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View Full Version : Powder coating, paint or stove enamel?


marchesini
02-09-2004, 09:51 AM
I'm looking into getting various bits and pieces 'coloured' on my bike but there seem to a variety of finishes available. Anyone know the benefits/downsides or cost differences to painting, powdercoating and stove enameling. I guess most of the finishes would be lacquered anyway so I guess they will all look the same anyway?? Are some more resistant to chipping etc.

Thanks

best regards

simon

A Yerbury
02-09-2004, 10:15 AM
which bits? and who will be doing it? paining is a diy thang so cheap and good if you take your time. powder coats are better in terms of finish and longevity but will cost more.

marchesini
02-09-2004, 10:31 AM
which bits? and who will be doing it?

just throwing around ideas at the moment and a lot dependent on cost but mainly the swingarm and trellis frame. The tank, cowl and other normal stuff will obviously be painted and lacquered but it is the frame and swingarm which are the questionable areas.

As to who will be doing it, I'm talking to a few people but have a few names so they should all be good people.

Thanks

simon

A Yerbury
02-09-2004, 11:57 AM
ahh, well I take it you realise powdercoating would recquire a complete strip down of the bike. which is a cost to consider (unless you take it all apart yourself)

DesmoDog
02-09-2004, 11:57 AM
Was it m900Dom who had his baby powder coated? He reckoned that the prices were comparable, but the finish was much better. I also read somewhere about stove enamel being too brittle, but I think that was on the exhaust. The thread is here somewhere called "my project with piccies - hopefully" or something like that. He includes links.

A Yerbury
02-09-2004, 12:00 PM
it was, he's the chap to speak to really. I did frame and swing arm in situ. not quite a showroom finish but no longer looks like a grubby ten year old bike.

DesmoDog
02-09-2004, 12:04 PM
Alex, did you paint the swing arm? Or have you polished it? Does anyone know about polishing? You can't buy the "rouges" here to do it with, only kits. Or does anyone else know different?

A Yerbury
02-09-2004, 12:30 PM
I painted (the exposed steel started to rust after polishing -durrr) and I wanted as much of the frame/engine/arm etc gloss black. x is polished adjuster ends and y is the arm of roadracing minimudguard thing. paint was brush on 1 layer red oxy primer 2 layers vht gloss black and a few blasts of tough lacquer with some carbon adhesive to fend of stone chips. obviously no cans in this pic.

DesmoDog
02-09-2004, 12:36 PM
do you use a spray gun for the laquer

crust
02-09-2004, 12:58 PM
Alex, did you paint the swing arm? Or have you polished it? Does anyone know about polishing? You can't buy the "rouges" here to do it with, only kits. Or does anyone else know different?

here you go, they sell everything you need:


http://thepolishingshop.co.uk/

:) Crust

Pedro
02-09-2004, 01:13 PM
Powder coating is ideal for frame and stuff as it's very tough. The other option would maybe be 2Pack paint but it's gonna be more expensive. You'll probably get a slightly better finish with the 2 Pack - if memory serves it's epoxy based and durable but is also very toxic so you can't do it in yer shed!!

I've found a guy in Hampshire that will strip and powder coats wheels for about £50 and will do other stuff too.

I'd go for powder coat on frame, wheels etc and 2Pack paint on other stuff

Ped

DesmoDog
02-09-2004, 01:14 PM
Cheers crust, Ped dont you mean can't

grunter
02-09-2004, 02:59 PM
i got a man in slough sss for mine £20 black done in two days had me royal enfield frame done for about
£60 blasted and power coated

berto
02-09-2004, 07:28 PM
:cool: Give ak a shout he seems to do all that stuff

Phoenix
28-09-2004, 12:45 AM
Had my engine cases powder coated by local coaters, both sides and both hangers and foot pegs blasted. Cost me £50. Bit of a bitch to get them all back on again but was just a matter of tapping out one or two threads.
One sides great but had my regulater go just after i had them done and it spat battery acid out the overflow over the bottom of my case and kinda buggered it a bit. Not bad enough to make me take em off again though.
They do some fantastic finishes too.
http://www.redditchshotblasting.co.uk/

Spike
28-09-2004, 08:35 AM
Simon, I've got Doms old bike the finish is great and yes it was powder coated, stove enamel finish is a harder finish I think and more chip resitant both are good for frames not sure about the prices down sarf.

Fosse Foxfight
28-09-2004, 09:57 AM
Simon, I've got Doms old bike the finish is great and yes it was powder coated, stove enamel finish is a harder finish I think and more chip resitant both are good for frames not sure about the prices down sarf.

