Help! My 750 Won't Stop!!!

[madhatter]

So I left home Friday and fueled up 10 miles later with no problems. I arrived at the Bike Rally 35 miles further on, pulled into the parking area to book in, switched the ignition switch off and the starter motor kicked in and wouldn't stop!!!!!!! :eek: :eek:

I pushed the starter button several times, which springs back as it should do, I removed it from the handlebars, there doesn't appear to be a short? I pushed the Engine Stop/Run button several times, with no effect. I turned the ignition back on and the bike starts up. All the time I'm doing this, the starter motor is still whirling over and over. Only good thing is that when the engine fires, the starter motor appears to stop spinning (Is this right? Is it wired to cutout when the motor fires? Or am I riding with it turning over and burning itself out?).

So with the engine still running, tank up, seat off, I've pulled out the 30A master fuse and the 30A charging circuit fuse, with no effect. Behind the Battery are the two horizontal and vertical cylinder HT coils and two relays (ignition control units?), each relay has two plugs going into it. Both relays are the same part number, so I swopped these over and pulled plugs in and out, all with no effect.

In the finish I had to disconnect the battery to get it to stop! :o

I now see from my Haynes "Bible" that there is a specific starter motor relay, my question is does this relay have a direct live feed from the battery and has hence stuck on, providing a permanant live feed to the starter motor from the battery, which is why the ignition switch nor nothing else will stop it? Or is there a solonoid somewhere else that is causing the same problem?

I'd appreciate any answers from Fellow Monsterers who may have a better understanding of this electrical issue than my limited electrical knowledge.. :confused: :confused: ....of cause, the other Jap and Harley bikers had a bloody field-day with yet another dodgy electrical ducati.. :o ...bollox!!! :mad: :mad:

[gary tompkins]

Saw this happen a few years ago on a 900 monster at the ACE Cafe meet, and we had to disconnect the battery then too. I think the fault was with the starter solonoid which had shorted itself out, so the starter motor kept spinning, even when the ignition was turned off! :eek:

Think the solonoid is under the right hand side of the fuel tank on your monster, so might be worth a look and fairly cheap to replace.

[madhatter]

.....I think the fault was with the starter solonoid which had shorted itself out, so the starter motor kept spinning, even when the ignition was turned off. I Think the solonoid is under the right hand side of the fuel tank on your monster, so might be worth a look and fairly cheap to replace.

Sounds exactly like my problem Gary. Nothing other than disconnecting the battery would stop it. I thought at one point it was possessed and I needed a Priest! :o

There is a starter relay mounted in a rubber sleeve, on a bracket, towards the bottom of the right-hand-side of the air filter. I think this has shorted out providing a permanant live feed to the starter motor. I can't see a solonoid anywhere, nor does one seem to be referenced in my Haynes Manual text or the wiring diagram, just the starter relay. Do you think this relay could be what you are referring to??

Does anyone else know of a solonoid on the 1997 models and if so where is it in relation to the starter relay I've described above? I'm guessing that the 1997 900 shared the same circuitry as the 750?

[PaulS]

Solenoid is just another name for a relay in this context. The starter relay (aka starter solenoid) you have identified is almost certainly the thing causing your problem.

[madhatter]

Solenoid is just another name for a relay in this context. The starter relay (aka starter solenoid) you have identified is almost certainly the thing causing your problem.

Paul / Dave thanks for confirming my suspicions. It's right there under the battery box. ;)

After lifting the petrol tank, removing the +ve and negative battery leads and the battery breather pipe, the battery and the battery box gasket can be lifted out. If you remove the allen bolt from the starter relay end, it gives you just (and only just) enough room to wiggle the relay rubber off it's bracket. Unplug the connector and disconnect the two nuts holding the starter motor cable and the battery +ve cable assembly, and the relay can be removed.

It's a Hitachi 12V relay, but the serial number has been damaged, so all I can see is ****181. Can anyone get a clearer view of the number on there's? You may be able to see it on the end of the relay with a torch.
The downloadable Ducati parts list describes it as "Remote Switch" (Teleruttore) Part Number: 397.4.001.1A.

I'm obviously now asking myself how much a Ducati Dealer will charge for one, vs, finding one on the internet, RS, Farnell, or possibly direct through Hitachi, any thoughts Guys?

I'll ring Ducati St.Neots and Ducati Northampton tomorrow and ask the million$ question.... :D

[gary tompkins]

Don't forget to give Stuart at Spareshack, Nattyboy or Superlight Lee a try via PM's. They may have a new or secondhand replacement in stock, but I'm sure the new part from Ducati won't cost you £££'s ;)

You can always borrow one from a mates monster, and try swapping to confirm yours is a duffer before buying one?

[madhatter]

Don't forget to give Stuart at Spareshack, Nattyboy or Superlight Lee a try via PM's. They may have a new or secondhand replacement in stock....

Thanks Gary, I've dropped a PM through to Stuart and Natty. I can't PM Superlight as he is not registered, but I've dropped him a message through e-bay ;)

I'll make further enquiries tomorrow, unless someone comes on tonight who has one immediately to hand....thanks for your help again Guys....this is just the sort of thing that makes this forum so good! :D

[mick]

Hi..i think most relays are the same...just able to handle different AMPS...usually the tags are numbered...either four or five connections..any relay i think will do the job ?

