Help!! Cam Belts

[Roy]

I have recently learnt that my cam belt needs to be changed every two years. This with a complete service is going to cost £450.00 Ouch!! It is not that I do not trust my Ducati dealer but I wanted to know from any of you out there if what I am hearing is true. I know enough that Cam Belts have a life, but I am used to the fact that it is normally based upon miles (wear) and not time. I cannot believe in this day and age of advanced materials that a Cam belt would have a time limit. Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks in advance.

Roy

[Elmo]

I think Ducati means that the rubber of which the belts are made from starts to deteriate after 2 years

[M900Dom]

Do not ignore :eek:
Belts have a life used or not, the rubber degrades on exposure to air and sunlight amongst other things.
In fact little use over 2 years is worse for a belt than ragging the arse off it for 6000 miles :D

Belts on bikes that are not used, over time develop a "set" in them, as they are sat in one position under tension.

HTH and do not ignore..... £35/pair of belts is very very cheap insurance ;) :D
Cheers
Dom

[M900nster]

I don't know how many of these engines have suffered from a cam belt break, but I've been told that it does happen, and it makes an expensive mess. My ST4 has the same engine as your S4. The Haynes manual for the 748, 916 & 996 V-twins '94 - '01 also say's change the belts every 12,000 miles or two years. It doesn't look like a huge job but they recommend using a Ducati measuring gauge (88765.0999 or 051.2.001) or a belt tensioning gauge that Haynes themselves market, so unless you can borrow (or want to buy) the tool, you might as well get it done by your service mechanic.
I assume the service you've been quoted for includes checking the valve clearances. That too is a job you can't easily do yourself because you have to have several different sizes of replacement shims to hand. There's no getting away from it - these DOHC Ducatis are expensive to run while we're in the hands of the dealerships. We'll really be getting somewhere in this club if we can organise self-help maintainance workshops. In the meantime, shop around.
All the best
Henry

[Keabs]

Hi,

Don't think the 24-month service includes a valve check 'cos as opposed to belts that deteriorate over time, the valve clearance will only change with use, hence will only need doing after 12,000 miles . . . .

On the 4-valve bikes if you use the bike hard it's worth getting the belt tension checked and adjusted every 3,000 miles 'cos hard use stretches them quicker. If you're a "regular" user you'll not need them checked until 6,000miles.
If you need them done early, you should feel it, if you don't know how to feel it, you probably don't need them done until 6k. No offence.

[Zimbo]

As above, don't ignore, they do need changing.
If your bike is under warranty you're stuck with being stitched up by the main dealer on servicing, they're not cheap.
Once out of warranty ask on here for recomendations for an independant specialist local to you, they're much cheaper, and often better too.
I change my own belts every year, cost £40, it's not a difficult job. My bike sees an independant specialist for valve clearances, that's all.

[spacemonkey]

The 12k/2 year service should include belts AND valve clearances. These bike are very sensitive to valve clearances, I kid you not. The 6000 mile/1 year service includes belt tensioning, which again is essential. These babies aren't cheap to run and service, but you can't skimp on it. If you have a warranty still then you are stuffed and have to go main dealer. The warranty is very important as some bikes do go pear shape in an expensive way, so again it's not worth sacrificing for the sake of a few quid. If not then find a cheaper independent specialist who knows about Ducatis.

Count yourself lucky, I do over 9k a year... and still have a full Ducati service history!

[M900Dom]

Originally posted by M900nster
It doesn't look like a huge job but they recommend using a Ducati measuring gauge (88765.0999 or 051.2.001) or a belt tensioning gauge that Haynes themselves market, so unless you can borrow (or want to buy) the tool, you might as well get it done by your service mechanic.

Unless you have a 3mm allen key that is;)

Or on the 2V`s a 5mm allen key :D

You dont need the belt tension tool

Dom

[steviej]

Now, I'm no Top Flight Engineer (just an hairy arsed fitter) BUT..........................

I'm a little bemused by this 2 YEAR/12k miles life thingy, don't get me wrong I know composite materials degrade over time but TWO YEARS/12K MILES.

Example: my Afla requires a belt change at 72 months/72k miles. Many of you monsterers will own cars, have a sken at the time intervals between belt changes you'll see wot I mean..................

Now, from a mechanical point of view, they both (car bike) rev up to around the 8k mark max, albeit the car's belt is longer so's prone to more 'stretch'.............thats a lot o' difference between changes so WHY??
...........I reckon it's a scam, like a lot of other bike related bits and pieces, just mention to your non-biking mates how much you pay for Leathers, Helmets, Tyres, Exhaust, Servicing...........................they'd 'cak em selves'











I can feel egg coming my way, I'd better duck......................

