Cam belts- help

[Lona]

After the thread below, I got a bit panicky about my cam belts, so purchased a new set from Spareshack. I am trying to learn how to look after my own bike, so my husband said he would show me how to change the belts.
We tried for over an hour to get the new belts on, without success. They have the same number of teeth as the old ones, and only look very slightly shorter (about what you'd expect for new versus old)but there was no way they would fit, even after we removed the tensioner etc. The old ones look OK, so we've ended up putting them back on so I could go for a ride on Sunday, but obviously this is not a satisfactory long term solution.
So.... are they always complete b*gg*rs to fit (the Haynes manual says not to use any tools only "finger pressure"), or could we have got the wrong size?
Are there any tips on fitting them?
I don't want my beautiful motorcycle to disappear in a cloud of engine bits!

[rich]

Hi there,

I have just done the belts on my 600 and it was quite straightforward. Belts went on quite easily. Sounds like you have got the wrong size belts. Check with a Ducati dealer regarding age of 900 versus type of belt. Hope this helps. :)

[Pedro]

Lona

the belts can be a bit of a sh*t to change depending on the age of the bike - I'm told the earlier 900 has a slightly different pulley which makes it harder to get the belt on. I had to use a bit of brute force and some blunt levers to help things.

Word of warning - if you've taken the belts off, you really should replace them with new. Refitting old ones is a bit of a a no no so I've been advised.

Ped

[Rockhopper]

They should go on easily with no forcing required. Also the belts shouldnt stretch appreciably, particularly if they are the kevlar ones with the red writing on.

[Scotty]

out of curiosity how do you know that one of the sprockets doesnt more round a notch whilst your doing it ?
this is what has put me off even thinking about this sort of operation

[madhatter]

Great.....I was fairly confident about Thursday.....when I plan to do air filter, oil & oil filter, plug changes, plus change the belts and check clearances on my 1997 Monnie which at 13,500 miles is naughtily pass it's 12,000 mile belt change.....now I'm wondering if I'm not about to beat myself up with a large stick!! :confused:

Oh well (sigh) it's either the cheapskate way or passing large wedges of cash into the sweaty palms of a dealer.......yep! cheapskate way every time!!! :D :D

[A Yerbury]

use a small sticj to beat yourself . small=less wood = less fiscal outlay.

[A Yerbury]

.......................sticj??

[A Yerbury]

Scotty, there is a timing mark on the pulley and the belt housing.
AY

[madhatter]

Oh!!........a "sticj"..........or "stijkt" as it is more commonly known in it's Swedish homeland......I did try to find if I could get a cheap imported one from Homebase, but they are only available from Ikea and are far to expensive, for the Honourable Cheapskate.....so it looks like it's a bit of 3x3 from Jewsons......

[peteS4]

also if your really unsure about cogs moving when fitting new belts......... get some tipex and put very small makes where a cog is next to another part or the engine....... just like the bolts on front brakes tend to have a yellow make to show if bolt has moved/worked loose......... that way, you can see with ease if it is still in the exact same place as before you removed the belt

[PaulS]

my 1997 Monnie which at 13,500 miles is naughtily pass it's 12,000 mile belt change.....

If this is it's first belt change then you're actually 5 years past the belt change in the land of Ducati's wonderful mileage or time (whichever comes first) based service intervals.

[A Yerbury]

or instead of tipexing you could use the marks that ducati provided! :rolleyes:

[A Yerbury]

the official "change now" is every 18.500 miles for 95/96 whilst "check" is every 6200 miles. but we all agree tis better to be safe than F***ed

[madhatter]

[QUOTE] Oh!!........a "sticj"..........or "stijkt" as it is more commonly known in it's Swedish homeland......I did try to find if I could get a cheap imported one from Homebase, but they are only available from Ikea and are far to expensive, for the Honourable Cheapskate.....so it looks like it's a bit of 3x3 from Jewsons......[QUOTE]

Or indeed, on the ****ty end of the sticj!! :)

[Pedro]

Belt change is not really difficult just a bit of a fiddle. I can swap them in about 20 minutes from putting the bike on the paddock stand.