Mick

[madhatter]

Hi..i think most relays are the same...just able to handle different AMPS...usually the tags are numbered...either four or five connections..

This one is mounted in a rubber body that pushes onto a steel bracket (no other fixings to mount on bike) it also has two "nutted" connections, one for the +ve flylead assembly, the other for the starter motor feed wire. It also has a female socket for a two terminal square plug....maybe the insides do the same function as any other relay, but the connection points on this one are a bit more specific......thanks anyway Mick! ;)

[DesmoDog]

Hatter I'm sure that you've checked this, but when I had problems during the summer the same thing happened when I tried to start it after the bike cut out. The mechanic rekons the same problem can occur when the battery is really low. Might be worth a shot. In the end I think I had him replace the relay anyway.

[manc skank]

my 97 750 pulled that stunt too. battrey was low and starter switch was too tight on handle bars. loosened starter switch and that solved the problem. maybe? the same?

[madhatter]

my 97 750 pulled that stunt too. battrey was low and starter switch was too tight on handle bars. loosened starter switch and that solved the problem. maybe? the same?

Desmo/Manc, thanks for the feedback guys, interesting idea about the low battery. Assuming the charging system is working on the bike, after riding 35 miles, I assume it should have been fully charged and likewise when I got home it should also have be fully charged, which tends to bring my thoughts back to the starter relay again.

I loosened the starter button on the handlebars (even took it right off) without any effect and the button seems to spring back ok, so I think this is ok. Also would the starter button not require the ignition to be switched on? Remember the starter motor turns regardles of ignition, key or kill switch.

What do you think? :confused:

[slob]

Also would the starter button not require the ignition to be switched on? Remember the starter motor turns regardles of ignition, key or kill switch.
I've seen a low battery do this before.
Remember the killswitch/key only control the Low Ampage side of the solenoid(preventing the starter motor kicking in), once the high Ampage side has stuck open the circuit is complete and your starter motor will just keep spinning until the battery is completely dead.
This happens on a low battery because the contact plate doesn't jump over cleanly, sparks and effectively spot-welds itself across the high Ampage terminals.

[madhatter]

....I've seen a low battery do this before.....once the high Ampage side has stuck open the circuit is complete and your starter motor will just keep spinning until the battery is completely dead. This happens on a low battery because the contact plate doesn't jump over cleanly, sparks and effectively spot-welds itself across the high Ampage terminals.

Rob, do you think the charging circuit is faulty? As I said, I rode for 35 miles both ways and as soon as I stopped and turned off the ignition the starter motor started spinning? Or are you saying that once the relay contact plate has effectively spot-welded itself in position with a low battery, it doesn't matter how much the battery is charged up afterwards, because the damage is done in the relay and it is effectively "permantly on"!

What do you think?

[PaulS]

From the symptoms you're describing I still think it's almost certainly a faulty starter relay causing the problem. It may have been precipitated by a low battery but if the contacts have now fused as Rob describes then the relay will need to be replaced anyway. This is a well known problem with frequent failure of these relays, though not always with the symptoms you have - sometimes the bike won't start at all. The fact that the starter motor has a direct (unfused) feed from the battery via the starter relay means that if the relay jams on then the motor will be running constantly whether the engine is running or not (there is a clutch that disengages the motor once the engine is running) and whatever fuse you pull or kill switch position you use will not make any difference. Don't use the bike if you can avoid it until you have fixed it as you're not doing the starter motor or starter clutch any good. Whilst the principals behind all relays are the same you willl need one that is specific to this application - it may not need to be exactly the same Hitachi part but will need to have the same rating and packaging to fit. You may be able to find a cheaper source but I believe they cost less than £20 from a Ducati dealer so why mess about?

[NattyBoy]

Thanks for the mention Gary..just PM's you back MH....Ive got some new ducati starter relays (as per your part number)... £20 posted (£28 from a dealer if that helps).

Cheers
Nat

[madhatter]

From the symptoms you're describing I still think it's almost certainly a faulty starter relay causing the problem......if the contacts have now fused as Rob describes then the relay will need to be replaced anyway....This is a well known problem with frequent failure of these relays....the fact that the starter motor has a direct (unfused) feed from the battery via the starter relay means that if the relay jams on then the motor will be running constantly whether the engine is running or not (there is a clutch that disengages the motor once the engine is running) and whatever fuse you pull or kill switch position you use will not make any difference.....I believe they cost less than £20 from a Ducati dealer......

Thanks Paul, that's the conclusion I was coming to as well, following Rob's comments about the relay effectively spot-welding itself in position, and now being effectively defunct! Also, now I think back, the bike did seem to turn over slowly when I first set off on Friday, possibly indicating a low battery.

Thanks also to Stuart (spareshack) and Nattyboy for coming back to me with quotes for a replacement relay, so quickly. ;)

[slob]

Rob, do you think the charging circuit is faulty?

