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Gadget
21-09-2004, 02:51 PM
I bought my replacement Monster last week. Mine got nicked acouple of months back.
What a lovely looking machine.

But looks are often deceiving.
Vimal, the chap I bought the bike from, thought he had a starter motor problem and was going to get it sorted before I came to look at the bike. He phoned me back saying that the shop that the bike had been at didn't know about the side stand switch and that that was all the problem was. On the morning I picked up the bike Vimal could not get the bike to start first time. A couple of key twists side stand up and downs datatool alarm on/offs and everything was running lovely.

Cut to the chase.

She will not start. I have all the lights, I have checked and cleaned all the switch gear and it seems fine. The solenoid gives a click when the starter button is pressed. I charged the battery this morning at work so I am hoping that that is okay. On another thread I read about the starter relay, 1" yellow cube under seat, if this is faulty will the solenoid get any juice. The side stand switch on my bike is unmodified but you can hear that click from under the seat as you lift and lower it. So I think that is okay also. I am at the end of my electrical knowhow now. Not a lot I know. Can somebody suggest what to do next.

Thanks
Gary

spacemonkey
21-09-2004, 03:23 PM
Firstly, I take it the battery is FULLY charged, as a low battery will do as you state but won't give mroe than a click. If this isn't it, have you tried knocking the starter motor with something solid as it might be stuck? I suppose that if you knew which contacts did what you could manually start it, that is bypass the switch by shorting the two terminals on the relay/solenoid that run the starter motor. This will eliminate the relay/solenoid. Have you checked the relay/solenoid's connections?

Gadget
21-09-2004, 04:04 PM
As it is nearly home time I asked an other biker type here to give me a bump start I am going to try that next in about 30 minutes. If she runs I will buy a new battery. But first I will give the starter a whack. It may save some running about.
Cheers.

A Yerbury
21-09-2004, 05:06 PM
if you fiddle with the starter connector bolt it may well tear, the protective boot makes a nice water bucket.....only go the space route if there is no current there as if it does tear the "brush kit" is only 11 quid, mind you they do not supply a bolt grommet (that tears TOO) so you ll need to bodge one up (corner of a vhs cassette) and youll need to remove lh case, lh foot rest (watch out for the sidestand!) and the lh can oh and the gear shift too. marvelous design....heres hoping its just the batt or relay!
Alex

Gadget
21-09-2004, 08:19 PM
Got the bike to bump start with a little help. When warm the starter still does not turn. Even after the nasty man hit her several times with a hammer.

I went to Aye-Gees in Welling and bought a new battery.
Quote " Sealed unit. £81.00. Have you got a special charger? Can't use a normal car charger. Have you got an optimate?"

The nice man is charging it overnight for me. I will pick it up in the morning when they open. I am gonna be very late for work. But I need to stay off public transport. It makes me bad tempered. Work will understand...
I hope for the money (overdraught) it is the battery.
I will let you know once I get to work.

ttfn
Gary

spacemonkey
21-09-2004, 09:02 PM
I Tried to use Kens red wonderbuses last Friday afternoon. One bus came along and was full so wouldn't let anyone on. So I started walking. Other buses going in the right direction, but not all the way were also all full and overflowing. So I kept walking. And it rained a bit.. but i kept walking while checking evry bus that went past. Finally got within 1mile of my objective when the next bus came along. And it was overfull again. So I had ended up walking 8 miles and only saw two overcrowded buses. So the future is buses, eh Ken?? Tosser....

A Yerbury
21-09-2004, 09:46 PM
dont let them catch you on bus lanes either the swines! btw space if its poss could you have a gander at the speed trap lines on camden road? Im not going to be here for the Kafka stuff but Im curious whether they are 1, 1.5 or 2 metres apart, looks like 1.5 in which case I was doing 33.5 mph not 44...bloody machines, theyre taking over! hopefully it is just the batt gary but if it is the starter motor keep me posted, did mine recently and I "may" be able to offer some tips.
tata.

Gadget
22-09-2004, 12:41 PM
I have replaced the battery. Wasted £81.00. I managed to bump the bike on my own so can still get to work. Would the relay prevent the bike from starting seeing as the solenoid gives a healthy twitch when the starter is pressed. I think it is more likely to be the brushes in the starter motor itself. I will have to get them done. Soon. Any special tools needed? How long can I expect to spend doing the job? Lots of questions.

A Yerbury
22-09-2004, 01:09 PM
ducati shoulld be able to deliver it next day, the motor is held in place by 3 bolts inside the lh case , so drain oil and take case off, but of course to do that the gear lever, footrest hanger can yadda yadda yadda need to come off too! once the motor is off undo the two long bolts holding the lid on (2 small o rings on these so keep safe)replace the bits from the kit and reassemble, its fiddly but not the most fiddly if you know what I mean. as I mentioned ducati dont supply an insulating grommet which is daft as that tends to ear, any way all this is just a piece of square plastic with a hole for the bolt with a square "lip/ridge" to hold it firm, essentially a square plastic washer really that sits in the square recess in the base of the motor lid. its job is to insure that the current travelling down the wire and into the motor does not touch the metal casing of the motor thus dissipating the current. I used a bit of a vhs box and a blob of araldite to hold it in place. then when you put it all back together you can run the starter round the lh side keeping cam covers fuss free!
its not difficult but it took me a few hours. hangers cans and levers are easy the fiddle with the lh case is the oil drain needed (unless you can lean the bike over safely like the rh side) and support the lh case if you cant unclip the alternator wire. oh and youll need some 3bond gasket for when the case goes back. haynes is actually fine for this job, starter motor bits all clearly shown. the bits are cheap but getting to them is a bind... 11 quid diy or (Im guessing a bit) 150 at a garage?