A couple of helpful thoughts:-

1. Make sure the engine is stone cold - I'm told the vertical cylinder in particular expands by aroun 2mm when hot which will make the belt tighter.

2. Take the plugs out, stick the bike in gear and rock the rear wheel to align the timing marks. The vertical cam will want to spin round under the pressure of the followers - I wedged it in place using a small piece of wood while I fitted the belt.

3. When setting the tension, you should just be able to lift the belt off the tensioner wheel - see www.ducatisuite.com for more info

Hope this helps

Ped

[Lona]

My bike has only done 9000 miles from new( Don't s!!!!!!, I bought it with only 6K on it!) so perhaps I was being a bit overcautious. In the other hand it is a 1995, so has presumably been stood around for much of its life.
I'm dead chuffed that I knew the answer to Scotty's question. I have seen the line-up marks for all three sprockets with my own eyes. See, I will be an mechanic one day! (That'll be sex mechanic!)
I'll check the number on the belts, to see if they are the right ones. Failing that i'll try the "blunt tool" (oo err) method
Thanks for the advice, though.

[Lona]

Well, that's interesting. The net nanny won't let me use one of the words in my previous message. It obviously thinks it is racial abuse, when in fact I am talking about laughing in a cruel way. Very strange!

[MotoNik]

The belts are pretty easy, as long as you're very careful and double check everything. Obviously the consequences of getting the job wrong are very expensive...

I used guidance from www.ducatisuite.com which was really excellent. Very good guide and excellent pictures to help you along.

A few useful things to know;

Get the bike on a paddock stand and take the spark plugs out. Put the bike in gear and by turning the rear wheel you can get all the timing marks lined up properly.

The rear belt is a bit of an arse as the top pulley wants to spring out of position - the closer spring on the desmo valvegear tries to rotate the camshaft, and you may find it useful to have someone hold the pulley in place for you (to maintain the timing mark position). I recommend long-nosed pliers for holding it - get the belt roughly in place and then use the pliers to rotate the pulley to the right position. The pulley nut has little notches in it which are ideal for long nosed pliers.

Also, getting the belts on to the pulley nearest the crank can be tricky as they have a lip. Put the belts on these first, and then put them on the cylinder head pulleys.

They do go though, and as a novice it only took me about an hour (and I've got a fairing to remove).

Usefull tip once you're done - with the spark plugs still out make sure you turn the engine over (using the rear wheel again) at least four times to make sure there are no nasty valve/piston interfaces going on. Once done you've got the confidence to thumb the starter and bask in the glory of your mechanical genius!

Final tip - spend a while checking the belt tension with 5 and 6mm allen keys (can't remember which belt is which, but it says on Ducatisuite), as that is completely key to the reliable running of the belts. You may think the belts are too loose, but they're not! Check them again after 100 miles or so, just for peace of mind.

Failing that I'd say you're looking at less than £100 (including the belts) for a Ducati specialist to do it for you. Ultimately, if you're not sure it's nice to let someone else have the "have I done it right?" stress!

Nik

[norrie]

I done the belts myself and found it very easy.
Our bike is a 600 but I cant see there being much difference.
The belts went on quite easily.
In fact the hardest part was taking the covers off and re-fitting them.

Norrie

[A Yerbury]

that can be a pain norrie and for that reason I have done away with the crap carb warmer hoses and have now run everything else including starter wire round the other side. a bit of a fiddle but the covers are bare now and look a lot nicer. finally ran the oil pressure switch wire under the forward cover. pics soon.
Alex

[madhatter]

Hmmmmm....sounds interesting Mr.Yerbury....I'm doing my belts tomorrow night with a "large sticj".....will you have you photos on then, or will they be like my invisible stripe photographs....I'd like to do this tidying up at the same time..... :D

[Wabbitkilla]

Well guys, belts changed, and Datatool Sys3 alarm fitted for £331.29.
The belts themselves were 25.94 for the pair plus 1 hour at £35 all plus vat.
That's not really all that bad!

Ducati Leeds.