How healthy was your battery in the first place. Batteries do have a finite life and need replacing eventually. I don't have enough experience of monsters specifically but would think replacing a lead-acid battery every five years or so is the norm. Eventually all the chemical reaction gets 'used-up' and there's nothing you can do. If you don't use the bike in winter, disconnect the battery and take it indoors, they don't like extreme cold either.

[gary tompkins]

Hi..i think most relays are the same...just able to handle different AMPS...usually the tags are numbered...either four or five connections..any relay i think will do the job ?

Mick

As you say most relays perform the same job, but some are designed to switch more current than others. The monster has a starter relay, which controls the low Amps 12volt feed to the kill switch, starter motor, coils, fuel injection etc.. This is one of the small black (or yellow on early bikes) boxes, usually located under the tank near the battery box. It can be heard clicking when the ignition is switched on/off, can cause all sorts of weird starting problems or cutting out if faulty, but usually costs less than £5 to replace.

The Starter motor relay (solenoid) is very heavy duty, fed direct from the battery and designed to cope with the 30+ Amps current that the motor draws to spin the engine over. The solenoid is mounted on the frame under the petrol tank, and if faulty will either leave the starter dead, or short circuit closed leaving the motor spinning after the button is released.

MadHatter,
Didn't realise Superlite had left the forum, glad the others got back to you though. Hope you get it sorted mate ;)

[bod]

Hi did this on my 04 plate 620 with only 1300 miles / a quick tap with a hammer (my best tool) on the starter soleniod fixed it!
My dealer had them in stock so guess there a problem part.
Cheep contacts in the solenoid are my guess!

[A Yerbury]

is the solenoid the metal cased finned jobbie at the front?

[slob]

That sounds like a regulator Alex. Solenoids are usually a small cylinder, major clue being 2 little wires + 2 bl**dy big fat ones. Follow the fat cables from your battery pos. or starter motor if you're not sure.

[gary tompkins]

is the solenoid the metal cased finned jobbie at the front?

As Slob said - that is the Rectifier/regulator unit. Don't try tapping that with a hammer or you'll be forking out £££ for a new one :(

The solenoid is tucked up below the tank near the battery box, and held to the frame by a rubber strap mounting.

[A Yerbury]

I see, thanks, electrics wise I'm getting there.... slowly!

[logyk]

Help please!!!!!!

I had the solenoid problem on the trip to Skegness today. The starter motor was continually spinning when I switched the ignition off on arrival. Only had a screwdriver which wouldn't shift the battery terminals so I switched back on and rode home (about 55 miles) with barely enough fuel.....did the last 21 miles on reserve but dare not stop for fuel !!!!

Would you believe it ...when I got home I left it running whilst I sorted a spanner out to disconnect the battery terminal....but when I switche d the ignition off all went silent. Does this mean the solenoid has unearthed itself ....is this possible ?

I have put the battery on charge and will put some petrol in and try it a little later .......any suggestions would be much appreciated.

And worst of all I missed the fun in Seggy :mad: :mad: :mad:

[gary tompkins]

You might be lucky and the solenoid has un-stuck itself, or less lucky and the starter motor has fried itself on the run back. Try pressing the starter button when the battery has re-charged, and if the engine refuses to turn over either your starter motor, solenoid or both are buggered. You can eliminate the starter by carefully shorting the bolted +/- terminals on the solenoid with a spanner, if the motor spins up ok then its deffo the solenoid that's naff.

Oh and check that the starter button isn't sticking in, if the pinch screws on the R/hand switchgear are overtightened, it can cause the button to jam on.

This happened to me in the garage after fitting clip-on bars, thankfully the bike wasn't in gear... oh how I laughed :eek:

[madhatter]

Help please!!!!!! I had the solenoid problem on the trip to Skegness today. The starter motor was continually spinning when I switched the ignition off on arrival.........when I got home I left it running whilst I sorted a spanner out to disconnect the battery terminal....but when I switched the ignition off all went silent.....

This really does sound like a common problem :eek: .I've got a replacement starter motor relay (or solonoid as some call it), which I've fitted, recharged the battery and all appears to be running fine now (fingers crossed) :rolleyes: . The starter motor relay is mounted on a rubber support, which is pushed onto a bracket sitting underneath your battery box (see my earlier post for removal). It has one "nutted" connection for the +ve cable assembly and another for the starter motor cable assembly. There is also a two pin plastic plug which pushes into it. The problem seems to be due to the relay connector welding itself in position due to a low battery :mad: .

It may be ok now logyk, but I'm not sure if it will reappear in the future :confused:, Spareshack, Nattyboy and Superlight can all supply these relays if you want one.

Best of luck mate!

STEVE.

[Bruza]

Guys I have had this. I got it after 2 miles when my bike was brand new.

Had to drive back to the dealer and complain. Only with the key out would the starter stop running.

Mechanic walked straight up to the bike and tapped a little round black plastic cover just below where your right knee would be. stopped instantly.

Apparently a very common issue, one that I have had a few times since... single light tap on the cover and all is well.

Sorry no chance I can do a photo and my tech knowledge is not up to naming it!

Try it !

Worked for me.