[PaulS]

Whilst you do hear horror stories of the belts snapping if not changed as Ducati say (more likely on bikes that sit idle for long periods) I think the 2 year thing is excessive. I've just had the belts changed on my 2 year old 5k miles bike and the old belts looked much the same as the new ones apart from a bit of dirt. I used to own a VW Golf with a cam belt (as opposed to chain) and VW don't state a life in miles or years, it just needs to be checked every 40k miles. It had done 100k miles and was 10 years old by the time I sold it and the belt had never been changed. Perhaps Ducati should get their belts from the same source as VW!

[crust]

The Ducati belts I got were 'Gates', so could well be the same supplier to Volkswagen.

We use tooth belts at work on various machines, some last for ages/some dont. I've spoken to our supplier and to various people on websites and always get the same answer, better safe than sorry.

Dom from this site mentioned 'set' so I asked the beltman to ask his technical people for more info, this is what their advice was.

Have a look at the size of a car belt pulley, then compare it to the size of a bike belt pulley. The tighter the radius the more stretch the belt goes through as it passes round the pulley, a small change in diameter makes a significant difference to the degree of bend the belt goes through.

When you think about this its the same as changing gearbox sprocket versus rear wheel sprocket. Its well known that a smaller gearbox sprocket increases chain wear becauses of the greater rotation of the chain pins.

So when your bike is sitting, the portion of the belt around the pulley is being stretched more than a corresponding car belt. This is happening even though the engine is not running, so when you fire it up that particular portion will be looser.

The belt on your bike is a lot shorter than a car belt and so is a more likely to stop on the pulley more often than a car belt.

There was also speculation that as each cylinder has its own belt it might stop in the same place due to compression or at least in a couple of places so the stretch might occur in a few places on a regular basis. On a car with four or more compressions per revolution and a longer ( by two or three times ) the chances of the belt stopping in the same place were less.

At £25 or so a time and a couple of hours to do, is it worth the risk. Ducati must be aware of this as a negative factor in bike ownership so would advise a longer interval if they thought it safe.

I asked about higher spec belts, nope same problem. The solution I was advised was bigger pulleys or wider belts, not possible :(

:) Crust

[gary tompkins]

Crusty says...At £25 or so a time and a couple of hours to do, is it worth the risk. Ducati must be aware of this as a negative factor in bike ownership so would advise a longer interval if they thought it safe.

I'm with you all the way on this one mate, at less than £30 for a pair of belts and 1 1/2 to 2 hours to swap them I know what I would do. Try pricing up the cost of a top end rebuild (which will get trashed if a belt snaps) and it may make you change your mind? :eek:

Makes me chuckle that some people in the club would sooner spend £100 on a few carbon goodies, than getting worn belts swapped on thier motor :rolleyes:

[steviej]

Pass me a tissue please...................................there's egg on my face ;) ;)

[crust]

Originally posted by steviej
Pass me a tissue please...................................there's egg on my face ;) ;)

here, have one of mine, I dont need so many now I change my own belts ;) .

I know where your coming from, believe me, thats why I hassled the belt rep, seems ludicrous that car's service intervals are stretching longer by the year but Ducati's arent.

:) Crust

[Mr Kippa]

I Had the belts changed, plugs, filter and oil done for £125.00 all in at a local garage in Huddersfield. Do you think thats an ok price ???

[spacemonkey]

I Had the belts changed, plugs, filter and oil done for £125.00 all in at a local garage in Huddersfield. Do you think thats an ok price ???

Blimey! Not arf mate...

I always thought the 6k service intervals were a joke (especially for a high miler like moi) but i just been flickin' thru the rear of a bike comic and I couldn't believe that most Japcrap has intervals of 3-4000 and costs about £150 + parts. So ours aren't so bad after all...

[gary tompkins]

Mr Kippa,

It sure is a good price, a lot of "official" Ducati dealers would charge you that sort of money to swap the belts alone! :eek: Provided the work was done to a good standard, it sounds like you got a good deal.

You don't mention having the desmo gear checked or re-shimmed. Depending on the bikes year/model & mileage this could need doing as well, especially if it's on it's 2nd set of cam belts.

My own 900 had it's shims checked at 6K miles, and no adjustment was required, but at 12K miles at least 4 of the shims were well out of limits, and the engine was running rougher than a badgers arse :p

[Mr Kippa]

Gary, my bike is a 1998 600 and is running well sweet, do you think they should be checked anyway

[DesmoDog]

I Had the belts changed, plugs, filter and oil done for £125.00 all in at a local garage in Huddersfield. Do you think thats an ok price ???