Nah, powder coating is more chip resistant that stove enamelling, Stoving is hard true, but its brittle, and chips quite easily, wheeras powder coating is more rubbery and much more durable....in the past stoving was used as its able to get a shinier deeper finish, much beloved of concours classic bike exhibitors....owners of decent :p machines should only used epoxy powder coats.

ta ra me ducks

Spike you got any pics of that bike of Doms, dont think he ever put any decent pics up of the finished article......is it still a 900 or 944 or what?

ta ra

NattyBoy
28-09-2004, 11:48 AM
Oi..simon...dont do your swingarm red or youll be copying me.. :p :p

Nat

marchesini
28-09-2004, 12:51 PM
Oi..simon...dont do your swingarm red or youll be copying me.. :p :p

Nat

Was thinking about it but have gone off that idea now. Besides you only got the idea because you saw my photoshop pictures - that's the last time I share my plans for world domination with you :mad: :mad:

Really though, haven't even picked up my bike yet as I've been working abroad so much but I hope to remedy that this weekend and then let the games begin :twisted: :twisted:

si

DesmoDog
28-09-2004, 01:01 PM
Spike,
Dom used powder coat on the frame and swing arm and 2 pack epoxy based vht on the engine block. Inspiring bike - mine will be undertaking a similar cosmetic transformation in the winter - I have a cunning plan for the engine block - cash and science permitting.

Spike
28-09-2004, 03:11 PM
Ill dig some pic's out later if I can find some, engine is 904 with high comp pistons and I think the ports have been done as well the valve seats have been recut as well. Only trouble with the bike being black and shinny is that its hard to get a close up photo with out the flash going off.

sidrat
28-09-2004, 07:21 PM
Don't know about the rest but here is the lowdown on powder coating.

The paint is electrically attached to the item you want to paint by giving the paint a positive charge and the item a negative charge. The problem with the powder is that it can be difficult to get an even coat on an item if there are places that you cannot get too easily, as the paint will attract to the nearest charged part and not into a nook or cranny, or is that crook and nanny??

Once the paint has gone through the oven to melt the powder the finish is very strong, (make sure your part can stand the heat) . We have painted steel tubes and then hit them together until they both dent and the paint does not chip or crack as it is very elastic.

Now the down side....if you do get some paint to come off, and the air gets underneath the paint, it will just peel off in strips and is very difficult if not impossible to repair once this has started. You should not powder coat wheels or frame parts where a crack can develop and not be noticed as the paint will cover them.

Hope this helps

A Yerbury
28-09-2004, 07:33 PM
interesting, I had a cx years ago with a pc frame (10 yrs ago I think..) any way powder coating was still the new thing at the time (new to jo pub, I'm sure the technology had been around a while) and the crack and peel happened in one spot so i can vouche for it occuring.
AY.

celt
28-09-2004, 07:44 PM
im in the powder coat camp as its pretty tough stuff. i just wish i was more techie minded and id strip bike down and send bits off.

Blackblood lives :twisted:

M900Dom
10-05-2005, 08:11 PM
I just checked back to my Monster Rebuild thread after reading this, and I never did post up the finished article pics.
I`ll did some out and Post them up
Cheers
Dom

celt
11-05-2005, 06:13 AM
cool dom :D

M900Dom
14-05-2005, 03:16 PM
cool dom :D

Pics from the day it was collected by Spike and Dru added the the "MY Project Update" Thread

All the Contacts and links for polishing and Powdercoating are in the thread.
Except for the Paintwork which was done by me ;) :D

Marchenesi:
Simon I am sorry, things just didnt work out as I hoped they would, but I am Glad you got someone sorted. Any pics of the result yet ?
Cheers
Dom

IpauloGTS
14-05-2005, 10:15 PM
Sorry if this is a repeat but I found this link useful when I was deciding what to do with my "best" bike.

http://my.execpc.com/~davewrit/Powder.html

Hope it helps.

Paul.

marchesini
18-05-2005, 12:19 AM
Simon I am sorry, things just didnt work out as I hoped they would, but I am Glad you got someone sorted. Any pics of the result yet ?
Cheers
Dom

Dave Wood has been doing the spanner work and has been really good about the whole project - putting in his ideas as well as poo-pooing a few of mine. Always nice to throw a few "I wonder if's ..." about the workshop every now and then. Unfortunately, no pics other than it in bits on the garage floor. I did check it out though a couple of days ago and it is beginning to look like a bike again now with lot's of shiny stuff which I didn't remember ordering. I'll start a new thread with pics when I get them.

There has been a slight hiccup with the painter in that he is not well at the moment and may not be returning to work anytime soon. If you are still interested in doing the paintwork and are set up for it, drop me a pm as there may be vacancy in that area. The frame and swingarm have been done and as far as I know, all of the other bits (tank, belly pan, mudguards, seat unit, wheels etc) have all been prepped ready to be painted. The decals are ready and just waiting for someone whose handy with a can of "Halfords Best" to weave their magic.

Take care fella and hope to hear from you soon

best regards

simon

Fosse Foxfight
18-05-2005, 09:07 AM
The decals are ready and just waiting for someone whose handy with a can of "Halfords Best" to weave their magic.


Huh? :confused: If youre decals are self adhesive I would not recommend lacquering or varnishing over them, if that what youre referring to. Leave all paintowrk/enamelling for 2-3 weeks before even touching it and then just apply the decals bare and thats it. Relying on different coats and materials to expand and contract at different rates is too risky, besides they just dont need it........now go on tell me you werent even referring to this :rolleyes:

ta ra me ducks

Sean

marchesini
18-05-2005, 11:12 AM
Huh? :confused: If youre decals are self adhesive I would not recommend lacquering or varnishing over them, if that what youre referring to. Leave all paintowrk/enamelling for 2-3 weeks before even touching it and then just apply the decals bare and thats it. Relying on different coats and materials to expand and contract at different rates is too risky, besides they just dont need it........now go on tell me you werent even referring to this :rolleyes:

ta ra me ducks

Sean

The decals are only going over the paintwork on the tank, seat unit etc. As it happens, none of the bike was powdercoated or enamelled anyway - I can't exactly remember why but I think it was down to paint matching - couldn't find the right shade of red that I was after. So after all this pub talk banter, I went for paint and polish all round.

Hope this clears up the confusion

best regards

simon

Fosse Foxfight
18-05-2005, 11:43 AM
The decals are only going over the paintwork on the tank, seat unit etc. As it happens, none of the bike was powdercoated or enamelled anyway - I can't exactly remember why but I think it was down to paint matching - couldn't find the right shade of red that I was after. So after all this pub talk banter, I went for paint and polish all round.

Hope this clears up the confusion

best regards

simon

Hmmm, still a tad :confused: ...what was the reference to Halfords Best...the message is still the same...dont lacquer over the decals.

S

M900Dom
18-05-2005, 02:07 PM
Hmmm, still a tad :confused: ...what was the reference to Halfords Best...the message is still the same...dont lacquer over the decals.

S

You Can laquer over decals, just need to know what your doing and use the right laquer and technique.
If you pick up a spray can of Cellulose you`ll get a reaction.
It all depends on the paint.
Any Decent Decal Manufacturer will tell you what to use and what procedure to follow.
It is a risk though, and a fine balancing act between tricking it to work with very very fine "Dust coats" which is really hard to get a decent finish, or laying on a bit thicker to get it to flow and running the risk of a reaction.
Water based or Acrylics are less likely to react, but harder to paint with.
Some 2K LAquers can be OK as well, but it depends on the decals.
HTH
Dom
Simon, I`ll be in touch ;) :D

marchesini
18-05-2005, 02:12 PM
Hmmm, still a tad :confused: ...what was the reference to Halfords Best...the message is still the same...dont lacquer over the decals.

S

Now you're confusing me. I thought it was common practice to lacquer over decals - never thought it was a problem. The only time I haven't had it done was when I knew I wanted to remove the decals at a later date i.e. race numbers. Besides, when using wax over decals, it leaves an ugly residue around the edges which doesn't look pretty.

Why shouldn't you lacquer over decals? Don't all Ducati's have the logo on the tank with lacquered over? Must say that I haven't looked that closely but I was sure that the Ducati decals are not removeable.

Confusion reigns

simon

Fosse Foxfight
18-05-2005, 08:33 PM
Now you're confusing me. I thought it was common practice to lacquer over decals - never thought it was a problem. The only time I haven't had it done was when I knew I wanted to remove the decals at a later date i.e. race numbers. Besides, when using wax over decals, it leaves an ugly residue around the edges which doesn't look pretty.

Why shouldn't you lacquer over decals? Don't all Ducati's have the logo on the tank with lacquered over? Must say that I haven't looked that closely but I was sure that the Ducati decals are not removeable.

Confusion reigns

simon
Hehe, you answered your own question. When theyre lacquered theyre not removable. If youre doing it yourself and you lacquer and it buggers up...its almost definite that youre gonna have to start again. If you let the pros do it then OK....but imho still best on our Monsters that we remain as flexible as possible. It leaves room to get fed up with your decals and change should you wish. Most classic bike restorers used to "coat" their decals/transfers on simply because the adhesives werent available, using varnishes and shellacs.
Put it like this.....lacquer em on...theyre there to stay........dont lacquer em on, and a kettle of boiling water and some lighter fuel and you have a clean surface ready to change style or position of your decals when you get bored.

ta ra

Sean