension stuff and will make an enormous difference to handling for around £100 for a front fork rebuild kit. Does all engine work, machining, gas flows etc himself in house.
Also mentioned, Rich Llewellen (Louigi) very highly recommended, specialises in servicing road bikes, though he does race 748s as well. A better service than Riders for less money.
Or, do what I do and service it yourself, a Haynes manual and a set of tools is all you'll need, and just get the valve clearances done for you by one of the above!


AJ RAcing web site
http://www.ajracing.info/


As for what mods, I'd start with cans, if on a budget try Busters for a set of Vipers or ART. or keep an eye on ebay.
Next, dynojet kit and performance air filter.
Finally, suspension - especially front forks.
The rest is cosmetic, and I'm not even going to start on the possibilities there ....

[stef]

on the plug fouling subject.. it all falls into place now.. because i am an a**hole...
the bike came to me as 100% standard. so i always kept it that way. when i found it was runing slighlty rich, i changed the crummy, dirty looking 'pink' air filter to a genuine £12 ducati stock one. however, 2 weeks ago, i realised it had stage 1 jets. and yesterday, chatting to ducati john, he mentioned that usually with a stage 1, you would also fit an open box K&N... the penny dropped.
i had in fact bined the K&N, and the bike should have been runing without the air box lid on. (which also explains why, when i got the bike, the air inlets were facing the wrong way. the owner must have put it back on without thinking too much about it) I just have to pray hard that i didnt empty the garage bin since i threw the £50 filter in there !!!! :mad:

can i put this as part of the learning process, or am i just a retard :mad:

hope my little experience saves somebody elses filter.

[Phoenix]

Ah excellent news...well sort of ;)
At least it goes a way to explaining the running issues and as you say lesson learned.
Not a retard...just learning :) Hope it runs better for you now :D

[Fosse Foxfight]

:rolleyes:

[stef]

before u say anything, i am not drilling the top off !
(i'll just remove it, if i can fish the filter out of the bin !!)

[Fosse Foxfight]

before u say anything, i am not drilling the top off !
(i'll just remove it, if i can fish the filter out of the bin !!)
:rolleyes:

[manc skank]

hehehehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!

[A Yerbury]

glad its sorted, we learn by these things...:) but how did you find out that the jets had been changed? externally they look the same?
Alex.

[stef]

i went through all the invoices and service bills, when Chappers and Pete came to have a look at it, and found bill for a stage 1 for about £70 pounds. Now, i am assuming it is currently on the bike.

[A Yerbury]

serendipity! 70 sound s about right, Ill post a pic of my kn filter/no lid thing.
ciao.

[stef]

such a jammy tw#t.. i found the K&N in the bin... and it even says K&N on the side !
now, what do i do ? do i just remove the lid ? do i by a DP box ? I told you, i aint drilling it. :D
your pics would be apreciated !
(got a jean U wine ducati air filter for sale, if anybody wants one. harldy used.)

[A Yerbury]

took some earlier the PN on mine is 332003, I have the airbox, then the kn, then there is a square ducati rim, I can check number but it looks like the entire lid has been cut off keeping just the sides. this holds the filter in place and runs fine. although Im gonna call ducati in the morrow as there is a very slight chance water could get in. Ill have a better look in daylight. btw folks I dont want to waste money on kn filter cleaner/oil whats a good alternative?
Alex

[A Yerbury]

drill it, the experts do, the lid is seriously restrictive with a done carb....
http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/900carbairbox.html
and heres a Dyno print...(ok not a monster but the proof is in the pudding is in the print out)
AY
I'm yet to hear how much these dp open lids cost.

[A Yerbury]

And heres their dp kit (ducati get their perf filters not from k & n but ffc,fbc, bbc? I forget but anyway) this looks like a lid with the top lopped off!
Alex.
its a word doc as i couldnt get a jpg from the pdf...wtf! is this AOK 4u?
AY.

[stef]

I'll stop at cobbs and jaeger at lunch time, to investigate on cost.
i guess as long as the gap on the sides is air tight, it's fine.