Kippa, I would expect that they checked the shims as part of the service (I always have unwavering faith in mechanics :rolleyes: ), gearing would probably be a requested job. I'll be getting them checked in the after summer service anyway.

On price the first quote I got for service and belts tightening was circa £280, "it'll be, oh maybe a £100 more if the belts have to be changed". Thanks M&S! Found a local guy that used to work for M&S and has all the desmo training - £120, so you've done ok there and thank god we live in the North. ;)

[Mr Kippa]

That's one of the reasons I moved up north from south London

[gary tompkins]

Gary, my bike is a 1998 600 and is running well sweet, do you think they should be checked anyway

You didn't say how many miles the bikes done, so I can't really advise accurately. However, even if the bike is a very late 1998 model, the cambelts should have been replaced at least 3 times if sticking to the "12k miles or every 2 years" rule.

Quoted intervals for up to 95/96 model 600's, is for the shims to be checked (and replaced if required) every 6200 miles (10000km), but the interval for my own 2001 900ie is every 6000 miles (minor service) or 12000miles (major service) so it's best to check what your own handbook recommends.

[Little Monster]

thanks to this post, i asked about this when checking out who to do my 2 year service - ducati manchester and italsport both said the same thing. 2 years or 10k or 12k miles. better to go over on miles but not time cos as earlier posts are saying, it's the stretch that's the concern and the potential for causing kinks too. i mentioned the past service history said the belts had been checked and tensioned and italsport said you can't visually check so shouldn't be tensioning. quote for full service including belts change £250 incl vat with italsport.

[gary tompkins]

quote for full service including belts change £250 incl vat with italsport.

That's a very good price from Italsport for the full engine service compared to a lot of the Ducati main dealerships. You mention that the quotes inclusive of the dreaded VAT, but don't say if the quote includes all parts and consumables (plugs, belts, oil, filters, shims, collets etc..) too?

If not this could add plenty of cash to the finished bill :eek:

[jrpdark]

When I bought my 600 dark (from an independent dealer) it had already had oil and plugs etc done, but I was concerned about the belts so I paid my (then) local Ducati dealer £135 to change the belts, check the valve clearances and give the bike the once over. I was pretty pleased with that. St Neots Motorcycles, in, er, St Neots, if your interested (yes that is darn sarf).

Cheers

James

[Little Monster]

i think it included everything - it was a rough quote cos he wasn't entirely sure of part prices. i've slept since then tho ! tell you next week when he wants money off me.

[Wabbitkilla]

Having just bought my 900SS that's been pretty much stood still for the past year, and the advert read "belts & shims down at last service", I was surprised to find the service was in 2001, 2001!!
Anyway, Ducati Leeds are replacing the belts this wednesday, £35 for the pair and 1 hours labour. I thought it would be sensible to add fitting the alarm/imob. at the same time.
They appear quite flexible with servicing as you can mix&match different items at different times, so you can spread out the servicing and hence costs.
On inspecting the belts when I got home, I found the front has good tension whilst the rear can be pushed away from the tensioner pulley. So easy goes it, and it's only going as far as the dealers to avoid any serious worries about losing the valves / piston / top end!

Phew

[NattyBoy]

Shop around mate...I was getting quoted £230 for the first service on my S4R (essentially a check and an oil & filter change)..ended up booking it in to Bridge in Andover (auth. dealer) for £90 !!! Like most people im gonna have to bite my lip for 2 years for warranty reasons, but ducati dealers really take the p**s on £ and dont even do that good a job in my experience.

My 888 ducati mechanic has the bike in for a full week for a major service..collects it and delivers it back, cleans it all for under £400...and does an awesome job.

BTW...my mate had a 916SPS...was short on cash so left the belts for an extra 6 months. Cue a castle combe track day, a loud bang, and some very bent valves. Dont think he got much change out of £1800 to fix it. I think you get the gist :eek: :eek: ;)

Cheers
Nat

[steviej]

..........................quote for full service including belts change £250 incl vat with italsport.


Sue, just had mine done, 12130miles 1998 M750 at Italsports £348. :) :cool:

To confuse matters even more, when you e-mail them for a quote from their Website (http://www.italsport.net/), the reply is an automatic one. I did this and the quote was £250-£270. :confused: :confused: :rolleyes:



Just to add fuel to the 'CAM BELT' fire. This was the FIRST belt change...................... :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Wabbitkilla]

What Ducati Leeds (strangely it's actually a Bradford area, but Ducati Bradford doesn't sound the same), say is true about the pricing, a belt change only will be about £80 (prolly plus vat), so not too bad. I've changed the plugs oil & filter myself anyway.
The alarm is £250+vat fitted (datatool sys3), so pretty much the same as anywhere else.