[stevem]

Just changed my belts (M900) 1 hour!!
Half an hour of that wes removing & replacing the belt covers.
£34 for the parts & me happy!!!! :D

[berto]

;) Yeah that's about right ya miserable borders **** you could have come up to DucatiGlasgow and we would have changed them for you while you played with the pedestrian crossing button(borders playstation).Cheap b etc etc etc!!hee-ee shamon!

[Lona]

Why would I come all the way tae Glasgow when I have a semi-domesticated/semihousetrained husband to do stuff for me.
By the way, Berto,I don't know if you've made the connection yet, but Ian is the Moto Cifam agent who keeps trying to sell you wavey discs! (I want a set for my bike, they's luvverly!)
Also Berto, you are weegie scum, fancy taking the pee out of Ian's lovely XJ750 in the "For Sale" section. Why not chop your S4 in for the XJ (cash either way.) You know you want to!!

[berto]

:p You have been at the sheep dip again I see?????

[Lona]

:p You have been at the sheep dip again I see?????
Not a good idea round our way to smell too much like a sheep, unless you're on the pull.
Try spraying some on and wandering around my neck of the woods, you might attract that "burd" you're after. Alternatively you may attract a big hairy, claymore wielding Scotsman. Whatever floats your boat! :D

[The Kevlar Kid]

Just changed my belts (M900) 1 hour!!
Half an hour of that wes removing & replacing the belt covers.
£34 for the parts & me happy!!!! :D

Quick tip on changing the belts. On some Monsters (certainly on my 900ie, when you remove the covers and are lining up the timing marks, you will notice two small screws going though the side of the timing cover back plate, In fact the horizontal pulley lines up with this bolt (if I remember correctly). When you have lined up the timing marks and before you remove the belts, remove these two screws and replace then with longer ones of the same thread. When screwed in sufficienty these will locate in the back of the cam pulleys and lock them in position. You can then change the belts without worrying about these moving. Remember to swap the screws back for the original ones before you turn the engine over though......

I never seen this suggestion on any of the advice pages for changing belts and don't know why......

[Duke John]

Have u managed to get the belts on yet? On some 2 valve motors you do need to remove the belt pulleys from the the timing layshaft to get the belts on. You need a special tool to remove these, I have a spare one I'd be happy to loan you. Also, the belts on the later 600's and 750's are almost identical, but are one tooth less. You think you've got the right one but haven't. This recently happened to me with some belts bought from JHP in coventry. Not their fault I'm sure, just packaged wrong. The correct belts are part no.73710011A and should have 4002 as part of the number on the belt itself. If it has 4007, then you have the wrong belts. Call me if its any help
Regards
John Cellier aka DUCATI JOHN

[Lona]

If it has 4007, then you have the wrong belts. Call me if its any help
Regards
John Cellier aka DUCATI JOHN

Aha, light dawns. The ones I've got are 4007. I will get them changed by Spareshack.
Thanks everyone for all your help. Hopefully I'll be motoring with new belts before too long- keep your ears open for those Termis!! :D

[Jamcoly]

Quick tip on changing the belts. On some Monsters (certainly on my 900ie, when you remove the covers and are lining up the timing marks, you will notice two small screws going though the side of the timing cover back plate, In fact the horizontal pulley lines up with this bolt (if I remember correctly). When you have lined up the timing marks and before you remove the belts, remove these two screws and replace then with longer ones of the same thread. When screwed in sufficienty these will locate in the back of the cam pulleys and lock them in position. You can then change the belts without worrying about these moving. Remember to swap the screws back for the original ones before you turn the engine over though......

I never seen this suggestion on any of the advice pages for changing belts and don't know why......

2001.> models only

[slob]

... and check clearances on my 1997 Monnie which at 13,500 miles is naughtily pass it's 12,000 mile belt change.....
at 12K OR 2 years, it should be about ready for its fourth set Steve!