Gadget
22-09-2004, 01:20 PM
Thanks Alex.
I have been onto sparesshack and am waiting for a call back . I will have a go at the weekend if it isn't raining and the parts arrive.
Gary

madhatter
22-09-2004, 01:27 PM
Thanks Alex..... I will have a go at the weekend if it isn't raining and the parts arrive.....

Also make sure you have;

1) A small defencless animal to kick (next door's cat is perfect).

2) A variety of expletives ready to hand when the "feckin, fecker won't feckin well fit on the feckin....." etc.

3) A large hammer to lob at the wall or anything else solid (next door's cat is perfect).

4) Beer and choclate in large quantity to stuff when it still doesn't work after you have removed most of the skin off your knuckles and stink of petrol, oil and grease.

Yes, you can see I do my own Ducati servicing, maintenance and repairs.

Good Luck mate.. ;) :D

Gadget
24-09-2004, 11:31 AM
The parts have arrived. Gasket sealant and araldite.
Plasters, Next doors cat on a promise, rosary and my old Haynes Ducati, 2 valve, v-twin manual. And I have to go to work on it on Sunday.

Fingers crossed also.

A Yerbury
24-09-2004, 12:19 PM
heres a jpg of how I made mine, corner of vhs lid as two of the ridges are already there just cut drill and blob.

Gadget
20-10-2004, 02:34 PM
Finally. I got time to do the little job of replacing the brushes. Power cable off. Engine case off. 3 bolts holding the motor to the engine, 2 Allen bolts on the inside of the casing, easy to undo as they are always lubricated. 1 on the outside, the 6mm bolt has sheared flush with the engine.
Why did I bother?
At least the bike would start with bump. Does anybody have idea how to remove this bloody stud (ex-bolt) thing. I really don't want to have to put it all back together again still busted. It is awkward to get at and there is nothing to get any purchase on.

A Yerbury
20-10-2004, 02:38 PM
thats a sod, I thought they were all inside? oh well, I would try a small titanium bit and do a bit of drilling for a purchase point?

Gadget
20-10-2004, 02:44 PM
I will give it a go.
Its raining again. I took a day off work to do this because today is supposed to be the driest day for the next week or so. I feel really lucky somedays.

A Yerbury
20-10-2004, 03:03 PM
jeez this servers slow at the moment, I see the one you mean, try rotating the motor itself, effectively undoing it from the outside (inside?) that should loosen it or once off use mole grips. you can also swing it out enough to access the two long bolts holding it all together then pull motor out.
good luck.
Alex

Gadget
20-10-2004, 04:05 PM
I had a moment of clarity.
I went to my local DIY shop and bought a 3.5mm drill bit and a stud extracting kit. 20 minutes of drilling and I am really P****d. So I go to a retail store and buy another drill bit. 20 seconds of drilling and I have a lovely pilot hole for my extracting tool. Which shears off in the hole after 2 half turns. 1 small storm cloud and some well prepared words and I have my money back and a stud extractor wedged in my F****** bike. I am no longer a pleasant person... Mild mannered... Calm...
I am running out of daylight.

PaulS
20-10-2004, 04:30 PM
Obviously if there's enough of the extractor showing you'll be trying to twist it out with a pair of grips? Otherwise you'll be needing to buy the hardest drill bit you can get to drill it out. Personally I've never had much success with those tapered stud extractors. Once you have removed the remains of the extractor I would drill out the bolt with progressively larger bits until you reach the tapping size of the original thread and then use a tap to remove the last bits of the bolt and re-cut the thread. It's always a bitch when these seemingly simple jobs turn to **** so you have my comiserations!

Gadget
20-10-2004, 06:18 PM
I have just finished putting the bugger back together. The stud extractor is now flush with the engine casing. The new bits I bought have started to slip so before I drill any of the casing, rather than the stud, I quit.
I have only to tweak the casing nuts and fill her with oil and I am back at square 1 again.

Albie
20-10-2004, 06:22 PM
But have you fixed the starter problem though?? :bunny: There are ways round the bolts scenario.

A Yerbury
20-10-2004, 06:25 PM
As I said it should rotate on that one bolt? and as albert said have you got the starter fixed? these things are a drag I know!!

Gadget
20-10-2004, 06:34 PM
The starter will not twist. The stud holds the motor off center and the shaft goes through the center so it is held in 2 places. I will have to keep bumping it for a while longer. Or until I can find a way to remove whats left of the stud. I have also to bleed the clutch I nearly forgot about that.

A Yerbury
20-10-2004, 06:44 PM
Of course it does, silly me...famous last words but of all the bleeding I found the clutch the easiest. I've used small chisel and hammer in the past to knock things anti clockwise.

gary tompkins
21-10-2004, 06:40 PM
Broken studs, extractors, drills and taps can be removed from alloy casings with a machine called a spark eroder. A very high current is passed down a water-cooled hollow copper electrode, which is gradually wound in to the hole as the stud etc. is burnt away. The catch is the engine usually has to be stripped, or at least removed from the bike to load it to the eroder, and the remaining thread usually has to be helicoiled afterwards.

We used to do this work a lot to salvage castings when working as an apprentice in a tool room. There may be a local engineering firm prepared to take the work on, but it won't a be cheap fix in terms of time/labour though, maybe £50-100?

BTW you are wasting your time trying to drill it out, as the extractor is a lot harder than most HSS drills. The drill will either break or wander off into the softer alloy casing trashing it :eek:

bod
21-10-2004, 07:17 PM
Sorry if i'm a little late on the help side but have you tried a hot spanner on it?
I know its alloy but a little warmth form a blow torch(plumers use them, about £15 for B&Q) could help and then tease it out with some more grips and some WD40.

A Yerbury
21-10-2004, 08:03 PM
its flush so no grip.