Nearly finished…then set backs

[Ron1000]

So just about had the evo ready for it’s mot…then took a couple steps back.

The stupid fail: me snapping a bolt into the clamp for the clutch, not many options available for a fix…i’ve got a full tap and die set so I’ll try to salvage it and go a bolt size up if need be. Would anybody have a spare clutch master cylinder for sale :look:

And the dreaded rear brake fade issue has popped up but this time much worse. I suspect the master cylinder is failing, I’m going to bleed it properly; with the wheel off, calliper off, fresh fluid and so on. But with a broken elbow impact guns and so on don’t fill me much joy at the moment.

No matter, the little cbf will sail it’s mot mid February after which I’ll work on the evo aiming for mid march mot…if I miss that target the streety is ready for the road and only needs an mot so plenty options really.

[Darren69]

Is it a radial type master you need?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185270880196?hash=item2b230147c4:g:af0AAOSwbldh8WC g

[slob]

Do you have an automatic centre punch? the sort you press down to activate.
If you have a snapped bolt shank stuck in a hole you can sometimes start it out by punching it anticlockwise at the edge. Still leaving it punchable in the centre if it doesn’t work and you have to resort to drills and extractors later.

[Ron1000]

I’m going to pick up a auto punch today. The shank is in and recessed so I’ll try drilling it and getting an easyout in the drill hole.

Stupid stupid move by me. I took the clamp off as i was re-fitting the original bars (black rizoma ones just didn’t look right) i noticed the threads on one of the bolts were stripped so “found a replacement” in my big box of spare nuts and bolts…the one I fitted has turned out to be aluminium :shocked: unknown where it came from. As soon as it was nipped up in sequence with the other one…then final tightness quarter turn it just sheared off. :twak:

[Mark64]

At least if the bolt is aluminium, it will easy to drill, like Slob mentioned with the auto centre punch (good call) I have used a very small chisel or even a terminal screwdriver to 'drive' the offending snapped bolt out anticlockwise, spray with plus gas or similar penetrating oil, good luck.

[350TSS]

If you use the clamp as a guide and use a 6mm transfer punch (not expensive on ebay) you will get the centre of the bolt pretty accurately. With a 6mm bolt broken inside I would use a 3.5 or 4 mm drill. That way if it wanders you have a bit of leeway before you destroy the thread you are trying to preserve.
I have never had much success with hardened steel LH spiral threaded bolt/stud extractors. Fortunately its aluminium. Good luck

[Ron1000]

Not tackled the snapped bolt issue yet but had a look at the rear brake.

No joy sadly, I’ve bled it off and with nipple to the top and on with nipple to the bottom. Same results, no rear brake until i pump the peddle a few times. Beginning to suspect the master cylinder is the real culprit.

It’s annoyed me quite a lot because I’m now without an mot and can’t get one until i fix this brake issue. :mad:

[rollo22]

I have a set of left hand twist drills just in case this happens to me.

[Luddite]

That's frustrating, Ron :banghead:

While the master cylinder is an obvious suspect (see here):

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=57533

Did you try all the tricks I listed here:

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=58090

i.e. push the pistons right back into the caliper, raise the caliper above the ABS unit with the nipple uppermost and use a vacuum bleeder. DOT 5.1 is also worth considering (I used it last time and it's still perfect two years later).

Even if you do replace the master cylinder, you'll still need to do a successful bleed so I'd recommend adding a vacuum bleeder to your tool kit if you haven't done so already.

[Ron1000]

New rear master cylinder on order. They’re only £60 delivered for a brand new ducati one so i figured why not.

I’ll report back in due course.

Lud, only thing I didn’t have was a vacuum bleeder. I’ll add them to the tools list that only seems to increase and never decrease.

[Ron1000]

New master cylinder fitted. Pumps better, still pretty poor rear brake though.

Good of a rear brake do you need to pass an mot?

[Darren69]

I just needs to work and pass their brake test which as long as it works and unless the disk is warped you should be ok. BTW I still think the issue you are having is air in the system, rather than a m/c failure, so I would vac bleed or reverse bleed it if you can.