[Fosse Foxfight]

And heres their dp kit (ducati get their perf filters not from k & n but ffc,fbc, bbc? I forget but anyway) this looks like a lid with the top lopped off!
Alex.
its a word doc as i couldnt get a jpg from the pdf...wtf! is this AOK 4u?
AY.
Actually the DP lid is more prone to water invasion.....I been bangin on all the time now.....just bloody drill it....well actually you need a hole saw a 2" (50mm) and you drill very neatly behind the air intake trumpets. I'll see if I can maybe borrow a camera next week and take a pic of mine......and its true, when you first mod it the induction noise is quite evil, :twisted: but you get used to it:(

ta ra

Sean

[stef]

I am fighting hard against the temptation here. i have a feeling i will have given up before the weekend is over.
what is the K&N filter actually design to work with, a completely open box, or just a 50mm hole in it ? because if i decide to butcher it, i may go all the way, and take the jigsaw to it.

[Fosse Foxfight]

I am fighting hard against the temptation here. i have a feeling i will have given up before the weekend is over.
what is the K&N filter actually design to work with, a completely open box, or just a 50mm hole in it ? because if i decide to butcher it, i may go all the way, and take the jigsaw to it.

Well, Im not sure what K&N decided but remember that a complete open box is open to the elements and if you do wet weather riding the modded air box is the best way.......in actual fact the experts recommend 3 x50mm holes arranged 000 ie from left to right and to provide some weather protection drill behind the intake trumpets.

[stef]

looks to me as the more holes the better, as you said, as long as its weather proof..
has anyone gone the full ducati suite way, with pods and no airbox ?
(maybe worth starting a new thread, called air box mod !)

[A Yerbury]

I thought about it but was reccomended against the pods, they look neater but are a bit exposed for this weather, Im in london this weekend so I may get a standard and do some drilling as I have found a few mm of h20 in the box before! yes there is a breather in the box but still...mind you the dp one rises at the front offering protection but the guy that did mine cut it level square all around. again is there an altermnative oil to use on kn s as opposed to a vat of their own stuff?
Alex

[A Yerbury]

Id use one of those drill attachments over jigsaw stef

[stef]

yes, good question alessandro.. how do you clean your K&N ? (especially if it has been sitting in a dust bin for about 3 weeks ?)

[A Yerbury]

they recomend their own stuff (suprise) dont use a petrol base to clean em, apparently compressed air is good (garage air machine?) then a thin oil to catch moisture and gubbins. but Im hoping a cheapskate professor will be along soon with alternatives...altough apparently they are very robust and only need a clean every 50,000 miles?!

[nik_the_brief]

Yes please. Could you post a piccie of your modified box, I think I get the gist of what you're suggesting but would like to be absolutely sure before I get out my drill and holecutting attachment thingy and start making holes in the standard box. :D

[A Yerbury]

standard monster lid is 14 quid, dp open lid and filter kit is 50, kn cleaning kit (1 part cleaner 1 part oil) is about 15.

[A Yerbury]

rem nkb putting holes in a monst with the standard carb set up may cause probs from running too lean.
Alex

[spacemonkey]

Ok... O have a completely cut open airbox lid. I have left as much of the edges as the filter will allow, and I have never had water get on the element, and when I actually have the bike I ride in all weathers all year around. Stef, just cut the top off and stop being a girl-as Alex the Wise stated a new lid is only £14 so if you ever wanted to replace it you could buy a new one, but believe me, no one in their right mind would want to revert. There is absolutely no reason why you, or anyone else, would. This is the number one modification we all do!

Alex, I was advised by my old classic car mech that the cheap easy way to clean K&Ns is to use and airline, then petrol, then, when dry, spray with WD40. I have done this to the Spitfire, and had no problems whatso ever. You just have to make sure you let the petrol dry thoroughly before the next step. And don't smoke while you're doing it...

[james007]

here is an excellent site with a bunch of mods to keep you occupied all winter.

http://www.ducatisuite.com/mods.html

:twisted:

[stef]

ok, i may do that this weekend. but i wil probably buy a top right away..
my insurance states no mods on the bike.. of course, i have no mods !

[A Yerbury]

there was a kn cleaning kit on ebay for 7.50 so I got that as it seemed cheap and as we all know parcels=xmas vibes.

[Fosse Foxfight]

Yes please. Could you post a piccie of your modified box, I think I get the gist of what you're suggesting but would like to be absolutely sure before I get out my drill and holecutting attachment thingy and start making holes in the standard box. :D
Soz old fruit, I been negelecting me threads :rolleyes: I'll try and do it over de weekend, Im currently spending me evenings making me new house uninhabitable by ripping out the bathrooms and loos so the council dont charge me council tax til we move in :p

ta ra me ducks......and Phoenixs xxxxx