[MotoNik]

Aha, light dawns. The ones I've got are 4007. I will get them changed by Spareshack.
Thanks everyone for all your help. Hopefully I'll be motoring with new belts before too long- keep your ears open for those Termis!! :D

Hi Lona,

Just re-read your original post - I had precisely the same problem with new belts on my 900ss a few weeks ago (our bikes both use the same belts). Apparently there is a part number mistake on the Ducati fiche and it's entirely possible to get belts which are not the correct length. I did the same as you - counted the teeth (both the same), and the new ones were slightly too short to get on the pulleys.

In the end I took the belts back to the dealer, along with my original ones for comparison, and they swapped them out for some of the correct length.

It did make me wonder what was going on at first - I was starting to wonder if the old belts had stretched or something (they don't), but it turned out to be just a silly part number anomally.

Hope you get ot sorted.

cheers,

Nik

[Lona]

Hi Nik,
Stuart at Spareshack swopped the belts for me, and they went on OK. They got a good workout, as I did 850 miles in 4.5 days round the Highlands last month. Might pop down to the Lakes this weekend, if the weather holds.

[stef]

This looks like a classic thread in the making, it might even be worth reformatting it a linking it from a maintenance section on the links page.
volunteers ?

so here is my bit/question:
i did my belts at the weekend, on the 900. the first urdle was to get the tensioner bolts. they were very, very, very tight. they wouldnt move, so decided to run the engine for 5mins, to get the block warm. I still had problems taking them off, but eventually, i forced them out (I am pretty butch, you see). i was really worry of breaking them in the blocks though, they were that tight.
So my question is: is it safe/wise to coat them in copper grease ? I wouldnt want to have them come loose, but equally, i wouldnt want to break them off next time i do the belts..

The rest of the procedure was easy enough.

[MotoNik]

It's a good question - I've always found the same when undoing the tensioner bolts. They always seem bloody tight, and I'd hate to have one get stuck in the engine.

I've a feeling that I used a very small amount of copper grease, just enough to prevent any corosion, but not enough to promote any movement in the thread.

cheers,

Nik

[Pugi]

Oh!!........a "sticj"..........or "stijkt" as it is more commonly known in it's Swedish homeland......

Is not...
"Pinne" would be more accurate. If it's rough enough to qualify as a branch it's a "gren", unless small which would only be a "kvist". Beaten with a fancy one, aka a cane, is "rotting".

[retskcid]

I'm thinking I should change the belts now as I have no idea when they were done :on:

Anyone done them on the S4 - is it as easy as other models?

Great thread btw.

Cheers

Rich

[gary tompkins]

Rich,

I've not owned or maintained an S4 myself, just the A/C 2 valved monsters. I'm guessing the principal of the swap is exactly the same, with perhaps access being a little more difficult due to size of motor, and the routing of things like water pipes etc. Also there will obviously be an extra cam pully to line up on each cylinder, due to the 4 valve head layout.

As you have little service history for your S4, I'm guessing you won't know when desmo valve shims were checked either? This is another vital part of ducati maintainance, and not an easy task at all on a 4 valve engine. If you need valve shims adjusted (maybe by trained technician) you may as well get belts done then, as they need to come off to check the shims anyway?

What's the current mileage on your S4 by the way?

Maybe some S4 owning UKMOCers could contribute at this point...?

[Scotty]

i changed S4 belts once then took it to a dealer for peace of mind

id done them up too tight

with enough force you can get any size hex key to fit the tension gap ,not that I'm ham fisted or anything,

belts are no more difficult than a 2 valve (I imagine), though of the two cam pulleys one of them is sprung when every things lined up, which can make it a little tricky

[944]

I have just done the belts and checked valve clearance on my S4

Belts are easy, I did not feel the need to count teeth or mark up old belts as some people suggest. Just make sure the 4 cams and crank line up with timing marks.

I did not need to change any shims but would have considered head removal if I had many to do, some are very awkward to get at.

I think most people could cope with belts but seek advice on tensioning if you have never tensioned any belt before.

leave shims to the more competent.

Mike

[crust]

gives you an idea of the principles

www.tassell.co.uk

follow the biking links

then

Ducati 916 strada

:)crust

[retskcid]

More good 4v belt change info here:

http://www.ducatitech.com/4v/maint/belts/index.html

Mines done 16k - not sure when the clearances were checked :worried: