S4 and S4R forks, is there a difference

[Terryphukwit]

Hi, apart from the gold sliders would anyone know if these forks are essentially the same, I am trying to buy springs and valves and they are not listed for the S4, only the S4R??
Thanks in advance for any help..

[jerry]

very different forks the S4r forks are 10mm longer same as 996 and superbikes also have full rebound circuit in them unlike the cheaper S4 ones...

[slob]

Are you sure Jerry? I thought they where just the same as ST4, ie like S4 but TiN finish instead of chrome.

[Darren69]

Are you sure Jerry? I thought they where just the same as ST4, ie like S4 but TiN finish instead of chrome.

I was of the same opinion but I could be wrong of course. my S4 Foggy has the Tin forks like the S4R ones and I had just made the assumption they were the exact same ones, although it makes sense that the ST4S ones might be re-sprung.

[Terryphukwit]

Thanks for the replies, if they are the same then there are many upgrades available, the S4RS was an Ohlins fork so completely different but I cannot see any differences in the S4/ S4R bikes or forks apart from the gold....Thanks..

[Luddite]

Are you sure Jerry? I thought they where just the same as ST4, ie like S4 but TiN finish instead of chrome.

A quick check of the Monster Bible shows the S4R forks have 130mm travel against the S4's 120mm.

The ST4 specs also show it to have 130mm of travel, so you're probably right about the S4R forks being the same as the ST4's, it's just that the ST4's aren't the same as the S4's :confused: (if the spec sheets are to be believed).

[Darren69]

I can confrim first hand that the Hyperpro springs/oil doesn't do very much to improve them. There are some off the shelf cartridge kits like Andreani available but I haven;t gone down that route yet but in theory that should go some way to improving them.

[jerry]

If u dismantle S4 forks the rebound needle is only for show it stops about 50mm down fork it does nought .. the 916,996 forks needle goes down all the way ,, is very effective im sure S4r used this fork not the nasty cheap ones on the S4

Both Ktech and HM racing told me the standard forks are a waste of space ,, I got a pair of 996 forks for £150 and had Ktech revalve them and put ohlins 8.5nm spring in total cost abot £450 but they work very well

I had wasted over £200 on the standard forks with hyperpro spings and other mods ,, wasted alot of time sold them to someone on her for £110

I believe that adreani now do a full kit for S4 fork that might be a good move ???

[Darren69]

Thanks for that Jerry. So do you kniow if S4R ones do have the rebound connected or are the same as the S4 ones?

[slob]

The superbike fork is quite different externally, with yoke fitting 53/53mm, whereas Monster/ST are 50/54mm, I suspect better internals on the superbike too. The big question is: is the outer tube longer to accomodate the extra 10mm travel. Single sided swinger bikes have a slightly higher seat IIRC, so maybe taller suspension both ends? Got your ‘bible handy still Vince? As others have said, spring rates may differ too.

[Luddite]

Single sided swinger bikes have a slightly higher seat IIRC, so maybe taller suspension both ends? Got your ‘bible handy still Vince? As others have said, spring rates may differ too.

Both models are shown as having 148mm rear wheel travel, Rob. So maybe the physical length of the forks are actually the same or perhaps the S4R's forks are pulled 10mm further through the yokes? :confused:

[jerry]

[QUOTE=Darren69;591930]Thanks for that Jerry. So do you kniow if S4R ones do have the rebound connected or are the same as the S4 ones?[/QUOTE

Thats a conundrum seen some S4r with the cheap crap forks and also some with the good forks , might be years of manufacture that matters ?????

[Darren69]

Yea, you would think that if they were going to the trouble of TiN coating then they would be the best quality ones with the best internals. But we don't know what kind of deal they did with Ducati to get them for a good price

I think the Andreani option would be worth looking into if you want to keep the original size forks but SBK ones would be the other option with a bit more work involved in getting them to fit.

[jerry]

Yea, you would think that if they were going to the trouble of TiN coating then they would be the best quality ones with the best internals. But we don't know what kind of deal they did with Ducati to get them for a good price

I think the Andreani option would be worth looking into if you want to keep the original size forks but SBK ones would be the other option with a bit more work involved in getting them to fit.

when I did mine the Adreani option was not available would be easier no yoke modes plug and play

[Terryphukwit]

It appears that Adreani do not do a kit for the S4, they list the S4r and the ST4, they also list the M900 and M1000, the guy at Brooks is checking with Adreani as he believes some of these have been discontinued. I can buy a set of M1000 forks new and have them converted for around 700, then hopefully sell my forks for around 200?? is all speculation until I know what is available. shame about the standard ones as the bike is great but the front is not good on A road bumps..

[Luddite]

It appears that Adreani do not do a kit for the S4, they list the S4r and the ST4, they also list the M900 and M1000, the guy at Brooks is checking with Adreani as he believes some of these have been discontinued. I can buy a set of M1000 forks new and have them converted for around 700, then hopefully sell my forks for around 200?? is all speculation until I know what is available. shame about the standard ones as the bike is great but the front is not good on A road bumps..

Looks like you could at least upgrade the compression circuit

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Andreani-Compression-Fork-Valve-Pistons-Kit-for-Ducati-Monster-S4-2001-01-05-/114892318874

and the springs

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ohlins-fork-springs-weight-90kg-for-ducati-monster-s4-2001-2005-/382392940986

which should provide a noticeable improvement in ride quality.

[Terryphukwit]

when I did mine the Adreani option was not available would be easier no yoke modes plug and play

Hi Jerry, how did you manage the size differences in the yolks. also I see chat on another thread about raising the rear to increase the rake, was his a positive move, thanks

[Luddite]

I see chat on another thread about raising the rear to increase the rake, was his a positive move, thanks

I'd treat anything you read in that thread with a pinch of salt, Terry! Raising rear ride height will reduce the rake angle not increase it. It will also reduce the trail so you'd get quicker steering with less stability.

[Darren69]

Raising the ride height by about 10mm will reduce the rear bias which I found the stock setting made the front a bit light and wayward in corners. It will reduce the rake but will make the front feel more planted (at least on the S4)

[jerry]

I originally raised ride height om my S4 at rear by 12 MM then down to 10mm but front was not very stable ,that was with the old standard forks with hyperpro springs

However , with the superbike forks dropped 20mm thru yokes front end is now 10mm lower and rear is lowered by 5mm bike is planted handles well but wobbles a bit abouve 120 mph which is hopefully cured when i fit new steering damper soon both feet on floor clearance is fine even cranked over bike is now 10mm lower overall rear shock is ohlins now

[Darren69]

I'd agree with Jeryy 10=12mm raise with the standard forks is better with the standard setup but it does show that the standard forks are crap but the bike appears to be much more stable mid corner and less likely to be feel vague and run wide and appear to head for the ditch with the slightest bumo in the road. So it feels more planted and way safer.

[Terryphukwit]

If u dismantle S4 forks the rebound needle is only for show it stops about 50mm down fork it does nought .. the 916,996 forks needle goes down all the way ,, is very effective im sure S4r used this fork not the nasty cheap ones on the S4



Hi Jerry, this confuses me, are you saying that literally the adjuster on the top of the fork is not attached to anything inside, turning the adjuster would have no affect on rebound damping???? Thanks...

[jerry]

Hi Jerry, this confuses me, are you saying that literally the adjuster on the top of the fork is not attached to anything inside, turning the adjuster would have no affect on rebound damping???? Thanks...

YES its a needle but only about 3inches long it cant do much at all .
In forks with a proper rebound circuit the needle rod goes all the way down about a foot it has a lot of control and adjustment

[Flip]

No suspension improvements are particularly cheap, coupled with the fact (as I and many others have done) you can spend a fair amount of cash and time and still have no significant results.

The ironic part is that it's the one thing that will make your riding experience sooooo much better - once it is right you will wish you'd done it ages ago.

But, changing just the fork workings or the rear suspension on their own will show up the others deficiencies hence why it can get costly.

It has been something like seventeen years since I had an S4 (along side my still owned 1997 900 and a SRAD GSX-R750WT) and I remember as standard it being better than the M900 but still nowhere near as good as the Suzook which I could take ridiculous liberties on.

The S4 was moved on relatively quickly as I preferred the old 900's air cooled quirkiness and so it began.

First in a series of attempts to get some feeling on the 900 was to pull the forks through the yokes and raise the rear ride height (90's/early 2000's Monters are notoriously set up like a chopper from the factory), then several trials of different weight fork oil followed a change of rear shock to a Nitron which was amazing (I still have it fitted) but only made the fork issues worse.

Until eventually after finding out through racing just how good a proper cartridge conversion can be, I handed over the old Marzocchi's to the folk at Maxton who worked their magic (and relieved me of a dollop of cash)- but what an improvement!!

A total revelation to ride, handling far better than a (now) twenty five year old motorcycle has a right to.

My advice to whatever changes you make would be- small steps unless you go the whole hog and replace the rear shock AND get professional work done to the forks (telling them what rear shock you have). Try to be methodical in your approach, write down the settings and test ride the same route making small changes each time so you know at what point it either feels better or worse and you can go on from there.

Good luck!

https://i.postimg.cc/fW5sYvs4/IMG_4053.jpg (https://postimg.cc/z3L4rK3p)

https://i.postimg.cc/N0t1BNvr/IMG-4690-Copy.jpg (https://postimg.cc/MnscYmTW)

[jerry]

On the S4 the standard Sachs rear shock is not that bad , its the standard forks that are poor ,, of course a nice after market rear shock will make a difference like the Ohlins on my S4 but its the forks that are the real problem and need to be tackled first ,, my standard 750ss and M750 are suprisingly good on non adjustable standard suspension ,, although I have now modified them a little as they components wear out

[Terryphukwit]

Hi, and thanks for your responses, I spent some time on the back end yesterday, after watching a few vids on Youtube and learning about static sag and rider sag. The shock had been wound up super tight on the preload giving no static sag at all, backed this off and now have 15mm static and 20mm rider sag total 35mm, apparently about right.. then checked the front rake with and without rider which was just over 25 degrees, book says 24 so lifted the rear by two full turns which now reads slightly over the 24 degrees. Rear adjuster was cranked down as far as it would go so not sure if this is how they are set at factory or if it has been adjusted before. Just need to take it for a ride now and see how it feels..

[Terryphukwit]

Hi, still looking at options around forks, been offered a pair of ST2 forks, these give 130 travel and have more upgrade options available, dimensions check out so they will fit ok, any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers..