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View Full Version : Running on one and tried all I know - HELP!


IpauloGTS
06-08-2004, 09:19 PM
:confused:

Been away on holiday for about three weeks and return to find the bike which has never missed a beat will only run on the rear cylinder. No spark to the front and the sun is shining!

Expected a bit of condesation at the worst but..

Stripped everything down and tried as much as I can given illogical tendencies and this is what I find after a days head scratching.

Coils seem fine although secondary readings fall outside of Haynes limits of 10.8k ohms - 16.20 ohms with 16.29 and 16.71.

A few dodgy bits of wire but nothing that couldn't be eliminated.

However at the moment I can't get a reading across the terminals of the front pick up coil wheras the rear is spot on.

Questions:

Could the pick up coil give up the ghost just by standing for a couple of weeks?

Is it an easy job to replace it/them?

Am I missing something like another dodgy connection that could cause this?

And does anyone know (or have their tank up to see) which way the two wires (red/white) go into the connector block from the front pick up coil to the left hand ignition control unit (as you sit on the bike). I took them out without noting which way and they are the only ones not colour coded in Haynes.

Any leads (arf arf) gratefully received.

Cheers, Paul.

spacemonkey
07-08-2004, 01:32 AM
"And does anyone know (or have their tank up to see) which way the two wires (red/white) go into the connector block from the front pick up coil to the left hand ignition control unit (as you sit on the bike). I took them out without noting which way and they are the only ones not colour coded in Haynes."

I did the exact same thing! Trouble is my bike is still in the shop so I can't help..

Mine had tyhe same prob and it was simply thet the wires had frayed and snapped in the connectors themselves, and it wasn't visible. And the female part of the connector had stretched and thus wasn't connecting well. Pick up coils are a nightmare...

IpauloGTS
07-08-2004, 03:33 AM
Thanks Nick

"Pick up coils are a nightmare..."

I'll sleep soundly now.

Paul.

nik_the_brief
07-08-2004, 10:20 AM
Thay bloody well are, I had the same problem last year and it was compounded by the fact that I had to wait for the Ducati factory to have their summer holiday before I could get a new set delivered!

My pick up coil went after a few days just standing around as well. I eventually replaced the pair when the new 'uns arrived but wired it the wrong way around (it still ran but ate a spark plug in minutes). I had also forgotten to check out which way round the wires went.

I have to go out today but will check later and let you know which way round they go (unless I get beaten to it by another helpful member) :D

IpauloGTS
07-08-2004, 03:50 PM
Thanks Nik

No info. on correct way to wire yet but have continued my investigations and can't do much more till Monday.

Definitely no reading across front pick up leads which to me means there's a short circuit somewhere. The wires are a bit frayed at the end but not broken and it seems unlikely there would be a break inside the sheathing going down to the engine casing so I am left with the conclusion that the front pick up is a gonner. It's one of those things that drives me nuts - something giving up while sitting doing nothing!

Phoned Ducati Coventry but technical man not there till Monday but I was told that pick up coils and wiring are all available separately.
Is it received wisdom to do the lot? I presume it's a case of drain oil, split the case and replace the gasket afterwards. Do the new pick ups go on without messing up the timing?

Frustrated but thanks again for the advice.

Paul.

nik_the_brief
07-08-2004, 07:13 PM
The pick up coils and wiring sub-harness come as a complete set, you have to re-use the old plastic connectors though.

I'll certainly get back to you before the end of the weekend with the correct way round to wire them up (will try and take a couple of snaps to post up too).

Yep, the oil has to be drained as I found out to my detriment last year. Couldn't get another gasket and was told by Ducati Ashford that they no longer make 'em. Blue Hylomar does a reasonable job though.

As for the pick up coils themselves, refitting the new is no real hassle (the most difficult bit being threading the wires back through the grommet). The air gap should be fine if you leave the plates in place and just fix the new coils straight on to them.

Good luck on Monday. :)

IpauloGTS
07-08-2004, 10:54 PM
Cheers Nik

Nice to know someone's been there before but I bet I can find some new things to go wrong.

It seems crazy that Ducati can sell you the bits to go inside but not the gasket to put it back together.

Paul.

nik_the_brief
08-08-2004, 01:27 PM
Left one -

nik_the_brief
08-08-2004, 01:29 PM
and right -

gary tompkins
08-08-2004, 07:12 PM
This is weird. Had a butchers at my Haynes manual, and the wiring diagram there shows brown & green wires for the front cylinder pick-up, and brown & grey for the rear?

Nicks photos show what looks like red & white or yellow & black?

Confused - you will be :confused:

IpauloGTS
09-08-2004, 08:54 AM
Perfect Nik

I'll be talking to the parts dept. shortly.


Exactly Gary which is why I needed to see a pic. Those are the colours coming to the control unit from the ignition coils. Somewhere in the Ignition System chapter it does mention the red/white & yellow/black pairs though!

Cheers, Paul.

nik_the_brief
09-08-2004, 02:07 PM
Good luck.

I meant to say, splitting the crank case is not necessarily an easy job either. I couldn't find the right size or shape of puller for love nor money. In the end I had to improvise by making my own from three bolts and an old spanner with holes drilled through it at the appropriate points (as Space said - a total nightmare) but I got there in the end! :D

IpauloGTS
13-08-2004, 05:09 AM
Anyone else know where an appropriate puller can be obtained for removing the left hand crankcase cover?