[Ron1000]

Thanks Darren,

I suspect you’re correct. I’m going to book in with my local ducati guy and see if he can sort it. In the meantime I’ll persevere and see if i get some sort of joy.

[Luddite]

New master cylinder fitted. Pumps better, still pretty poor rear brake though.

Good of a rear brake do you need to pass an mot?

Glad it's all back together, Ron. Since I did the 'proper' bleed, my rear will easily lock the wheel with ABS off so there should still be some improvement to come if you can remove all the air from the system.

That being said, you'll probably still pass the MoT as is since the rear brake only needs a 25% efficiency to pass. In other words, if the bike and rider weigh 240kg then, as long as it takes a forward force of at least 60kg to overcome the brake, then you'll pass. (Pump the brake pedal a few times before you hand it over to the tester.)

Good luck!

[crawsue]

Hi James, when the Leith guy did my 15k service he replaced all fluids, back brake was futile before...much, much better ever since. Does he not do MOTs? C

[Ron1000]

Hi crawsue.

Yeah he done mine and it was amazing…now the bike has pulled a classic ‘ducati rubbish rear brake’ trick on me. :chuckle:

I didn’t think he done mot’s tbh

[Ron1000]

Crawsue,

Tyler does do mot’s, he’s going to do the brake and mot for me now. That’s handy. :thumbsup:

[crawsue]

That’s a result, James.....give Tyler my best wishes. C

[Ron1000]

Progress today.

The clutch master cylinder issue has been fixed, I couldn’t get the snapped alu bolt out so i just drilled it and re-tapped it. Amazingly I have managed re-tap it back to original M6 size and saved (read did not destroy at all) the original thread material. So that’s it all back together.

The brake is a conundrum I’m thinking it’s the travel in the rod that actuates the master cylinder that’s the problem. I’ve bleed it again both off and above the master cylinder and on and below the master cylinder and no air bubbles came out. So with that in mind I’ve adjusted the rod length and i may have a passable brake now, only problem is that the lever has zero play in it and I’m not massively comfortable with that for fear of it dragging. I’m going to get a second opinion then get it mot’d and probably just set it back to ‘free play and rubbish brake’ to be cautious. It’s going to go in for it’s 22500 miles valves and belts service in 2000miles time so the ducati guy can look at it then.

[Flip]

If there’s zero play on the pedal it will almost certainly lock on when the fluid warms up during normal riding.

You definitely need some play before the actuator rod starts to move the piston.

[Luddite]

Glad the clutch issue worked out ok.

With the rear brake, did you push the pistons fully home before bleeding? I think you really need a vacuum bleeder to be sure of removing all the air, especially when you've replaced a component like the master cylinder.

Be especially careful and wary of overheating now you've wound out all the free play, the disc can overheat and bind really quickly, (I had it happen on my S2R when I replaced the footrests). Take it for a short run and check disc temperature when you stop. As I said earlier, the rear brake only has to be 25% efficient to pass the MoT so, as long as you've got pressure, you should be ok.

[Ron1000]

Coincidentally the mot service centre is a nice short run distance away. :cool: I’ll use it as a test to check brake temp/binding. Hopefully it’ll pass then I’ll give it some free play and live with it until the expert gets an eyeball.

[Darren69]

What others have said, if you adjust the rod to take out the slack then you should leave a little bit of free play or you could likely burn out the caliper seals, warp disk etc. there may be a free play spec but can't remember what it is but as long as your in the ballpack it shouldn't affect the brake action only the lever freeplay, which can be a matter of rider preference anyway.

[Ron1000]

Probably boring everyone now but update incoming :chuckle:

2nd opinion sought today and we’ve both agreed it’s not right. Also found weeping around the bleed nipple and slight weeping around one of the fluid galleries (after we split the calliper)

So yeah we both decided that a new seal kit is a good idea. So all fluid bled, calliper off and split. Awaiting the seal kit which comes with a new bleed nipple; I’ll report back after it’s re-built and tested.

Also found a mate who has a vacuum bleeder, I’ll borrow that for the new bleed process and see how it goes from there.

Fingers crossed; nice wee learning curve though, first time I’ve split a calliper.

[350TSS]

If the bleed nipple is leaking via the thread then some plumbers PTFE tape will sort it

[Ron1000]

New seal kit with new bleed nipple coming…probably be here mid week…hopefully that’ll resolve the issue.

Quite enjoying this learning exercise though.

[Ron1000]

Hey guy’s.

Brake now working. I’ve rebuilt the calliper with all new seals, banjo washers and bleed nipple…and it’s got a brand new master cylinder also.

I’ve managed to get a really pretty good rear brake now. It took a good wee while of bleeding but it’s there now. It’ll definitely pass an mot.

I’ve just got one last check and then I’ll be happy; just need to make sure the bleed nipple isn’t weeping…i might just be paranoid but I’m going to keep an ye on that. If it’s not then job done, if it is then I’ll get ptfe tape and try again.

I tried a mates vac bleeder but i think there’s a bit missing as it wouldn’t build any pressure. So just done the old fashioned way.

[Mr Gazza]

Carefully putting a couple of turns of PTFE on the bleed nipple is good practice from a new installation. Not so much to ensure no leaks of air or fluid when tightened up, but it helps to prevent air from re-entering the caliper via the thread when you are actually bleeding.

I think it was Luddite that pointed that out a few years ago, so I adopted the practice and can verify that it does make bleeding a lot more effective and quicker.

[Ron1000]

Brake no leaky. :thumbsup:

Took it for it’s mot today aaaaaaaaaand failed :chuckle:

Front wheel bearings are shot. I’ll get that sorted and I’ll be good to go.

[Albie]

Carefully putting a couple of turns of PTFE on the bleed nipple is good practice from a new installation. Not so much to ensure no leaks of air or fluid when tightened up, but it helps to prevent air from re-entering the caliper via the thread when you are actually bleeding.

I think it was Luddite that pointed that out a few years ago, so I adopted the practice and can verify that it does make bleeding a lot more effective and quicker.

I have to admit I love doing brakes and clutches now. I say now but at my workplace using the air to suck it all through. It seems I am very capable and trusted with them jobs . It's an advantage but most vital to have the right gear. At home I had a pressure hand pump gun that was ok but not completely great. If anyone does have a compressor get a bleeding kit as an accessory it takes minutes.

[Luddite]

Brake no leaky. :thumbsup:

Took it for it’s mot today aaaaaaaaaand failed :chuckle:

Front wheel bearings are shot. I’ll get that sorted and I’ll be good to go.

Good news about the brakes, bad news about the bearings - but easily fixed. You were talking earlier about powder coating the wheels so maybe now's the time!

[Ron1000]

I’ve got a question about bearings guys.

They are always something that have passed me by as such; just never really had any bother with them or on the one occasion i can remember the service guys sorted it for me.

So I’ve phoned a local shop to do the bearings and they’re wanting go with non-ducati bearings. My understanding being that bearings are essentially made to a bearing size/standard/standard fitment?!?!?

Does that makes sense?

[Luddite]

Most of the bearings you'll find on the bike are standard sizes and can be sourced from a bearing factor. (There can be exceptions, such as the double width timing belt bearing, but they're rare.)

You just need to ensure you get the same size (ID x OD x W) and specification (eg sealed/unsealed, lubed, etc ).

When you remove the old bearings have a look on the body and you may see the bearing code number.

The Evo's front wheel bearings are 25mm x 47mm x 12mm and are single row deep groove type. The four digit bearing code is 6005 - in this case, the 60 signifies 'single row deep groove' and the 05 gives the internal diameter (multiply the number by 5 to get the ID of 25mm).

The bearings also have seals on both sides with the grease sealed in for life (2RS or DDU depending on manufacturer).

So you want a 6005 2RS/DDU bearing 25 x 47 x 12.

And don't forget the separate dust seals!

PS when removing/refitting the bearings, warming the area with a hot air gun will help and when fitting the replacements pop them in the freezer overnight and they should slide in nice and easy.

[Ron1000]

The final post…I did not expect this topic to be three pages long. :chuckle:

Bearings in, wheel on and away to it’s mot today…passed this time.

It was a longer journey than expected getting the bike ready for the new season but ready it is.

Thanks guys.