T'would be nice to find an indie Ducati specialist, but they seem scarce around here.
Hobbsport are the closest thing, but boy can they be pricey! (They used to do work for Carnells, which to me isn't anything to brag about)

I know I'm doing the right thing about the belts and will set an appointement on my pc for 2 years time :burnout:

[A Yerbury]

a pc that works for 2 years, now that IS good. speaking of all things geeky I just changed my browser to mozilla after pop ups and hijacks on IE. quicker and more stable and only a 10mb file.
AY.

[manc skank]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Navy]Sue, just had mine done, 12130miles 1998 M750 at Italsports £348. :) :cool:




sheesh?!?!?! nearly £100 more than i paid for full service and belts and our bikes are siblings??? you have anything else done? :eek: :eek:

edit: i paid £267 inc. for 14000 service :cool:

[Wabbitkilla]

[QUOTE=manc skank]sheesh?!?!?! nearly £100 more than i paid for full service and belts and our bikes are siblings??? you have anything else done? :eek: :eek:

edit: i paid £267 inc. for 14000 service :rolleyes:

Where was than then, pray enlighten us oh wise one??

[manc skank]

Italsport :D

[steviej]

sheesh?!?!?! nearly £100 more than i paid for full service and belts and our bikes are siblings??? you have anything else done? :eek: :eek:

edit: i paid £267 inc. for 14000 service :cool:

:eek: :eek: F**K ME................:eek: :eek:


Rick, did you have the shims done ??

[manc skank]

alles bru, the whole shebang, shims, belts and what ever else they do..... :eek
ask sue, i think she paid along the same lines as me, same service?

[gary tompkins]

I know I'm doing the right thing about the belts and will set an appointement on my pc for 2 years time :burnout:

Hmmm.. nice idea if your a low mileage rider, but if I tried the same thing on my monster this set of belts will end up doing something like 20k miles - oops!

15k miles in 2 years and counting - how I love this bike :D

Sound idea to get the belts swapped on your motor though, as Natty Boy and others have said, the repair bill for a snapped belt would make you weep :eek:

[steviej]

:mad: :mad: Sick to death of the 12k miles/2 years debate..................................... :mad: :mad:








..........................debate ?? What debate ??

[Little Monster]

:mad: :mad: Sick to death of the 12k miles/2 years debate..................................... :mad: :mad:








..........................debate ?? What debate ??

hmmmm. yep, mank, i can't remember exact final figure but it as £250-£260 from memory. Bit of a massive difference between our costs and Steviej's. :confused:

[Pedro]

Sound idea to get the belts swapped on your motor though, as Natty Boy and others have said, the repair bill for a snapped belt would make you weep :eek:

Talking to a guy the other who'd had a belt snap - the bill was the wrong side of £800.......

Ouch!

[Wabbitkilla]

Well guys, it was £331.29 for the Datatool Sys3, and the belts.
That's £81 for the belts being changed - not that bad really!

[johnny k]

can anyone reccommend a dealership to buy cambelts from.
I am new to ducati ownership and have taken on a monster restoration.
I said i would never do another after the Matchless, but hey what are spanners for?

[Nickj]

Belts are really easy to change, and yep they can snap but its very rare.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9vzPZ84ZRjU is good

Line the timing markers up, dot the old belts with paint, old belts off. Count teeth, re align and slip them on. Tension then a few spins to confirm timing is good and your done 1/2 hr job.

[Sparky]

I use St Neots motorcycles for all my bits and there're probably the nearest dealer to you.

Chris

[CK & AK]

can anyone reccommend a dealership to buy cambelts from.
I am new to ducati ownership and have taken on a monster restoration.
I said i would never do another after the Matchless, but hey what are spanners for?

Go onto the Ducati website here:
http://www.ducati.com/od/ducatiuk/en/index.jhtml;jsessionid=1BP4S3AE4PD0MCRNCB2SFFAKFUI HUIV4

find the dealer locator on the left hand side & you will get contact details for all approved dealers and specialists around the country.
Most will do mail order - some give very good prices such as JHP (Coventry) & W.M.Snell (Hants) with next day delivery (as long as the post is being delivered!)

[johnny k]

Thanks for the advise.

I will E mail a few and see who comes up best.

Now while I`m begging advice and awaiting the arrival of a Haynes manual.
Can anyone tell me which markes to set TDC so as I can check the valve clearences.
Cheers

JK