From the pic in Haynes it looks like some kind of universal tool.

Cheers, Paul.

A Yerbury
13-08-2004, 11:08 AM
I found a spot of weld under the sprocket cover I could lever..just. once I had about 1 mm it all came out with a blunt plastic instrument. no more gaskets so you will need some 3bond.

stef
13-08-2004, 01:06 PM
me bike was also coughing up when i got back from holiday a couple of days ago.
managed to get to work on 1.5 cylinders, but it would not start in the evening. i had to call the recovery to get back home. I'll have a fiddle around this weekend.
I havent checked the coils yet...

IpauloGTS
26-09-2004, 05:16 PM
Well here I still am almost two months later without a running bike. Does that seem a bit excessive to wait for a simple part to anyone else? Not one single word of communication from Ducati Coventry or U.K. nor a reply to an email sent to Italy. Now there's customer service for you!!!

In the meantime I thought I might encourage them by preparing the job. Managed to borrow a puller and I've followed the procedure in Haynes but find that the cover won't come all the way off because it comes up against the casting where the side stand bolts on! No mention of this in the book.

Has anyone else had this problem and can it be resolved by removing the left hand footrest hanger? (or at least loosening it at all the fixing points).

Generally pissed -off with Ducati but haven't yet got out the lump hammer.

Paul.

A Yerbury
26-09-2004, 05:57 PM
I've had my cases on both sides off this year and yup, bloody awkward. The gear levers and hangers/ cans need to come off too, watch out on the lh side tho as the lower hanger bolt secures the side stand (which you guessed it comes off too) removing these things is dead easy but a pain. I also used a sharpie (pen) to mark the angle of the lever so putting it back in the right place was less of a chore.
Alex

spacemonkey
26-09-2004, 09:37 PM
If it6 makes you feel any better, I have been waiting for an essential camshaft and pulley since June. Isn't the factory wonderful , eh? Just 'cos they have nice riding weather all year, doesn't mean the rest of us have... Gits.

A Yerbury
26-09-2004, 11:28 PM
Im sure EU working condition harmonisation will soon put a stop to this "holiday" nonsense...

IpauloGTS
27-09-2004, 12:05 AM
What? You mean they shut down for two months. Well if only I'd known I'd have bought something else for my daily transport!

Thanks Alex - got the cover off by removing the bolt by the sidestand and just loosening the next one. No sign of a gasket or any 'instant' stuff either. It hasn't been leaking oil either.

Paul.

A Yerbury
27-09-2004, 12:24 AM
the instantaneous gasket should resemble a perkilly grey shade of rubbery goo, comes in a tube with attachments for attachment. Its called 3 bond and looks like ducati toothpaste would look like if they made such a product (and why not? we have ducati "writing machines") I digress....costs about 8 quid a tube, good luck with the reassmbly and ongoing electrical situation!
Alex

Woodsy1
01-03-2006, 06:41 PM
I did the same thing as IpauloGTS. I forgot to note, or more like just cant remember, which way round the the red and white wire go into the left/horizontel cylinder CDI. :banghead: Had to take them out of the two-pin terminal to get them through the casing to change the pickups. I tried putting the wires in both ways and both get a spark, so I'm a bit confused.

The pictures nik_the_brief posted are corrupted so I cant tell. Can anyone tell me which way is correct please? Just waited months for the part and now cant risk firing her up!

nik_the_brief
01-03-2006, 07:16 PM
Reposted the original pictures, hope it helps mate.

Woodsy1
01-03-2006, 11:52 PM
Thanks for the pics nik. Got it all wired up and went to start it for the first time in 5 months and nothing. Getting strong sparks its turning over but no BANG! Checked the spark plugs twice and they're dry. Drained both carb bowls and sure enough they're empty. I took off the tank for easy access to ignition, so is it possible that there is an airtrap. No mention of this in haynes manual! I guess the vacuum hoses could be nackered and not opening the fuel valve.

Looks like another late nite tommorow, Woodsy.

gary tompkins
01-03-2006, 11:57 PM
If both the carbs and pump are bone dry, you may need to crank the engine over for a while to pull the fuel through. The pump's vaccum operated so the engine needs to turn over to make it work. Make sure the battery has a good charge, and check a fuel line isn't kinked and cutting off the supply.

nik_the_brief
02-03-2006, 10:33 AM
Gary's spot on (as always in these things).

I've run dry a couple of times because my fuel light doesn't work and if there's an air lock in the fuel feed it's a bugger to sort.

I found the best way to sort it was to take the hose from the intake of the pump and suck the petrol through until you've filled the pipe. I'd advise you not to smoke after doing this and try not to swallow!

Once reconnected I used a few squirts of Bradex Easy Start (Halfords now sell a Holts Cold Start instead but it's the same stuff - 24% ether). The engine should fire for a short while on just that and it will help to pull the fuel through the rest of the system.

Speaking from experience of both I found that it's much easier to do this in your garage that by the side of a dual carriageway in the dark with only a Leathermans to work with.

Good news its that you appear to have sorted your ignition problem though. Glad the pictures were of help.